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PaperclipPerfector  14d ago (text post)   2458 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for February 7, 2025

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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Lou Reed was ridiculously consistent in his quality as a songwriter. "Metal Machine Music" was experimental and "The Bells" was lower quality, but other than those two albums, every song through 1984 (I haven't yet listened past then) was at least pretty damned good.

If you get to his later work - definitely worth skipping his Metallica collaboration. Notably terrible

Yeah, I was already going to pass on that - Metallica deserved their fifteen minutes of fame... but only those fifteen minutes. I'm looking forward to hearing "Mistrial" and "New York," though, since "New Sensations" was remarkably strong, 12 years after his debut albums.

PhysicsForums and the Dead Internet Theory

https://hallofdreams.org/posts/physicsforums/

This isn’t fun at all! But it is unsettling, and I do think it’s relevant to the AI discussion going on here.

I hate that most such conversations immediately devolve into thought-terminating cliches. Why have a serious argument when one can just accuse people of liking “slop”? But I hate the idea of an endless bot circlejerk more. This article is a pretty tasteful way of describing the discomfort without sounding like a Luddite.

"Dead Internet Theory" wasn't an instruction manual! 😭

Literally the Torment Nexus meme.

Fascinating! And deeply creepy. If old internet posts can and will be replaced by LLMs.... oof I don't even want to think what might happen to the information landscape.

Any more blog posts or writings on this?

Only found it on Twitter I’m afraid.

Thanks, fascinating read.

Absolutely fascinating. I can't figure out a reason why the admin would do something like this. Even if he's trying to pump up user numbers on the forum for some reason, I don't see why he would be backdating the posts. If anything, newer posts are better for creating the appearance of activity.

When did you first realize your parents had grown old? It's such a gradual thing that it really sneaks up on you.

For me it was when my mom meekly endured some bureaucratic altercation. She had always had a steel backbone and no reverse gear, somewhat like Thatcher, so watching her cave in like that was quite a shock to me. I realized that I no longer had a barrier troop that would not allow me to retreat in the face of adversity, all my courage now had to come from within. On the contrary, it was I who would have to look out for them from now on.

When my they started to let stuff go instead of putting their foot down.
When they lost track of politics and kept repeating and arguing against 10+ year old talking points.
When they quit competing with me physically (running, lifting).
And gray hairs, of course.

My father passed when I was eight, and my mom gave birth to me when she was 42. I sort of always felt like my parents were old.

Part of the reason I think we should encourage people to have kids young.

When I overheard another pair of doctors telling each other "SMH's dad is a good surgeon, but he just can't keep up the speed he used to. You should have seen the way he operated 15 years ago." Or when I saw him reduce his working hours/caseload from 'insane' to 'more than I would personally care for' as he just couldn't physically stand around for >12 hours a day.

Human fluid intelligence declines from 25 onwards, but your accumulated skills and knowledge compensate till your 40s. After that, your body and brain will give out eventually. Thankfully my parents have their wits about them, and being doctors, are capable of attending to their own health.

Human crystalline intelligence declines from 25 onwards, but your accumulated skills and knowledge compensate till your 40s.

Yah, I remember stuff I used to do for fun in my early 20's. Like folding an origami icosahedron from first principles during my lunch break. It's probably easier to repeat this than I think, but I wouldn't do stuff like this for fun today.

My old man's meniscus finally wore out in his early 80s, and suddenly he wasn't running down to his garden any more. That's the one thing that really drove it home that he was only going to get weaker every year, because now there were hard limits on what he could do. No more long walks, trips he had planned, or big projects we were going to do together.

He's turning 90 this year, and now that his heart is slowly starting to go he's having a harder time splitting his firewood and hoeing the smaller replacement garden patch on his front lawn. He gets overwhelmed doing his taxes now, so I took that over a few years ago.

I hope I'm splitting firewood when I'm 90. Based dad.

That's a tough one. My dad was always kind of a couch potato, and basically the only thing he ever really did was golf. If he wasn't golfing, he was on the couch drinking a Coors Light. In terms of activity level, he always seemed old. He had these gnarly scars across his belly from a car wreck he'd gotten in when he was younger, and he'd already has his gall bladder out from the accident before I was even born. He kept a roll of tums in every room of the house, the cars, and his golf bag. And generally he was always too tired to play with us from commuting 90+ minutes each way to work, starting at 5 am.

All that said, one year when I came home from college he seemed even more tired than usual, and rapidly graying. When I went back to college after that break, I had these incredibly vivid dreams about him dying.

Turns out he was in rapidly advancing liver failure. Inside two years he was dead. He was 56.

My wife is struggling with her parents getting older. They are both getting much further up there, into their late 60's and mid 70's. They've both had cancer, her dad has one kidney, and they are both experiencing cognitive decline, her mom a lot more than her dad, but still both. We try to have them play with their grandkids as much as possible, and my daughter loves her grandma. My wife's father suffers from a bit too much TDS for things to be comfortable when he comes over. Always tries to rub my face in something political, or diverts every conversation into how evil the Republicans are. The TDS has more or less completely coincided with his cognitive decline, and the more TDS he gets, the more he forgets simple things like what his grand daughter is allergic to, conversations he's had with my wife, etc.

My wife's father suffers from a bit too much TDS for things to be comfortable when he comes over. Always tries to rub my face in something political, or diverts every conversation into how evil the Republicans are.

That's not even TDS at that point, it's just plain rudeness. I'm sorry to hear your FIL acts like that, I can imagine it's tough.

For my mom, it was probably the last time I was there when my parents were hosting an event. My mom isn't that old (she's 64), but she has had congestive heart failure for the last 7 years, and it has sapped her energy. When playing hostess she used to be a tireless force of nature who made sure everyone got more than enough to eat (I'm sure you guys know the type). Now, she gets winded after doing only part of the cooking for the guests, and pretty much crashed and I had to step up to fill the gap. Which I don't mind doing, but it's sad to see Mom that way. She still has the same personality, but her body just can't keep up any more.

For my dad, I guess it was when I realized he turns 70 soon (2027). That to me is kind of crossing the Rubicon of old age. Dad will stop doing things when they throw the dirt on him (and maybe not even then), but I can't deny any more that he's getting old and that I'm going to lose him sooner rather than later.

Jamming to kanye since graduation is a good album and his twitter antics are a once in a lifetime weird bizarre internet meltdown. Jokes aside, it is spring here in Jaipur, the weather is warming up, polo season is gonna end soon, spring is awesome.

I play a weird sport called underwater hockey. I've mentioned it before. But that's not the fun part for this post.

There is a Turkish guy that occasionally plays with us. How do I know he is Turkish? Because he tells me and everyone he meets in just about every conversation.

He starts most of his introductions to strangers by guessing what nationality they are from. He is pretty accurate most of the time. But also it's a hilarious form of interaction to see in modern day America, where ethnic origins feel like a slightly taboo topic. I'll admit to feeling a little jealous.

His accent and clear foreignness helps him get away with it I think. Or maybe I could get away with it too and I just haven't tried the strategy of "guess their nationality" as an ice breaker. It also maybe ironically helps that he is a clear Turkish nationalist. He earnestly believes that Turkey is the next great up and coming country, and that I should look into investing in companies over there. Turkey is also going to do great in the next Olympics and world cup, or so he tells me. I should also consider visiting there on my next vacation, it's a beautiful country.

He makes me smile, but he also does a damn good job of recruiting random strangers. Remember how I said I know him through underwater hockey? Yeah he somehow convinces people to play this sport while hanging out in the hot tub before practice. We could use some more people to play with us. Maybe I should be a Turkish nationalist.

His accent and clear foreignness helps him get away with it I think .... He makes me smile, but he also does a damn good job of recruiting random strangers ... he somehow convinces people to play this sport while hanging out in the hot tub before practice

Man, the shit I've seen.

This is a thing and will likely remain a thing for a long long time if not forever. I can't complain because I've exploited it. I don't know how I wasn't knifed in some places. Not for nationalism, but stupid jovial traveling.

He earnestly believes that Turkey is the next great up and coming country

They had some successes recently, but a sharp turn to islamisation that Erdogan took may eventually take it to the direction of Iran. On one side, Iran is still a power to recognize, on the other - they spend a lot of money on fighting West and Israel and it won't end well for them, eventually.

It's a great place to go as a tourist. It might be a muslim country, but its not too-muslim. (The first cab-driver I met had me taking shots of his moonshine in the back of the taxi-van.) The vibes in the western part of the country are more like Greece. Lots of Roman ruins to see (Ephesus), there's also a place where a water spring with high calcium content comes out at the top of a hill and covers the entire hill with calcium formations, very scenic.

I have continued to play around with Udio music generation recently, and the stuff it spits out is... disconcertingly high-quality. Its auto-generated lyrics continue to be truly awful, though, so what I do to circumvent having to rely on Udio lyrics or write my own is to ask it to generate a song in Japanese, a language where the insipidness of the lyrics will be lost on me. It absolutely nails the musical aspects of its generations, though; I often like the musical content far more than I do many actual songs.

There's still some artifacting in its generations, but on the compositional level alone it's begun to ape human-created music so well that I think it clearly passes the musical turing test. If it managed to improve the fidelity of its generations and had a lyric generator that wasn't so trash I can see this being a dangerously addictive superstimulus for me. It's easy to fall into states wherein none of the media out there seems to appeal to you, and with generative machine learning the solution to that kind of malaise becomes "just prompt until the prediction machine spits out something you like". It feels utterly solipsistic and also very tempting at the same time.

Here are a number of funk/jazz fusion generations I got over the past couple of days:

https://voca.ro/1kaIduRHpYT1

https://voca.ro/15UbDIfpljpH

https://voca.ro/162be1cbaoaT

Is it just me or are these generations, musically speaking, genuinely really decent? They're still slightly genericised, but no more so than most music out there, and I was not expecting its generation ability to get this good this fast. Despite the fact that I am not an amateur when it comes to music, I like these, and this is something that makes me think that perhaps my music taste has been irreversibly broken.

The first song I consider to be really bad.

The second has a nice bass line that I would be happy to steal wholesale. Much more impressive.

The third one didn't seem any good, either. Sure, it's a simple beat and chord changes, but that's much less impressive than a melody, or funky base line.

Can it output sheet music? Can it output notation? Part of the problem is the synthesizer isn't that great. Ideally it would output notation is something like Frescobaldi.

Can it write a melody for me? Can I give it a melody and have it write counterpoint? While it's interesting to give it words and get out sounds, I'm more interested in including music (notation) and getting music (notation) back.

Can it output sheet music? Can it output notation? Part of the problem is the synthesizer isn't that great. Ideally it would output notation is something like Frescobaldi.

No, and it fundamentally can't right now. Those models are trained on raw music, not on notation. During creation, the model isn't "composing" like a human would, in the same sense that an image model isn't actually sketching, drawing and painting - the final image is directly condensed from the diffusion process.

But this is clearly the next step in the value chain. Once audio creation models can input and output notation, they will completely change the creative process - in the same way that video models will become valuable once they can input and output an entire 3D scene into/from Blender. But this step is difficult, there is orders of magnitude less training data in all those cases (you need specific sets of music + notation, video + 3D models, ect.

Music is, of course, simpler than 3D in this aspect. You can run AI audio creation through the usual transcription aids or quickly rebuild a beat you like in Abelton by ear/hand.

Do you know how viable it would be for an AI model to be able to "reverse engineer" sheet music from an audio file? Knowing very little about music myself, my intuition is that one could train a model with lots of sheet music-audio file pairs and then feed it the latter to generate the former, but I could easily be missing some hurdle that would prevent this from being viable.

my intuition is that one could train a model with lots of sheet music-audio file pairs and then feed it the latter to generate the former

Yeah, that's the way. Once you run out of training data, you can probably also do self learning by transcribing music without available sheet music, transforming the generated notation into sound through a synthesizer, compare the results (this needs another model) and then try again. Once you run out of music, you can continue with synthetic data (since current models can already make fresh sound files of high enough quality).

The devil is in the details, of course, e.g. current software transcription aids work much better for solo piano than for any other instruments (there not many different ways to modify the sound of a note on a piano). Guitars, on the other hand, are notoriously hard to transcribe. They kind of make up for it by having tabs available for a million songs, so at least there's a lot of training data. But the relationship between tabs and final sound is much less straight forward than for piano.

Text -> Image -> Spritesheet -> 3D Model models are actually already here. They're just pretty bad at giving you usable topology, but you'll probably begin seeing AI generated assets in production games inside a few months. Not big or moving stuff, but static medium poly assets like crates or plants.

There's a few on huggingface, and an integration called BlenderGPT they're working on.

Different strokes I guess. I'm also not primarily evaluating if the exhibited technical/music theory prowess of the songs in question are particularly impressive - most music isn't particularly rich in complex composition, and mediocre music is inevitably going to represent a large part of Udio's dataset. I consider all of the linked songs to be about on par with a lot of the music that gets released. Instead, I’m evaluating on the basis of “could this be a song that I’d hear out in the wild?”

I'm more interested in including music (notation) and getting music (notation) back.

Ideally, that'd be the goal of a machine learning-driven plugin. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any notation-producing ones worth their salt yet, but I do know that there are a number of very competent plugins which have focused on the generation of sound design.

How long is it going to be before video games start including fully dynamic soundtracks? Divinity Original Sin 2 did it a little bit (swapping out instruments based on the character focus), but there's room for a lot more than that, particularly if it's in realtime.

(See also Vaudeville for AI-based dialogue)

Also, how long before they get past one terabyte of data?

I think we're at like 300 gb on the very largest games? I doubt we'll hit 1 tb in at least the next 2 or 3 years, and we'll likely see game sizes drop or stabilize as neural textures or even full-on neural rendering takes off.

Didn't https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_(video_game) have some interesting ideas about dynamic soundscape?

As for 1TB games - those won't be for me and my stone age machine.

I've played a few hours of Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 (apropos favorite weapons). It's much better optimized than the original was, and looks better. Putting my new GPU to use. The intro/prologue drags on a bit, but overall I'm impressed and looking forward to spending a lot of time in this world. The historical accuracy is a plus.

I thought the first one was merely OK and given that my pc is a bit old, I think I'll wait a few years and play this when it's patched and complete.

I sitll haven't finished the first one because I just plain tired of the RPG game structure and the moment-to-moment gameplay did nothing for me while the plot seemed...oddly paced and meandering. Given all that, is there any point in my spending 60€ (!) on KCD2?

My brother-in law made a wish for KCD2 as a birthday present. Maybe he'll get one and I'll get one too while I'm at it. But not sure about that yet.

If you don't like KCD1, you won't like KCD2.

KCD1 after patching is still a pretty good game and KCD2 90% pattern matches to it.

I'm about 15 hours in. Somethings are much better than the first, but there are small annoying bugs in some places. While the story is good, its meant to be an immersive sim and I hate being railroaded through a prologue that lasts several hours. Same as the first game I guess.

As soon as the prologue finished I cracked my knuckles and began my crime spree. Books, Weapons, Money, Horses, I've pilfered everything I can get my dirty little hands on. I can see why they separated the game into two open world areas. They don't want people like me robbing the game's best merchant for the best equipment asap, making loot progression meaningless.

Despite the above, the game is great and a game of the year contender, only being held back by its limited appeal. Story is amazing. I really appreciate the writing and colourful language.

The controversy around KCD 2's DEI insertion could use its own top level comment in the culture war thread, but I don't have time to do it justice right now. The game's fine.

AI can be fun too. Grok seems to have real-time access to the internet / the motte.

Asking Grok, 'What person from history most matches views expressed?'

Given the breadth of topics @hydroacetylene engages with on The Motte and the analytical, sometimes contrarian approach to discussion, one historical figure they might most closely match in style and substance is Voltaire (François-Marie Arouet, 1694-1778).

Based on the views expressed by @AvocadoPanic on The Motte, particularly regarding the interpretation of Christian teachings and a critique of modern interpretations of Jesus' actions and words, one historical figure whose views might resonate is John Calvin.

Given @Amadan 's sharp wit, engagement with philosophical and ethical questions, and a penchant for challenging the status quo or popular narratives, a historical figure they might resonate with is Diogenes of Sinope.

I guess as a fan of stoicism, I'm cynic-adjacent and Diogenes does resonate. But I can't take this very seriously, it looks kind of like an astrological reading (something flattering yet vague enough that it could match to almost anyone).

Grok seems to be schizophrenic when it comes to me. I put in the prompt and asked it to analyse my posts on TheMotte, and asked the question three times. I got Herbert Marcuse the first time (lol), Thomas Sowell the second, and George Orwell on the third go. These are all people with wildly varying politics on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Then I asked it to give me an ancient historical figure and it spit out Thucydides.

Don't have Twitter, would you mind asking about me?

Sure thing. I asked Grok to cite examples from your posts.

If I had to choose one historical figure whose ideas align most closely with ArjinFerman's posts based on the information provided, it would be Ivan Illich. Here are some samples from ArjinFerman's posts that support this connection:

Critique of Modern Technological Systems: "I can actually agree with some of the Ludditism, but I'd argue we need to go back to 1920 or so and ban all sorts of propaganda, mass media and advertising." This reflects Illich's critique in "Tools for Conviviality" where he advocates for tools and systems that enhance human autonomy and creativity rather than those that lead to dependency or dehumanization. Skepticism Toward Institutional Growth: "I didn't really make up my mind how far back to turn the clock to, but I like the way you think." Here, ArjinFerman expresses a desire to undo some advancements, focusing on the negative impacts of institutionalized technology, similar to Illich's views on how institutions like schools and healthcare systems have grown beyond their beneficial limits. Desire for Societal and Technological Conviviality: The mention of Ivan Illich directly in one of the posts, "Have you read this book by Ivan Illich? ... I think I only saw references to Illich from other writers, but I never read him directly. The wiki synopsis is very interesting, definitely sounds like a man after my own heart." This shows a clear alignment with Illich's philosophy, particularly his idea that technology should serve to make life more convivial, not more controlled or oppressive. Critique of Consumerism and Propaganda: "I think technology should be developed in a way that helps us grow as people, rather than makes us succumb to naked consumerism." This echoes Illich's concern over how modern technology and institutions can lead to a form of social control rather than liberation, a theme central to his works like "Deschooling Society" and "Medical Nemesis".

These samples illustrate ArjinFerman's alignment with Illich's critique of modern institutions, technology, and the need for a return to or development of systems that enhance human conviviality and autonomy. While ArjinFerman might not strictly adhere to all of Illich's ideas, the spirit of questioning the unchecked growth of technology and its societal implications is quite evident.

Thanks!

Meh... Like Grok says, someone already recommended Illich to me, under the very post he's quoting, so not really a new insight.

New insights from AI may be asking too much. I think it may look at very few posts.

Here are three historical figures with brief examples from ArjinFerman's posts:

Aldous Huxley: Example: "I can actually agree with some of the Ludditism, but I'd argue we need to go back to 1920 or so and ban all sorts of propaganda, mass media and advertising." - Reflects Huxley's warnings in "Brave New World" about control through media and comfort.

Jacques Ellul: Example: "I think technology should be developed in a way that helps us grow as people, rather than makes us succumb to naked consumerism." - Mirrors Ellul's critique of technology dominating human life, as discussed in "The Technological Society."

Herbert Marcuse: Example: "I like the way you think about going back to a time where technology wasn't used to manipulate us." - Aligns with Marcuse's critique of one-dimensional thought and the manipulation of needs in "One-Dimensional Man."

New insights from AI may be asking too much

I dunno, somewhere in it's training data there should be something I haven't heard of. I'd even say the Jacques Ellul connection counts.

I think it may look at very few posts.

It turns out that Deepseek now also has a search option, and that seems to be one of it's limitations, it just looks at the latest posts. By contrast Grok seems to be obsessed with that one comment of mine. I wonder if it parses the upvotes, or AAQC's.

Ha I like this! I got Murray Rothbard.

I asked for other close matches,

  • Lysander Spooner
  • Ayn Rand
  • Ludwig von Mises
  • Friedrich Hayek
  • David D. Friedman

And now I'm blushing.

It gave me Thomas Sowell, and when I asked for others it suggested Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman. Apparently I missed my calling as an economist.

They all seem pretty generic fortune cookie cold reading. Can you press it for quotes to see if it's hallucinating?

You can, I did for myself. At least for me it wasn't a hallucination.

I wouldn't necessarily know if it was hallucinating for others.

Content of Posts: AvocadoPanic has commented on: The portrayal of Jesus in Christianity, particularly critiquing how "Big Eva" (likely referring to big evangelical organizations or the mainstream evangelical community) might present a one-sided view of Jesus, focusing on love and forgiveness while omitting aspects like justice or the more stringent parts of biblical teachings. The interpretation of Jesus's teachings regarding stoning or the law, especially in discussions around 'Love your Neighbor' and the balance between kindness and judgment. They argue that Jesus's message is often simplified or misinterpreted by contemporary Christianity.

Really? Voltaire? Wouldn’t have picked that one in a million years.

You can ask Grok the same thing thing about x users.

It said my wife's posts were most similar to Goebbels, pushing back a bit it said Spengler.

What kind of prompt gets that output?

After it said she was Goebbels, I told her to tell Grok that calling her a nazi was an anti-German slur and to try again. It apologized and said Spengler.

What historical figure is @FromKulak most similar, cite examples or quotes from tweets.

Based on the themes and sentiments expressed in @FromKulak 's tweets, one could draw a parallel to Thomas Carlyle, a 19th-century Scottish historian and essayist known for his critique of society, his admiration for strong leadership, and his often controversial takes on various issues. Carlyle was known for his concept of the "Great Man" theory, where he argued that history is shaped by heroic individuals. Here's how some of @FromKulak 's tweets might resonate with Carlyle's philosophy:

Critique of Modern Society: Carlyle was critical of the industrial age and the moral decay he perceived in society. Similarly, @FromKulak 's tweet about the "enshitification" of stores with unnecessary items reflects a critique of modern consumer culture, akin to Carlyle's disdain for the materialism and superficiality of his time. Call for Strong Leadership: Carlyle admired figures like Oliver Cromwell and Napoleon Bonaparte for their decisive and transformative leadership. @FromKulak 's references to historical figures like Trajan, Alexander the Great, and Henry VIII in a positive light suggest a similar admiration for leaders who, in his view, took bold actions to reshape their societies or empires. Moral and Social Commentary: Carlyle often commented on the need for moral reform and the role of individuals in society. @FromKulak 's mention of justice and the lack thereof in modern contexts echoes Carlyle's concern for moral order and his belief in the need for strong, perhaps even harsh, measures to maintain or restore it.

Well…was it right?

Wasn't wrong.

Time for another tv recommendation: Severance. In my opinion it's the first show in a while that quality-wise stands among the other greats of the "golden age of television"; or at least it has done so far. It has an interesting combination of dark comedy, satire, character work, and philosophical introspection with a heaping dose of mystery. If you're unaware what the show is about or have heard nothing about it, here's a teaser; I wouldn't seek out more for fear of spoilers.

It was a long, long gap between seasons 1 and 2 (the former aired near the end of 2022, the latter is airing now). But it's the first sort of "appointment viewing" for me and my friends in a while, and we've decided to get together as a group every other week or so and watch the new episodes. It's nice to experience these things with other people and it's the kind of show that very much benefits from group discussion/reflection.

Watched a few episodes, and I am not sure whether I am going to continue - it's way too creepy for me. I'm pretty immune to displays of physical horrors, but psychological torture kinda gets to me, and I am unable to derive any enjoyment from observing other humans suffering. It may all be redeemed by the well crafted mystery and satisfying (or properly and insightfully unsatisfying) ending, but it's too early for the latter and so far I can't make any sense of the former.

I watched S1 a while ago, and I just couldn't understand the hype. The basic premise and mystery seemed interesting enough, but they didn't really explore enough to carry an entire show. The cast of characters could've carried it, but they just didn't, and I found myself just not caring about them, especially involving that romantic subplot with Christopher Walken's character. The strongest part was probably with that woman early on in the season exploring the premise as sort of the audience-surrogate rookie entering the job for the first time, but even that felt stronger on shock value than actually playing with the premise interestingly. In the end, I think I wished that S1 had been the first third of a season, setting up things for actual story that used the premise in a fun way.

Severance is an extremely valuable tool for teaching people about the work life balance and what that truly means. The severance technology is a metaphor for the corporate attempt to split the work/life balance while the show demonstrates that even if they had a machine that could do it it still wouldn’t work. Reintegration and combining the two is the way. It helped my not-the-sharpest-knife-in-the-drawer dad snap out of his miserable work experience.

Just from this alone, you would probably enjoy what they're doing in S2 far more. Most of S1 is setup, whereas S2 dives into far more of the lingering questions that were set up in previous episodes (and in doing so creates more questions than before). The pacing feels much faster in this one, significantly so, and several things have already happened within the first couple episodes of the season that I only expected to happen in the season finale.

I won't say they never string the audience along with plot points, but there's certainly a lot more moving parts in this season than in the deliberately slow pacing of the previous one.

I won't say they never string the audience along with plot points, but there's certainly a lot more moving parts in this season than in the deliberately slow pacing of the previous one.

I liked season 1, but then I've stayed with From like an abused partner. That show is the worst mystery box Lost writer's nightmare I've ever watched. Nothing ever happens.

I'm looking forward to season 2 of Severance though. I watched the first episode and thought they replaced most of the main cast until the end haha.

Is your plan to refrain from watching on the weekly episode release dates and wait for the whole thing to release before consuming it? Because I actually think that might be a good idea (if you're confident about not stumbling upon spoilers). One of my biggest gripes about this show is the way Apple TV has decided to release it - I find Severance hugely benefits from being able to build momentum through a couple of episodes, and watching episodically is a good bit more disjointed than having an experience where one episode dovetails into the next. I watched S1 in one go and prefer that experience, as opposed to S2 which I'm watching as the episodes are being released.

Honestly, I would probably have DNF'd the first season if I had been forced to consume it episodically. This season, in contrast with the previous, seems like it's trying to mess with your head every episode - the weekly instalments feel much more idea-rich and complete narratively, and I still feel slightly frustrated with having to wait through a week-long break every single time.

If I'm honest I'll probably watch haphazardly. I've already saved up a couple of episodes due to other entertainment priorities.

I do feel your pain with showrunners doing BS cliffhangers. Except for a few series that benefit from digestion and watercoolers, I think binging at your own pace is the superior watching strategy.

Not that'll deliberately wait until seasons end for a weekly release I'm hooked on..

I don't think you can judge shows like that until they're done. Mystery box shows have a tendency to devolve into utter shit.

IIRC, there is a properly drafted plot from start to end, or so I've heard. This isn't a Lost scenario where the writers basically write themselves into corners they can't satisfactorily resolve.

That being said, the quality of the show is going to heavily depend on how they handle the overarching mystery.

We'll see.

After the last disaster (GoT), my policy is to not start TV shows that haven't ended yet.

Of course the problem is the creative team knows to say they have a plan even if they don't. There's been a long history of people assuring the public they have a plan for their films/tv/book series and then... not.

The Cylons were created by man.

They evolved.

They rebelled.

There are many copies.

And they have a plan.

(They have no plan)

This is a fantastic recommendation, and I do want to offer a counter-opinion to the negative reviews of Season 2 below; personally, I'm still enjoying it, about as much as I did Season 1 at this point. I don't really think they could've continued to showcase the daily lives of the severed workers without killing much of the momentum they built up in Season 1, and there's not too much they could've shown in the lives of the severed employees which they already didn't cover. Episode 4's execution was impeccable, despite building up to a reveal that was largely predictable, the way the episode proceeded was deeply uncomfortable. It felt like a horror movie.

One of the bigger gripes I do have with the season so far is that I think the hard narrative cut between Episode 3 and Episode 4 was weird, but the quality of the episodes have been great in my opinion.

I've just watched episodes 3 and 4 last night. I don't think season 2 has been as strong, but I'm still enjoying it and it's generating lots of discussion.

One of the bigger gripes I do have with the season so far is that I think the hard narrative cut between Episode 3 and Episode 4 was weird, but the quality of the episodes have been great in my opinion.

A friend of mine thinks there might be some period of time chronologically between the end of episode 3 and episode 4 that will be filled in with future episodes. He might be right, this has been a narrative trick the show has used previously. Because it is very jarring.

Man, for some reason I cannot get into Season 2. It reminds me of Westworld where season 1 is good but then the show becomes so full of itself it tortures every facial expression and line of dialogue to try to exude some sort of gravitas.

I'm still liking season 2 a lot, but it feels like a significant step down from season 1. I think the first season did a better job balancing the every day life of the severed workers against unfolding the plot mystery, whereas season 2 is a lot more focused on the mystery. Plus I find all the scenes with the bosses boring because the show won't reveal to us what their true motives/goals are, so it's always this cryptic emotionless stare-down with no context, and it gets old fast.

Yeah the writing has been a little less coherent, the satirical/comedic elements a little less tight. It's been a step down but not a massive one.

My biggest fear though was that they would just spool this out forever but the show seems to be quite forthright in charging through the plot.

  • Small weapon and small shield

  • Small weapon

  • Two small weapons

  • Big weapon

  • Small shield*

  • Two small shields*

  • Big shield*

Which do you find the coolest to look at? Which do you find the most fun to use in games?

IMO, "small weapon and small shield" is coolest, but "big weapon" has ended up being the most fun to use in the action-focused video games that I've played (e. g., Dark Souls 2, Nioh 1, and Gundam Breaker 4).

*Among video games, those in the Dark Souls series are the only ones of which I am aware in which these setups are semi-viable (not counting Captain America–style shield throwing). Among tabletop RPGs, GURPS provides a fair amount of detail for shield users (1 2 (a b)).

Greatsword.

Also, you forgot the big + small combo. Or maybe it’s small + tiny? Rapier + parrying dagger, katana + wakizashi, saw cleaver + pistol. Fromsoft knows what’s up.

In no order: longsword; giant fuck-off hammer; polearm; gun/small sword; rapier/cloak. Seriously, give me more cloak fighting. Give me a game where I play a matador, but taking down horrendous beasts rather than a tortured animal.

rapier/cloak. Seriously, give me more cloak fighting.

Thanks, I didn't know I needed this. Gonna steal this for character designs.

GURPS has support for cloak fighting.

wrench

I was expecting a link to this. "I'm gonna kick some ass with my own pipe wrench..."

  1. Polearms (e.g., most depictions of Guan Yu or Wu Kong): I just find spinning/twirling moves aesthetically pleasing
  2. Dual-wielding small weapons (e.g., Chaos Blades Kratos or Talim): usually involves fun acrobatics, bonus style points for reverse grips
  3. Weapon + Shield (e.g., Link from Zelda): a bit too generic for my taste, doesn't feel like there's a lot of room to get creative
  4. Heavy weapon (e.g., two-handed axe or claymore): usually slow and cumbersome, rarely cinematic
  5. Shields without weapons: aside from Captain America, I've just never seen this in media

For sheer coolness, dual wielding wins. For what I find fun to play in games, any of the small weapon options are fine. Big weapons are too slow and hard to hit with, whereas with small weapons I can just button mash and connect often enough. "Skill issue" wouldn't be an unreasonable take, but skill issue or not I just don't have fun with big weapons.

Small weapon, small weapon and small shield and big weapon all appeal to me.

Small weapon alone is cool in the same way, for instance, John Wick killing 100 guys in a night club with one pistol is cool. It's a marker of extreme competence that the wielder doesn't feel like he needs to fill his hands to reliably get the job done.

Small weapon and small shield allows flexibility, I like it in video games, my first instinct when I start playing a Souls game or a game like it is to go mace and shield. I do hate the sword and shield in Monster Hunter though, but that's probably because Monster Hunter weapons are not necessarily about what the physical weapon instinctively indicate their gameplay would be like.

Big weapon is cool to me only provided the weapon is a spear/polearm. Giant stupid swords (I mean FFVII here, not historical two handed swords) is strictly for cringe edgelording. That said, in MH I main either horn or hammer, so apparently I can get over impractically large weapons.

Two small weapons is for cringe edgelording as well.

I played a lot of mount and blade. It's made me too practical minded.

Small weapon and shield for storming castles. You don't want the swings getting stopped in the scrum, and you need something for taking arrows.

On horseback: a shield on the back with a two handed weapon for weak enemies. Or a lance and shield for strong enemies. Bow and arrow for weakening enemies or killing peasants.

On foot in a field shield and medium weapon.

In media almost anything can be made to look cool. Though I have yet to see properly cool depictions of slings, halberds, and crossbows.

I seem to remember Chivalry having terrifying polearms. Or maybe I was just bad. But I suppose the dragging shenanigans made everything look pretty goofy.

The coolest crossbows are handgun-style, like Dishonored.

I have yet to see properly cool depictions of halberds

The weapons called "spears" in Nioh are wielded more like halberds (or at least glaives/naginatas). They have a few cool combos.

Though I have yet to see properly cool depictions of slings,

Uhhh

I just haven't seen the David and Goliath movie where he looks really badass with the sling (does it exist). I'm aware of the story.

The key word I used was "see".

You must have seen the statue though.

Small weapon, two small weapons, and one big weapon all tie for coolest to me. Any amount of shields automatically reduces coolness due to the implication that the warrior can't just dodge every attack. However, the small shield, two small shields and one big shield probably tie for 2nd, due to the implication that the warrior doesn't even need a proper offensive weapon to defeat his enemies.

In my books parrying is cooler than dodging because it's typically tighter timing and a greater level of counterplay.

That's definitely true, which I forgot to mention in my previous comment. Parrying with a slender offensive weapon like a sword, in such a way as not to damage the blade, is cooler than parrying with a large defensive tool like a shield. Somewhat similar to how having a sword a shield is less cool than just having a shield for both defense and offense.

I'm a longsword/Zweihander or halberd fanboy. The latter, like all polearms, is grossly underrepresented in media such as video games or movies. How often do you see a protagonist using a pike or halberd instead of a sword?

This assumes a degree of significant personal protection with armor. If that was lacking, I'd definitely opt for a shield.

Sadly most representations of combat utterly gloss over how effective even basic armor was, a medieval knight was a tank that was almost immune to sharp damage while not tired, and only really countered with blunt force trauma.

I have some impression that glaives and halberds are much more common in Chinese fantasy. No idea if that’s true, or if so, why.

More common? I believe so.

Even then, I've heard plenty of people who read Xianxia complaining about how all the MCs end up obsessing with the Sword Dao. The problem is almost as bad, halberds/guandaos get very little screen time.

How often do you see a protagonist using a pike or halberd instead of a sword?

How often do you see modern-era action films in which the protagonist lugs around a 40mm Bofors instead of a rifle? Pikes are extremely cumbersome to carry around, and not very effective in single combat compared to a half-length spear. And let me repeat, extremely cumbersome to carry around. Pikes are upwards of three meters long. You don't just bring those on a jaunty adventure or to similarly protagonisty activities. If you go marching with a pike, then that's all you do.

Sadly most representations of combat utterly gloss over how effective even basic armor was, a medieval knight was a tank that was almost immune to sharp damage while not tired, and only really countered with blunt force trauma.

This has always bothered me. Aragorn was cutting down orcs like they were naked even when they wearing heavy plate.

Some media gets it right. There are two duels in the King that get it right. And "A Knight's Tale" which is silly in many ways also managed to get armor correct.

Aragorn's a bad example here because he has a magic sword. From the fight in Moria:

...Andúril came down upon his helm. There was a flash like flame and the helm burst asunder. The orc fell with cloven head.

It also shines with white fire whenever Aragorn is doing something cool later in the story. I wish that had made it into the movies.

I thought maybe that was the case that he had a magic sword. But it also happens in reverse where the orcs cut down the men defending the white city. And again the guys have plate.

Their arrows also have remarkable penetration.

Love that blog, I think I've read that post before but went ahead and read it again anyways.

Yeah, that's a movie/hollywood convention. Nothing to do with the books.

Shields in first person games are not fun because they block your vision and you can't tell where your body is. Shields in third person games are not fun because you don't have a lot of control over where the shield goes. In some games, shield blocks are based off of timing, but in most, you just hold a button to be invincible from the front. It's boring to play with and frustrating to play against.

Two handed sword for me

Two different small weapons is probably the coolest-looking, but small shield + big/small weapon is the most satisfying to play.

Since in better days I did a lot of longsword HEMA, Big Sword, obviously. I also appreciate Small Weapon, if only for the fact that this is probably the way that most armed fights ever have taken place.

Everything else is situational - and having a shield with nothing else, or heaven forbid two shields, is just ridiculous.

In games...also Big Sword. I intensely dislike games that drag fights out and simply make it a test of your patience. Big Sword tends to make things go over a little faster, with fewer clicks.

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