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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   1516 thread views

Wellness Wednesday for October 23, 2024

The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:

  • Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.

  • Updates to let us know how you are doing. This provides valuable feedback on past advice / encouragement and will hopefully make people feel a little more motivated to follow through. If you want to be reminded to post your update, see the post titled 'update reminders', below.

  • Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.

  • Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).

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What are the health benefits of nicotine, if there are any?

I picked up the snus habit from people at work and am already at a pretty high dose (though I only do about four a day). I've heard things about nicotine helping with everything from testosterone to Alzheimer risk, and apparently it can help with focus. But I doubt there's a lot of public motivation to investigate these positives since nicotine use often means smoking or vaping, which do have deleterious effects.

Gum seems to work for some people ,but one ought to always be skeptical due to placebo effect or other confounders

https://old.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/yxwbhx/nicotine_gum_is_incredible/

There is a genuine cognitive boost / sharpening, but this gets less and less the more dependent you become on it in my experience. There is also some evidence for it being neuroprotective against things like Parkinsons. Nicotine is also extremely habit forming to the point where some people deliberately use it to try to form a habit (e.g. exercising regularly), but I don't think this can really work if you've already built a tolerance. Check out this Andrew Huberman podcast on nicotine for a good overview of the pros/cons - https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/nicotines-effects-on-the-brain-and-body-and-how-to-quit-smoking-or-vaping

Using nicotine regularly at any high-ish dose really is making a deal with the devil, as you quickly become dependent on it - the withdrawals are pretty bad. I used nicotine for years occasionally, maybe three to four times a month, then eventually fell into daily Zyn use and now am trying to dial it down with little success. You're probably already addicted to some extent if you are using four a day. It's not like caffeine which seems to have a decent effect no matter how long you've used it - once you've built a tolerance, at high doses it becomes more sedating than stimulating (Nesbitt's paradox). I feel little to no cognitive benefit nowadays beyond knocking back withdrawal.

I'd recommend using it sparingly to keep the maximum effects. Also using a low dose (<=2mg) rather than a high dose - high doses (>10mg) felt similar to cocaine to me when I first started using them, so I got addicted. Maybe roll a dice each day and only use it if you roll a six? If you defer whether you use it or not to some external random variable, it should be harder to become addicted without noticing and you'll keep the benefits.

Lower risk of Parkinson’s as well. I would use nicotine more but stimulants seem to affect my anxiety/insomnia in a bad way, so I limit my use to the point I doubt there’s any health benefit

All the adult heavy vapers I know are obviously self-medicating for ADD, it's funny to notice as someone with ADD who never got into vaping. I'd probably be vaping now if I wasn't on bupropion.

Got a chance to try propranolol for my social anxiety. Wow, what a fucking miracle. My social anxiety usually manifests itself through physical symptoms - increased heartbeat, shaking, heat flashes, stuttering, running out of breath, etc. 20mg got rid of all of that. Usually I get locked into the anxiety cycle where my symptoms cause me to start getting worried that people will notice my abnormal behavior, thus causing more physical symptoms. Now that I didn't have any physical symptoms, the anxious thoughts were there but didn't have much effect on me. Essentially, in worst scenarios, social anxiety would cause me to go into overdrive physically but now it just makes me a slightly less talkative than usual normal human. Really curious if exposure therapy while on propranolol would have any long term positive effects.

Congrats bro, I wish health care providers were more aware of beta blockers use for anxiety. My family doctor didn’t want to prescribe it because my blood pressure was fine so apparently only SSRIs are all he’s willing to give.

As for exposure therapy I doubt it will work with propranolol since the point is you need to FEEL the anxiety. A better strategy is to get a job that forces you to speak to strangers on a very frequent basis, that will help moreso than beta blockers in the long run

So, as is usual, my approaching birthday (the day after the election) is worsening my depression — reminding me of how little I've accomplished, how much of my life I've wasted, how many things it's too late for me to try to turn around. (All of which just increase the frequency of wondering why not just skip to the end, since at this point those remaining years won't change anything.)

I'm on meds, I see a therapist regularly, and I'm spending more time under my SAD light (because winter in Alaska). Any other suggestions?

Random ideas:

Eliezer Yudkowsky wrote about "curing" his wifes SAD with a massive overabundance of indoor lighting. I forget the details. Likely a low probability of success, but no side effects beyond money spent.

Slowly get in elite cardio shape. Worth a shot. Mostly positive side effects even if it doesn't work.

Regular social responsibilities are correlated to positive mood. Lash yourself to the mast! Join an IRL social group or volunteer somewhere you'll be needed.

Regular social responsibilities are correlated to positive mood.

Well... sure? In a negative mood you're less likely to take on new responsibilities and more likely to drop existing ones.

I've heard lots of stories about how the effect is also causal in the other direction, as you're suggesting, and that makes just as much sense to me so I'd say "try it", but I'd love to know if anybody's done controlled experiments to estimate the strength of the connection in each direction. If both directions are strong enough then you get "vicious spiral" / "virtuous spiral" dynamics, where people would tend to fall into two very separate "attractors" that require major changes to get out of.

Read some Marcus Aurelius

If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.

You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.

Ever tried reading old philosophy? Plenty of relatable cantankerous depressives like Schopenhauer overthinking stuff out there, but possibly ending up with some genuinely interesting viewpoints instead of just stuff you could fill in yourself starting from "guy's depressed".

Mess with some higher math. A fully solved Linear Algebra Done Right (3rd edition is preferable, the problem sets are way beefier and better organized) or a run at Project Euler could keep you entertained for a long time and maybe build motivation for something bigger.

Find someone you need to stay alive to piss off. Maybe it's an actual person, maybe it's an inner critic, the weak part of yourself that wants to give up, whatever, doesn't matter. Spite is a powerful motivator (at least, it is for me). Leverage the worst parts of yourself to motivate you. A most base example: I don't want to lose weight because I care about my health, but because I'm vain.

With that, I'm not sure of your background, expectations for life, age (I'm guessing mid-late 30s), etc. but for me (possibly one of the bigger fuckups on this forum) I look at it this way: I had a shrink throw up his hands during a consultation and ask how I was still alive. I took it as an insult. Sure, my life was intolerable at the time (as opposed to this time if I seek therapy again, where it's more a case of "I need to get better, decommission the neon sign on my head that attracts dysfunctional people into my life, and quit making shitty decisions to get where I want to be"), but I wasn't ready to quit (In fact, I sought therapy because my lifestyle at 23 was going to get me killed and a recent near-death experience had made me realize that I wanted to live.).

I've wasted most of my adult life, and at the age of 33 am giving it a half-assed go at getting things together, getting a career, and getting toxic people who use me and drag me down out of my life. Do I expect a happy ending with a family? No, I'd love one but am hoping for a smart but neurotic woman who also missed the boat and whose crazy clicks with mine, a partner to complain about the world with. Do I want to finally be a career man to impress my father? No, my easy gravy train job went out of business and I'm tired of being broke, dealing with roommate drama, and driving a 15 year old piece of shit car that I have to work on regularly.

I'm not exactly an AA success story, but I quit being a terrible (drinking until blackout every night) alcoholic the same way. At some point in my late 20s I just ran out of energy and got tired of feeling like shit every day, so I cut down on drinking, have days (sometimes multiple in a row!) where I don't drink at all, etc. and I don't wake up hating myself most of the time. I recently encountered a 36 year old CA who drinks like I did when I was 22 and good God now I understand why the 8th Step exists.

I guess the moral of the story is to use what you want to be as a goal for the future rather than a cudgel to beat yourself up with now. Ask yourself: "Am I a better man than I was yesterday, last week, month, year, etc?" If you can honestly answer with a "yes", you're on the right path.

Tl;dr, ground your expectations.

age (I'm guessing mid-late 30s)

About to turn 43.

As for background: Disabled. Living in Alaska. Failed my duty as eldest sibling to continue the family line (and my younger brothers certainly aren't going to do it). Failing to do anything to contribute to the survival of my people, against their many and powerful enemies. Failing to do anything productive with my 151 IQ. Failing to leave any legacy. Living by stealing money from the pockets of hard-working Americans — and worse, not even having the courage and masculine fortitude to do it myself, but by outsourcing my banditry to the state.

Living by stealing money from the pockets of hard-working Americans — and worse, not even having the courage and masculine fortitude to do it myself, but by outsourcing my banditry to the state.

If you have an IQ of 151, you could 'earn your keep' for a good few years by helping out right-wing organisations do opposition research on left-wing ones.

Digging through financial records of charities, and creating visualisation of how funds are being used for leftist purposes is useful. That kind of stuff.

Why were you judged unemployable? Can't tolerate people ? Can't tolerate boredom?

Failed my duty as eldest sibling to continue the family line (and my younger brothers certainly aren't going to do it).

I assume this means acquired infertility. There's research going on about making sperm out of stem cells, and that should circumvent all forms of infertility (except being dead).

I assume this means acquired infertility.

No, it means that "it takes two to tango" and I've never even been on a date. Middle brother literally fled across the country to get away from a "crazy ex-girlfriend," hasn't dated since, lives with our parents, and holds anti-natal views. Youngest brother and his girlfriend — both also on disability — both have serious health issues, some of which for the latter make pregnancy too risky.

No, it means that "it takes two to tango" and I've never even been on a date.

Oh. I didn't consider that because it sounded potentially fixable and thus not an already-determined failure.

  1. Being in your 40s isn't as big a deal for men as it is for women attractiveness-wise.
  2. Even if no-one in the US will take you (which doesn't seem assured), and even though you IIRC are poor, there is still some option of fetching someone from Eastern Europe, SEA or Africa, as your US citizenship itself is fairly valuable. If I were as desperate as you seem to be, this'd be how I'd do it (although admittedly I'd have a much easier time of it).

Obviously I don't know a damn thing about you and it may very well be that you are undergoing a spike of depression and presenting yourself in a fashion that highlights you at your worst, rather than at your usual. But with that caveat out of the way, and taking what you write here at absolute face value rather than as an exaggerating vent - have you considered suicide?

have you considered suicide?

Frequently, for the last 20 years. My first psychiatric hospitalization, and being put on meds, was following an attempt when I was at Caltech back in 2004.

Somehow you're not making any more attempts though, and what attempts were did not succeed.

So, what's keeping you around? Is there family? Friends? A love of leisure? A fear of pain or death?

So, what's keeping you around? Is there family? Friends? A love of leisure? A fear of pain or death?

Family, mostly — specifically, that the costs of disposing of my remains exceeds my net worth, and they'd be on the hook for the remainder.

Definitely not "A love of leisure" — I don't really have any enjoyable pastimes.

I've long ago given up on anything ever making me happy; the only question is if I can find some purpose to keep going through the misery, other than how it'll impact my family. ("But think of how sad they'll be" emotional blackmail is the go-to argument of all my therapists.) Otherwise, at the very least, when my Mom goes I'm done.

The problem is finding a good method that will be relatively quick and painless, and won't leave me even worse off if it doesn't work — people have survived shooting themselves in the brain, and their condition afterwards isn't pretty. (Plus, being in the psych ward after a failed attempt sucks.) Mostly, inert gas asphyxia looks like the way to go, and it doesn't cost too much to rent a helium tank (at least, not yet, but the supply is declining and price rising, so…)

Or I could take one acquaintance up on the offer he once made me to buy me a one-way ticket to Los Angeles after my mom dies, so I can attend a Caltech reunion… and then take out as many SoCal leftists with me "on my way out." As Ezra Pound once said, "I have always thought the suicide should bump off at least one swine before taking off for parts unknown." After all, that may well be my only shot at leaving a legacy behind, the only way that my existence and my pain will have had some purpose and meaning.

Edit: and may I say thank you for not resorting to the usual clichés about how life is always worth living, suicide is never the answer, yadda yadda yadda. Where else, if not a rationalist-adjacent space like this one, can I get people who will rationally assess whether or not a particular life is worth living? Who might conclude that suicide is the reasonable action (and not just tell me to KYS out of emotional animus, politics-driven or otherwise)?

Okay, look, I am genuinely sympathetic to your situation. I have close family members who have literally been every bit as depressed, at the "why-do-I-even-bother-to-keep-living?" level, as you are, and I am aware that "Think about how sad your loved ones will be" is neither effective nor appreciated. That said:

Or I could take one acquaintance up on the offer he once made me to buy me a one-way ticket to Los Angeles after my mom dies, so I can attend a Caltech reunion… and then take out as many SoCal leftists with me "on my way out."

Whether meant ironically or not, please do not post things that will get a warrant served on us in the event that you actually follow through.

Family, mostly — specifically, that the costs of disposing of my remains exceeds my net worth, and they'd be on the hook for the remainder.

Well that sounds like a solvable practical problem. Grab a rubber boat, row or motor out to sea as far as you can, tie an anchor to yourself, knock yourself out via sleeping pills or whatnot (I am not a doctor) but poke a hole in your boat before you fall asleep. It'll all take you down to the bottom of the sea without you even realizing it. Not my idea; just something I read recently.

and may I say thank you for not resorting to the usual clichés about how life is always worth living, suicide is never the answer, yadda yadda yadda. Where else, if not a rationalist-adjacent space like this one, can I get people who will rationally assess whether or not a particular life is worth living? Who might conclude that suicide is the reasonable action (and not just tell me to KYS out of emotional animus, politics-driven or otherwise)?

To be honest, most of the time when someone tells me a story like yours, it's just at some low point in their life and the situation is not as objectively bad as the report makes it sound, and the person in question still has a lot of options. But all I have on you is your post above, so there goes. If you really have nothing left to live for and your continued existence is at odds with your values...

But all I have on you is your post above

Just look through my past comments, and you'll find plenty of details on me and my situation; I've shared them here plenty of times.

Grab a rubber boat, row or motor out to sea as far as you can, tie an anchor to yourself, knock yourself out via sleeping pills or whatnot (I am not a doctor) but poke a hole in your boat before you fall asleep.

Then there's the cost of the boat, and getting it out to sea — Cook Inlet near Anchorage is a silty mess, laden with highly-dangerous mudflats, and the Port is closed off to the general public since 9-11. It would take a costly trip out of town to get to a small boat launch.

Plus, the issue of making sure the pills are strong enough to ensure unconsciousness, because drowning is an awful way to go.

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Do 1-2 long meditations every single day

Schizophrenics like me are strongly warned not to attempt meditation of any kind.

Is that the cause of your disability? Are you aware of a new breakthrough drug for schizophrenia recently was announced?

Can you tell us what stream entry is and how it's helped you? I'm curious.

There are plenty of stories of wildly successful people who were failures in their early to mid lives. There are almost no things that are too late to turn around.

Winter in Alaska is tough, though. Someone in the Rational spaces (maybe Eliezer) noticed that his SAD light was rather, well, sad. He bought a ton more of them to actually get lumens equivalent to daylight everywhere in his living room, and it turned to be all he needed. So if the SAD light helps you, but not enough, why not try more dakka?

There are almost no things that are too late to turn around.

Parenthood? Dating for the first time? A career in physics (physicists all do their best work in their 20s, and are generally considered "over the hill" once they pass 30)?

Along the lines of that last one, how about an athletic career? Or obtaining military experience?

There's plenty of things one can end up too old to do.

obtaining military experience?

I recently retired from 20 years in the US Navy. If this is something you truly want in your heart of hearts, I'd be happy to chat with you about your options, of which there are a number. I'm not interested in a debate about whether it's too late in life to do something if you're not actually interested in doing it.

obtaining military experience

I won't commit myself to the project of enumerating counterexamples to all of these, but this specifically reminded me of the entertaining story of Paul Douglas, best known as Cobb's opposite number in the eponymous production function: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Douglas_(Illinois_politician)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Douglas_(Illinois_politician)

That was WWII. I can't imagine the modern US military taking a 50-year old — it would require a rather serious war, and nowadays, you'd get the nukes flying long before it reaches that point.

Parenthood? Dating for the first time? A career in physics (physicists all do their best work in their 20s, and are generally considered "over the hill" once they pass 30)?

No to all three. You're way too fatalistic, dude (and I say that as someone with too big of a fatalism streak myself). You can do any, indeed all, of those things at older ages. Most people don't, but "rare" and "difficult" are not the same as "impossible".

You can do any, indeed all, of those things at older ages.

Menopause and the rarity of "age gap" relationships — outside of elderly "sugar daddy" sorts — make parenthood incredibly implausible. Plus, try finding the energy to deal with teenagers when you're in your 60s or 70s.

And what's "awkward fumbling to be expected and forgiven as part of the learning process of forming relationships" in a teenager is often "creepy and a reason to call the police" for a balding 40-year-old man.

Cognitive decline for physics. Add schizophrenia and medication side effects. Plus, the entire field is in a slump right now.

Again: "rare" and "difficult" are not the same as "impossible". Nobody said that everything is equally as easy as you get older, simply that it can be done.

I'mma be real with you dude: you're approaching this whole thread (and your other thread about clubs, for that matter) in a supremely unhelpful way. When people give you advice about how to solve (insert problem here), you need to actually try to take the advice. Don't argue against every single thing everyone says to you, and don't continually shift the goalposts the way you have been. It's unhealthy for you, and it's just going to cause people to stop trying to help you. The vast majority of self improvement has to come from you believing that it's possible and trying to make it happen, and that's not feasible if you just shoot everyone down when they try to help.

When people give you advice about how to solve (insert problem here), you need to actually try to take the advice.

I'll do that when they start giving advice that isn't totally useless to me and my situation.

The vast majority of self improvement has to come from you believing that it's possible

I don't believe it's possible, and I think I have good, solid reasons for that belief. And all people like you provide are vague generalities and feel-good slogans, not solid, specific evidence against my view.

I'll do that when they start giving advice that isn't totally useless to me and my situation.

You need to consider that maybe your judgement of what is useful is flawed, and that people are actually giving you useful, actionable advice which you are rejecting because it doesn't fit with your preconceptions of what works and doesn't work.

Your only "advice" was that "rare" is not the same as "impossible" — which is the same sort of reasoning about very small probabilities that makes lotteries "a tax on stupidity."

Surviving your parachute failing to open when skydiving isn't literally impossible — a few lucky cases have managed to survive. But is counting on and building plans around that sort of extreme luck a good idea?

I'm pretty sure there's some bits from the Confucians — in keeping with the Master's refusal to discuss 怪力亂神 (strange occurrences, feats of miraculous strength, disorder, and spiritual beings) — about how life must be built upon the regular and predictable, and not around the rare exceptions. "Counting on a miracle" and investing in "not impossible" very-low-probability outcomes is, like playing the lottery, a poor strategy; indicative of several cognitive biases (difficulty with very small numbers, selection bias — you hear about the rare successes more than the many, many, many, many, many, many, many failures — optimism bias, sunk-cost fallacy once started…).

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get lumens

Sometimes called a lumenator. I recall it being Eliezer as well.

Finally got my Concerta prescription, firs time trying 36 mgs, it's super hard to get it in India 🤗.

If you feel like writing more, I would be interested in reading a detailed description of your experiences. Both with getting access to the medication and its effects.

tl;dr get concerta, no other form of methylphenidate, get at least 36 mg. You will need to be disciplined from there on, use the med to lead to a life where you can eventually remove the med in a few years.

I took my first pill today, it was rough but not really, in the UK you have one-year-long wait times. I went to a different psychiatrist initially for years, on and off, he would only give atomoxetine, did not do fuck all, my co-founder harangued me for concerta for days, I went to the public psychiatric hospital, and they coud not recommend drugs that were not in the in house pharmacy, went to the doctor next to it, got him to write me methylphenidate, that too just like 5 and 10 mg, went to Thailand, finally got 18 mg but stopped since I was having other issues in life and frankly felt uncomfortable asking my roommate to pay for my meds since my card did not wokr in Thailand.

Came back to India, and went to the same psychiatrist, he told me dad stupid shit like how concerta is bad and all, recommended a different psychiatrist, I went to her, she evaluated me, called me again with my parents, got the med on my third visit. Concerta is Methylphenidate exteded release, do not fuck with any other form of methylphenidate, you will need to take upwards of at least 36 mgs, take it daily in the morning, cant smoke, drink or do drugs on it. Just remember to eat a lot and on time, meditate and dont surf a ton. You will be good.

I will write a detailed summary on this soon, was initially waiting to write about this in next weeks thread. ADHD is very real, get meds, get treated fast, I wish I got this 10 years ago.

I've apparently reached the point in my life in which I'm concerned about hair loss/lack of hair growth. Laugh it up. Any recommendations for supplements I should be taking?

Oral or topical minoxidil has low side effect profile. Finasteride works but might mess with hormones/ has low probability of high impact side effects. Electric micro needing is weird and gross, but works esp. in conjunction minoxidil.

Biotin and msm are low probability, but might thicken hair/ make your hair look better.

Get in shape to look more like prime Bruce Willis or other balding sex symbols.

Not my area of expertise, but aren't hair plugs pretty good nowadays? Lebron and Biden both had them and they looked good. (The only reason I know they had them was because their baldness reversed).

When I was in Istanbul, I saw a lot of white guys walking around with shaved heads and women with bandages on their noses. Apparently, they have great and affordable cosmetic clinics there.

Supplements? Not aware of any that work.

I'd recommend topical minoxidil. Works great if you have the patience and discipline to stick to a several month long regime.

Impatient? Or high tolerance for erectile dysfunction? Toss in finasteride. I'd just go off the former for now, especially if you're starting on the early side of things.

As a bald man: Ha! Ahahahahahaha!

As the below poster said, those supplements will work. But also, consider just letting yourself go bald so you don't have to take that stuff forever. Just know that once you get to a certain point in the Norwood stages, a hair transplant won't save you. So really, you'd want to take a hair supplement mrvanillasky mentioned, get a hair transplant if necessary, and then keep taking hair supplements.

Or go bald. Then you can get a cool wig or something. If you're already married, ask your wife if she'll let you go bald instead of chaining you to the wall and applying minoxidil to your immobile scalp twice a day.

Seconded. Unless you have a really odd skull shape, shave it. It’s easy to maintain and makes applying to a biker gang much easier.

If you have a funny skull shape, you can have a doctor shave your skull.

Finasteride and minoxidil. See a dermatologist and don't read about the side effects. I started two years ago. Just know that once you start, you can't stop but start anyway, it's worth it. You hop on these meds even if you get a transplant so start now instead and avoid the need ea transplant.

Tl;Dr worked out and meditated after a while

I worked out for the first time in nearly 5 months after my partial labrum tear and weight loss. I use light weights as I want to fix my shoulder and not injure it again. I heard some weird crackling noises that happened because I did not move my right hand much under any load but that is fine. I did see my physiotherapist before going and he recommends that I take it easy on stuff that loads the shoulder directly or indirectly but can go ham on curls, anything to do with legs besides deadlifts as you hold the bar and smaller muscle groups.

I am 66 kgs at 6 foot right now. I got the injury of my own stupidity where I kept doing dumbell pullovers with a higher range of moiton than needed again and again after seeing a youtube tutorial. I will keep working out thrice a week and try to do some HIIT cycle stuff on my off days as my V02 max is in the dumpster.

Also meditated foenth first time in two months, feels heavenly.

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