Amadan
I will be here longer than you
No bio...
User ID: 297
They don't. They are simply lying. Yes, it is my belief that to say Garcia was "denied due process" is a lie.
Okay, coming in to this late because I was hoping someone else would address it.
This is really skirting the line. You may sincerely believe that literally no one actually believes Garcia was denied due process. If so, you are engaging in a complete failure to extend even a little bit of charity or theory of the mind to people who think differently from you, including (obviously) people here in this forum. Even if you didn't directly address them, you're clearly addressing this at them. Coming as close as you think you can get away with to "Anyone who disagrees with me on this is a liar."
Besides obviously being intended as a slap delivered to anyone arguing the opposite, it's simply very poor argumentation. You don't have to steelman every argument you disagree with, but you should at least keep in mind that very often people really do believe the things they say they believe, and saying "No, you can't actually believe that, you're just lying" is a cheap dodge to avoid defending your own position or addressing theirs. It never produces good discussion, and here it just inevitably leads to clusterfuck threads where people are trying to get their digs in to express how much contempt they feel for the other side.
Note that I am not trying to rule on the object level claim here- I have read the same breakdowns of the Garcia case as everyone else and the situation is, at best, fuzzy. I am sure there are people arguing in bad faith. I'm sure there are people who really believe what they say, regardless of how well-founded their beliefs are.
Despite all the upvotes, you also got reported six times and the "volunteer janny" banner seems to agree with me that this post was borderline, since it keeps alternating between "bad" and "not bad."
In my opinion, this is a bad post because while the rest of it was fine, the very first sentence was its purpose, and that purpose was just to tell off your enemies because you're angry.
ETA: and to @UrgentSloth and @Thoroughlygruntled, who were so thoroughly disgruntled that I modded the "Fuck you" in response to this post but did not mod this post. My initial opinion on this post was that it was borderline. I don't like people calling other people liars, but you are allowed to believe that other people are lying. You are allowed to have negative opinions about your opponents. You have to be civil about it, no matter how uncivil you are actually feeling, but this was borderline.
I did not mod @HighResolutionSleep right away because I kind of wanted another mod who hadn't already intervened in this thread to make the call. But three days later it's still sitting in the queue with six reports and a controversial vote count so someone had to say something, or just dismiss it, and well, I wanted to say something because I agree that "Everyone who disagrees with me is a liar" is not good discourse. So don't do that. Also, don't tell someone off with a "Fuck you" because they are not engaging in good discourse. ESH.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
1d ago
You are not in any way improving the discourse.
The purpose of this forum is not to see how deeply you can stick a knife in, it is not to wittily express how stupid you think someone is, it is not to "score wins" by poking as hard as you think you can get away with because you think someone is a dum-dum or wrong and bad and you really want to make sure they know you think this. This is not a place where the goal is to flex and demonstrate your verbal agility in the field of battle. (Your ideas are supposed to do the fighting, not your sizzling zingers.) If that is what you believe and that's what you want to do, you should not be here.
In your short time here, you've already been warned a couple of times, and looking at your post history, it's full of snideness, sarcasm, and low effort dunk shots that I'm sure you think "really told him."
Hey, you know what would really stick it to the gay trans furry PC master Hot Topic race? You completing your argument.
you shamelessly ducked
But you apparently don't have an arrow in your quiver
Big fat L.
Nah man you shamelessly ducked. Massive L.
If you keep posting like this, first you will get a temporary ban to let you decide if that's what you want to keep doing and whether you want to stay here, and if you don't adjust your style of engagement, we will remove that choice from you.
tldr: this isn't Twitter, shape up.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
1d ago
Your predictions have yet to be accurate. So yes, you're just wrong and misinformed. This isn't the first time you've said some pretty ridiculous and demonstrably far from reality things about the mod team. Wherever you are getting your information, you should consider updating.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
1d ago
You realize literally in the last 24 hours I've been accused of giving passes to "my side" by both leftists and rightists?
Do tell me, what is "my side"?
People are allowed to make arguments you dislike, even poor arguments.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
1d ago
We notice the influx of new posters and we often have suspicions about new accounts.
That said, it's not conducive to actually drawing in new members if people start publicly accusing every new poster with a hot take of being a bot or a sock or a troll.
You can report suspicious accounts. But even when we're fairly sure someone is a returning alt we usually don't take action immediately if their behavior doesn't immediately throw red flags.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
1d ago
We are not asleep. Sometimes there is discussion, and sometimes one mod would prefer someone else decide what to do about a comment because if that mod (me) takes action it will be a permaban.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
2d ago
Cool. When we tell people not to make low effort assertions without evidence, we are not saying "I don't believe you; prove it to me. We are saying that when you assert things with low effort one liners, proactively provide the evidence.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
2d ago
This adds nothing. Make an actual point, don't just sputter angrily.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
2d ago
Well, you are right that the question is fundamentally whether trans women are a special category of women or a special category of men, and we simply disagree there.
That being said, I still think that putting trans women in women's prisons is more unjust and hazardous to women than keeping them in men's prisons is hazardous to them, at least without much more stringent requirements about who's allowed to identify as trans so they can go to a women's prison.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
2d ago
You need to actually back up assertions like this, or why you believe it. Not just drop one liners as rebuttals.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
2d ago
You are crossing the line between "Source?" and personal antagonism.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
2d ago
Your belief is ignorant and incorrect.
Do not tell people "Fuck you" because you are offended.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
2d ago
If trans women would be segregated in either case, why then is it important for them to be housed in a women's prison?
Otherwise, I disagree that a utilitarian calculation of which solution results in fewer rapes is the correct solution. Absent prison reform on the scale we'd both probably prefer, I will argue that being (and presenting) as a woman is a choice for trans women. They have choices they can make about how they want to interact with male prisoners. Female inmates don't have choices if trans women (many of whom I think are opportunistic and not really trans in a meaningful sense) are dumped in with them.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
3d ago
Most of your posts here amount to calling someone a pussy, using more words. Stop it.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
3d ago
I dunno, I am pretty left wing (by the standards of the Motte) and while there are certain brands of bullshit popular here, it's more that this forum selects for truth-seeking regardless of who it offends, and that, as a side effect, selects for contrary rightist or dissident leftist opinions. I literally don't know of any other left-leaning or so-called "neutral" forum, for example, that would let someone argue that trans women are men or that IQ is both hereditary and has a racial component, or that deporting illegal immigrants is good, or that Trump is not a fascist. I don't mean that any of those propositions are necessarily true: I'm saying almost anywhere else, you can't even debate it. You might get away with suggesting it, but after the subsequent dogpile, if you persist, you will be banned as a Nazi. No exaggeration, I've seen that happen... almost everywhere else.
As a liberal it's disheartening and annoying. I don't think rightists actually have a closer relationship with the truth, per se. But they do put a higher value on truth as a terminal value, whereas leftists today regard truth as secondary to social approval and psychological comfort.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
3d ago
This is the whole problem with treating social media as life-people base everything they think about their outgroup based on the most unhinged viral Twitter personalities, and if someone doesn't have a "trail" (i.e., a Twitter history or something) showing them getting into pointless arguments with trolls then how are you supposed to prove what you say and believe in real life? The idea that anyone who says "No, I don't actually believe the thing you say everyone on my side believes" has to prove it to you by showing their online posts from the Obama years is absurd.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
3d ago
Arguing that female inmates just need to submit to more danger because you've mathed out that it would be "worse" for trans women to be endangered sounds like you're practically making the TERF argument for them: that trans activists consider the feelings and safety of men to always be more important than those of women. "Well, sure, some trans women might be predatory sex offenders who will rape the female inmates they are housed with, but what if one of them was raped by a man? Wouldn't that be so much more horrible?"
I don't think this is quite the trolley problem you think it is. Trans women can be put in protective segregation in a men's prison.
And prison rape isn't actually a problem of not being able to prevent it. Other countries don't have the same problems US prisons do. We don't want to prevent it, because our prison system is dysfunctional in general, and also we have somehow adopted a cultural norm that getting raped in prison (or at least having that be an ever-present threat) is just part of the punishment.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
4d ago
Fuck you.
You may not have been here long, but I'm sure you know better than that.
One day ban.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
5d ago
You guys
Who is "you guys"? @cheesecake_llama calling "you guys" sycophants is not good, and neither is you generalizing right back.
There is nothing to be gained by an exchange consisting of little more than sneers about which side is more in denial and cultish.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
5d ago
I don’t think you or any of his other sycophants
Argue without the namecalling.
Amadan
I will be here longer than you
5d ago
I'm certainly not claiming everyone is sincere, but I wouldn't judge sincerity based on performative outrage on social media. For any ridiculous and hysterical or ghoulish and terrible take , there will be some people who genuinely believe it and some who are just trolling.
Right, so I have to deal with this one too.
There are two issues here: (1) the post itself, and (2) your history.
The post itself is just a rather sneering boo-outgroup directed at Nick Fuentes and his supporters. You are certainly allowed to have a negative opinion about any particular group (Fuentes fans, the Alt-Right, Democrats, Neo-Nazis, MAGA, Muslims, blacks, moderators on the Motte, etc.) and you can talk about why you have a negative opinion of them. But the combination of lazy insults ("Fuentards") and assertions without evidence (I have no idea if Fuentes is homosexual or an FBI informant or whatever, but if you want to throw those accusations out there, you should back them up with something beyond repeating Internet memes) is not a good way to criticize a group you dislike. Once again I am making no judgment about the claims themselves or based on what I personally think of Nick Fuentes and his crowd. We just don't want to see people dropping lines like "Fuentards" into conversation; it does nothing but poison the discussion. On rdrama that may be funny, but this isn't rdrama.
Now, regarding you. You are one of our worst posters. You have acquired a rap sheet so long I have to use to the scroll button. Last couple of reports were basically "Last chance." Honestly, I think I should permaban you because you're inevitably going to keep coming back to shit up the place. But I am loathe to permaban someone for what would normally just incur a warning, even taking your history into account. I will probably regret this- this is not an invitation to come back and post something really bad so I can permaban you with prejudice. But I am giving you a one-week ban this time, and if (when) you get modded in the future, it will very likely be your last.
@hanikrummihundursvin, next time report the post, don't whine publicly, and you've been here long enough to know that we are not on call for you 24/7.
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