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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   27830 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 27, 2024

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EDIT: my club HOR linked turned out to be fake. How embarrassing. This protest movement probably does not have hipster appeal.

In Germany, it's illegal to sing songs that can be considered hate speech or aligned with Nazi ideology.

Several days ago, at a beach club in Northern Germany, a video went viral of a bunch of drunken Germans singing along to dance music track with lyrics that say "Germans for Germany, Foreigners Out" https://youtube.com/watch?v=xZZztdyd0PQ

Authorities have announced criminal investigations in response, though this does not appear to be silencing the hipster youth of Germany from enjoying the song. More recently, this popped up in an "underground" techno broadcast at Club HÖR https://x.com/kunley_drukpa/status/1794390427388588274

Is this an actual hipster event? Yes. They have their origins in illegal parties being done in basements or warehouses where everyone is hurrying to get their dance on before the authorities shut it down. Though they're much more popular now, they have kept the subversive raw industrial space motif.

Isn't this scene aligned with gay and otherwise leftist social mores? Yes. Typically, German techno is LGBTQ-coded and events can feature anything-goes public displays of sexual activity.

Are they just dropping the track because its beat is sick? Absolutely not. The song was originally produced by an incredibly cheesy Italian producer-DJ as a club anthem. In the hipster spaces this is as cringe as it comes. You would have to kill yourself if you dropped this as a place like HÖR. Perhaps the sickening cheesiness of the song is having its sign flipped because the insipid romancey lyrics were replaced with illegal German nationalism?

Hot anti-immigration thoughtcrime breaking out into the subversive mainstream but still fashioning-itself-as-underground techno scene in Germany is an unexpected development, though it did not come without foreshadowing. The "far right" Alternative for Deutschland party (AfD), is apparently now the most popular party among 14-29 year olds.

https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2024/04/jugendstudie-2024-jugend-in-deutschland-pessimismus-zukunftsangst.html

via Google Translate:

According to a study, adolescents and young adults are more dissatisfied and are turning more towards the AfD than in previous comparative studies. 22 percent of the 14- to 29-year-olds surveyed would vote for the AfD if there were a federal election now. That is more than twice as many as two years ago, according to a representative survey presented on Tuesday for the study "Youth in Germany 2024". In 2022, nine percent voted for the AfD, compared to twelve percent last year.

For most of its life, the AfD party was previously associated with square, middle-aged, clearly uncool xenophobes.

The parallels between this and the alt-right in the US around the early Trump era are noticeable. It appeared that the youth of America was so tired of cringe progressivism that their parents were into that the alt-right acted as a kind of new punk, though in the US the alt-right evaporated fairly quickly after Trump was elected.

In Germany in 2024, aligning with nationalism may be analogous to a kind of new punk that will definitely freak out your parents and set you apart from the older lamer generations. Can this translate into a revolution? As above, being the most popular party among young people in Germany doesn't say much because young people are not the biggest voting bloc, and unlike in the US there are many more political parties.

Still, this is probably going to stump historians of techno for years to come. (Or not! Since my hipster club link is fake. The other one with the preppies is probably real though)

So Germany has imported foreigners that are unwelcome, then they criminalize criticism, criminalize the parties that naturally start to address this issue, and criminalize grassroots expressions of dissatisfaction.

And they call this Democracy. The worst part is, they're serious. This is what democracy looks like.

What's interesting in this thread is how esteemed the concepts like 'counterculture', 'rebellion', 'new punk' and so on are. There should presumably, especially to conservtives, be nothing particularly special about being counterculture, insofar as 'counterculture' ever existed.

They are, at the minimum, exciting new brand development opportunities.

That's the effect of five decades of large segments Anglo-American media being absolutely obsessed with counterculture & rebellion. We're luckily somewhat isolated here in Finland (when did you last hear journalists hyping "working class artist / musician" as a term outside niche stuff?). Alas, it has leaked everywhere in English speaking countries (although I'd love to hear any Australian / New Zealand perspective on this).

At least in lefty circles, there has been a trend of saying that local hip-hop is "the new worker's music", but yeah.

One of my complaints about privacy and digital hygiene obsession that's so in vogue with early middle aged white people is that they all appear to believe that they're subversives, potential enemies of the state, and that they best adopt Signal for e2e messaging privacy, and use VPNs to avoid tracking, and limit their socials, etc.

There are other reasons to care about digital hygiene, but the most anodyne people worrying that the FBI is maintaining a dossier about them is probably an effect of five decades of media obsession with counter-culture and rebellion.

My friend I literally just linked an article last week about the FBI skimming through everyone's credit card purchases for "suspicious activity."

Sure, but there's a >99.999% chance the people worried about this don't do anything edgy or counter-culture enough for the FBI to look twice at.

People here don't buy guns or gun accessories that the Biden administration is trying to use administrative procedure to make retroactively illegal?
People here don't read books the FBI considers "warning signs of domestic extremism" such that buying them puts you on an investigation list? We didn't have literally a thread about those books a few months ago?

FC might have something to say about that.

Citation linked for the 5th time btw because apparently nobody ever reads them or just pretends it never happened EVERY SINGLE TIME

People here don't buy guns or gun accessories that the Biden administration is trying to use administrative procedure to make retroactively illegal?

Hold up. What's the specific claim? I'm not a huge guns guy but I do remember having to submit to a background check for both a rifle and a handgun. Additionally, I understand if I purchase a suppressor this requires multiple submittals to various agencies. I fully understand and don't really... worry... that they know all about my gun life? What impact is a consumer VPN service or switching to Signal going to have on any of this? What does the FBI scanning bank records have to do with this?

SteveKirk believes, with fairly credible reason, that the federal and some state governments is working in coordination with various online and meatspace merchants to track the sales of major firearm components, in an attempt to track down people who are manufacturing 3d printed or other self-produced guns.

((And while SteveKirk hasn't said it explicitly, I think the feds probably also are trying to track down likely owners of guns sold in private sales who use them enough to modify or require repairs of major components, for both manufacturing charges and to prepare state efforts trying to 'close' private sales or interstate or unregistered ammunition sales, such as California and New York.))

This is bad enough in the sense that it's not actually illegal in many jurisdictions that it's being covered in, and plausibly unconstitutional even in the states that do ban it, but that's just the surface level problem. If you own a 3d printer and normally-bought guns that you're maintaining without producing any 3d-printed weapons, you might avoid a conviction (or even a trial!) should a bunch of ATF agents break down your door looking for guns, but it won't bring your dog back to life. Same for stuff that 'looks like' silencer material.

There are also bump stock or (more often) pistol brace components that have been retroactively banned, after long periods where the ATF claimed they were legal, in ways quite a lot of gun owners who own these things -- and might put photos that get auto-cloud-uploaded, if they're particularly unlucky -- may not know they have been banned.

There are other reasons to care about digital hygiene, but the most anodyne people worrying that the FBI is maintaining a dossier about them is probably an effect of five decades of media obsession with counter-culture and rebellion.

Do you also complain about people buying insurance? The chances of your house being set on fire or destroyed are vanishingly small, so these people are just throwing money away for no good reason. Similarly, why waste time putting on a seatbelt when going for a drive? You're probably not going to be in a crash after all, so why subject yourself to the discomfort and wasted time?

Information security and privacy are probably not going to be terribly important for the average person, but you don't know if you're going to be in the minority for whom it becomes exceedingly important and the techniques used to protect yourself cannot be applied retroactively.

I guess I consider the odds that your online communications will be intercepted and used against you are much, much more unlikely than your house burning down or being in a car accident.

I think this is because in the back of my mind I don't expect to receive at any time a call that we must start pitching molotov cocktails at the courts and then escape the state's retribution, whereas I suspect deep down a lot of people harbor that feeling. Or some other fanciful counter-cultural notion. And in that case I will regret not having swung everything over to Signal several years prior.

In the current political climate, early middle age white people are probably more likely to be an FBI target than almost anyone else. It's hard to accuse a trans black woman of being a white supremacist. Also, they probably have more to lose from an FBI investigation than anyone else; you can't lose your job or family if you don't have one.

Nevertheless, the FBI (or some three-letter agency) is indeed maintaining a dossier about them. It's just a very boring dossier.

What's interesting in this thread is how esteemed the concepts like 'counterculture', 'rebellion', 'new punk' and so on are.

Between a lot of people here having their roots in the left, and appreciation for fighting for what's right, regardless of societal pushback, probably being a universal quality, how is that interesting at all?

I wasn't thinking about the forums only, also more generally. Punk used to be considered an actual threat to society, evidence of civilizational decay. It is interesting that it has become a moniker for "fighting for what's right" and so on, even among the more conservative section. Likewise, being "countercultural" by itself would indicate being satisfied with a certain niche status instead of taking over the actual general culture - sure, countercultural movements have gone mainstream, many times, but this has also meant a loss of status inside the self-considered "counterculture" itself.

It is interesting that it has become a moniker for "fighting for what's right" and so on, even among the more conservative section

I dunno, it's not exactly mind-blowing that even people I'm vehemently against are fighting for what they believe is right. I also have no issues admitting it takes a special kind of person to commit to such a fight, when all "respectable" society is against you, and to admire that, even when I disagree with what they're trying to achieve.

Likewise, being "countercultural" by itself would indicate being satisfied with a certain niche status instead of taking over the actual general culture

Oh, that might be an actual thing that changed. I think there's a whole bunch of factions, not just conservatives, that written off mainstream society, and are just looking for ways for their communities to survive whatever the powers that be have in store for us.

Regarding that Sylt video, what struck me most was how badly performed that act of rebellion was on a factual level. What is wrong with generation TikTok if they can't even LARP at being Nazis better than that? "Auslaender raus"? The 90s called, they want their NPD back. Today it is "Remigration von Bundesbuergern", which is way more offensive btw. Doing the Hitler Salute while also indicating the Hitler mustache with the other hand is something I have never seen outside of people making fun of Nazis, and would likely have gotten you into trouble in the third Reich.

Anyone who has two brain cells to rub together, went to school in Germany, and decides to annoy the mainstream by voicing Fascist thoughts should be able to do better than that. I mean, I don't expect a torch march while they sing the Host-Wessel-Lied, but would it be too much to ask that they perform the salutes correctly? I sure hope Hitler has youtube access in hell so that he knows what became of his ideology (not that it had not started out with drunk losers in the first place).

I am not saying that I approve of that kind of rebellion. It is like seeing a four-year-old who decides that he will annoy his parents by smearing dog turds in his face and then falls down as he tries to pick the poo up.

And just like I would not want that four-year-old being on national TV, I also don't think the Sylt people should be. From the way they act it seems likely that they are not what one would call satifaktionsfaehig (capable of giving satisfaction, i.e. in a duel). Now, if one of them was a leader in a youth group of a political party, that would be a reason for this video to make the news. And if this is part of some weird TikTok trend where this is among the top ten things in Germany, it would be fair to report about that.

I mean, if a court decides that they violated the law and makes them pay a fine, I am totally okay with that. But I don't like like mobs, and there will always be some who will see this as their opportunity to prove what valiant anti-fascists they are.

Remigration von Bundesbuergern

Presumably it's less easy to chant that to a Gigi D'Augustino tune.

Typically, German techno is LGBTQ-coded and events can feature anything-goes public displays of sexual activity.

I think this controversy fully displays to what extent the whole "LGBTQ community" narrative is actually astroturfed. I don't even have to use my arguments, Douglas Murray said it better here. Apparently "homophobic", AfD party is very popular with gays in Germany. I'd dare to guess that gay men are the majority of techno party goers, so it does not surprise me the least that Deutschland für die Deutschen, Ausländer raus! would be popular among them. It is incredible to read through the article and watch the cognitive dissonance in real time.

If you view AfD as a bulwark against Islamic immigration and Islamic immigrants as a major threat to gay people, then this is quite rational. This is also the reasoning behind Dawkinite atheists who, now that fundamentalist Christianity has receded as a threat to all but the most paranoid atheist, have turned their attentions to fundamentalist Islam.

The Dutch alt-right is pretty explicit about this. Pim Fortuyn was openly gay, and both Fortuyn and Geert Wilders have made "Muslim immigrants are violently homophobic, which is un-Dutch" key points in their campaign rhetoric.

A handful of German party-goers privately wanting Germany for the Germans and no foreigners

-> inacceptable, punish severely.

Thousands of islamists publicly demanding the transformation of Germany into an islamic caliphate

-> that's freedom of opinion, we are a democracy.

I think it's safe to say that by revealed preferences, German society doesn't give a shit about the gays and our priorities are elsewhere. Probably somewhere in the broad region of the moral apex imperative of "be good people, good people punish nazis and tolerate foreigners".

then this is quite rational.

Sure, but it's still a new and surprising development. Dawkinites turning their attention to Islam was a thing 10 years ago. In response feminists, LGTBQ+'s, and anti-racists decided to form Atheism+ and drive out the Dawkinsians. If what you're describing is happening again, then that is indeed a sign that the vibes have shifted, though a restart of New Atheism might be hard to pull off, given how much damage their core thesis of "Imagine no religion", or Science Trusting, took.

It depends: Douglas Murray was a neo-con back in the Noughties. I would need to see stats before I took a view on whether e.g. gay men are more anti-Islam or anti-immigration than they were back at that time.

Dawkinites turning their attention to Islam was a thing 10 years ago. In response feminists, LGTBQ+'s, and anti-racists decided to form Atheism+ and drive out the Dawkinsians.

How much of this was ever a thing in Germany though?

One of our local Germans will have to go into the details on that, all I can tell you is that their PMC is extremely woke, from my experience. Then again, so is the rest of Europe these days.

It is and it is. Individuals may deviate, but they can do so only in very private, and any public dissdence is punished by deplatforming, fines, job loss and being forever smeared by all media, social and otherwise, as being either a neonazi or a useful idiot for whatever nebulous forces of evil are currently blamed for the existence of non-leftist thought (nowadays it's usually Putin). The exact level of enforcement varies wildly, but one is never safe to make any public statements that could be construed as "völkisch".

Would this forum be of dubious legality in Germany?

Legality, no, I don't think so. I am certainly not a lawyer, but for all the stories of this or that platform being banned, I don't think the Motte fits the pattern.

But you certainly could end up in hot water in every sense other than legal if your name showed up next to some Motte quotes taken out of context.

That wouldn't surprise me. What would surprise me is learning that the New Atheism - Atheism+ split also happened in Germany.

Well, it didn't. There was no split. The militant atheists appeared, most disappeared, and the ones that remained seamlessly converted to postmodern progressivism.

The head of the AfD is, in fact, a lesbian. That said, the AfD is a highly broad tent party and includes libertarians, civic nationalists, ethnic nationalists of various kinds, some religious trads and so on.

For the PMC-leftist commentariat on Twitter this has been a wonderful event, because they could finally demonstrate that, yes, rich and pampered kids are right-wing. When in reality, in Europe, the most important predictor for left-wing vote is wealth, the richer you are, the more on the left you are.

When in reality, in Europe, the most important predictor for left-wing vote is wealth, the richer you are, the more on the left you are.

Doesn't seem so according to this, for Germany. AfD voters tend to be low-income, but so are Linke and SPD voters.

Urban vs suburban/rural is the major predictor in Europe. This accounts, in real terms, for many sub-factors like ethnic background, religion or lack thereof, age, wealth, student status, political signalling etc.

Yes, I live in a generic left wing European city, but a few miles outside are villages where politics tends to vary from the Christian Democrats to the far right.

Some places like Poland are different, in that rural areas tend to be both more right wing and poorer, which is reflected in how Polish politics is divided more on social than economic grounds.

These don't look like hipsters at all though. They look like preppy rich kids.

Maybe I'm living under a rock, but I never got the impression that the techno/rave subculture attracts preppy rich kids in particular anywhere. It's a hobby which does not entail spending large sums of money, as far as I can tell.

Yes it had just been preppies up until the underground party. But nevermind that link is fake. So far just preppies?

The parallels between this and the alt-right in the US around the early Trump era are noticeable. It appeared that the youth of America was so tired of cringe progressivism that their parents were into that the alt-right acted as a kind of new punk, though in the US the alt-right evaporated fairly quickly after Trump was elected.

Except that the alt-right youth in the US was a fringe social media phenomenon - in the 2020 exit polls, we see the young voting for Biden and the old voting for Trump. (The equivalent pattern in the UK is even stronger.) The alt-right youth thing in continental Europe is translating into right-populist parties doing as well (or occasionally better) among young people as they do among oldsters. Front National in France, the AFD in Germany, the FPO in Austria, PVV in the Netherlands, M5S in Italy are all turning out the youth vote in a way Trump or Farage profoundly doesn't.

This song isn't new, it's been going around for at least a year, and I'm neither German nor hip to the latest social media, so my guess is that by the time I saw it it'd been going around for a while.

It appeared that the youth of America was so tired of cringe progressivism that their parents were into that the alt-right acted as a kind of new punk

As it was written

Has anyone found a full recording of Der verbotene Ohrwurm? I haven't checked the alt-tubes yet, but either nobody is putting it online, the regime is fighting very hard to keep it off, or quite possibly I'm retarded.

Comments on original versions of the song are either off the hook or just off.

Is there an actual song? I think people just dubbed a few verses on an existing tune.

More recently, this popped up in an "underground" techno broadcast at Club HÖR https://x.com/kunley_drukpa/status/1794390427388588274

Do you really think the audio recording is actually from Club HÖR? By all means, find it in the original recording, although after watching (an actually pretty decent set of) all 53 minutes, you will find that it does not happen. In fact, the audience doesn't feature in the recording at all. Go back and look at their other livestreams, does it seem realistic to you?

Drukpa is a DR shitposter. In future, trust your instincts with regards to these things. Leftist Berlin hipsters are not singing "Ausländer raus" in techno clubs, please. I'm sure young men are in some of the more extremist burschenschaften, but that's a rather different milieu (and there is, in any case, nothing new about that).

Drukpa is a DR shitposter. In future, trust your instincts with regards to these things. Leftist Berlin hipsters are not singing "Ausländer raus" in techno clubs, please. I'm sure young men are in some of the more extremist burschenschaften, but that's a rather different milieu (and there is, in any case, nothing new about that).

Yeah Drukpa's been posting random overlaid stuff like that on techno club videos for a while. I think the overton window is shifting a little, but Drukpa not a great souce for it.

Ugh. Looks like I have been duped. It was too good to check.

Part of the reason I was susceptible to this is because I was at a techno party in a junkyard in Berlin a few years ago and someone passed a bottle of Jagerneister to me and I asked what this big iron cross on bottle was supposed to mean. The guy who handed the bottle to me got up and screamed "it means I am Adolf Hitler!" and everyone nearby laughed and said HEIL HITLER!

Confused, but not sure what else to do, I took a drink and we moved on.

Anyway, the idea that there might be a Nazi-for-the-lulz-at-the-minimum undercurrent in German youth was seeded in me then.

There's clearly an urge to troll.

That all said, my bad.

And teenage boys in the USA use the n word because it offends people, same thing.

Do they?

Yes. I mean girls usually don't, but adolescent males have a deep instinct to buck taboos. In the US that's anti-black racist rhetoric, in Germany that's flirting with national socialism.

Ever been to 4chan?

(And yes, I know a few people in that demographic that do this constantly for that reason.)

Do your older siblings tell you you were adopted because they hate orphans, or do they do it because it gets to you in a way that other insults and teasing don't?

I know how trolling works. I just have a hard time imagining teenagers using n-word today is all.

In the heydays of reddit, usernames like /u/niggerkiller etc were not uncommon, and were almost always seemingly just meant to be inflammatory for its own sake. Some people never grow out of this, of course. You could check the post history of such people and not find anything remotely murderous or seriously racist.

Their party looked so preppy I can't in good faith call it punk or even hipster.

The one article is interesting because it says the far-right is being spread on tick-tock. In the U.S. we generally view tick-tock as China spreading ideologies that weaken our nationalism (transgender, river to sea Hamas stuff).

Perhaps this is just counter-culture that the young do because they are young and rebel. But rebellion for rebellion sake implies that the rebellion is wrong and fueled by misinformation. What if this is real and being fueled by a realization that the old emperor has no clothes? And open-borders suck for Germans? That Germany as they know it won’t exists in 50 years and they will be a conquered people?

In the U.S. we generally view tick-tock as China spreading ideologies that weaken our nationalism (transgender, river to sea Hamas stuff).

I think it's important to note that "ideologies that weaken our nationalism" doesn't specify an inherent political direction, and seems to look more like amplifying scissor statements to make us mad at each other. I think the modal example looks less like high-level direction to allow trans athletes in women's sports, and more like observing that people have surprisingly strong feelings on the issue (fairness vs. inclusion) and constantly highlighting the issue in ways that maximize outrage on both sides.

In much the same vein, I thought a lot of the 2016 Russiagate coverage was inherently counterproductive. Sure, maybe the Russian intelligence apparatus wanted Trump to win to stoke discord in American politics, but from where I sit it looks like we devolved into political infighting almost more over the specter of such meddling than from the actual political actions themselves: The rumors and investigations of their involvement seem to me have been far more pernicious for American unity than any of the direct actions.

Everything bad is spread on social media for a certain generation.

It could be anorexia, it could be communism, transgenderism, it could be fascism, it could be islamism. TikTok is just the new thing, before it was Instagram, then Facebook, then MySpace or whatever else (or indeed just 'the internet').

Social media tends to amplify things that are trendy locally. And extremism tends to get trendy because the people who like it watch it, and those who don’t like it tend to hate-watch it. Since it’s getting lots of views it goes to the top. But since what people get excited about varies by community, you can easily find the same SM platform promoting opposing views to different people.

As well as judaism or philosemitism, we need to protect our kids.

If you were a relatively fresh user, I’d warn you to put more effort and tact into your position. If I thought you were being facetious to make a point about 2rafa’s subject, I’d remind you to speak plainly.

Neither of those things are true. You have a long history of one-liners and a longer history of insisting one particular group is actually the worst. I conclude that you’re proudly ignoring our rules about evidence and effort specifically to remind everyone that you despise your outgroup.

Banned for one week.

Plenty of stuffy blue tribers will claim ticktock spreads pro-Trump sentiment, or worry about like tradwife content or whatever. I think the common denominator is that old, established people just don't like ticktock and it spreads mildly taboo things.

Authorities have announced criminal investigations in response

Insane how far things have gotten in Germany.

In Germany in 2024, aligning with nationalism may be analogous to a kind of new punk that will definitely freak out your parents and set you apart from the older lamer generations.

In my mind, right-wing is the true counterculture. But I am a contrarian and most people are not.

I think the model of young people as rebels a bit flawed. In many ways young people are slavishly conformist. Think of a high school clique. Or think of the various social movements that became purity spirals, with people cast out over tiny doctrinal differences.

Young people do want... something. They're not sure what they want exactly, but they know they want it hard. This energy can form the base for many political movements, but it's actual direction can be molded from outside. Mao realized this when he created the Cultural Revolution, weaponizing the energy of the young to cow his rivals.

Maybe today's new "rebels" will be a true counterculture, like the hippies of the 1960s, largely an organic movement undirected from the outside. More likely, the rebels will be completely co-opted by the people already in charge, and will be used to fight their intra-elite battles. It's pretty amazing how today's Antifa members have nearly the exact same ideology as a Harvard professor or WaPo journalist. "What do we want! The current regime – but even harder!", they chant as they throw a trashcan through a Starbucks window.

In my mind, right-wing is the true counterculture.

Can you say more about why you think that?

It holds every value of the current zeitgeist in contempt, and values things that the current zeitgeist hates. The CZ wants a libertine society and the youth are off insisting on traditional values and culture and religion. The youth are so trad at thins point that not only are they religious but in the case of catholic youth, they’re going for Latin Mass and fighting popes and bishops to get it.

I'd be interested in his answer too, but the basic case is pretty simple: being a part of that subculture puts you at risk of exclusion from polite society, therefore it's a counterculture. Calling it "the true" counterculture might be going to far, I'm sure there's plenty of other groups that can lay claim to being countercultural, but this one's by far the biggest.

It doesn't exist enough to be a "subculture". Being a right-winger is like being the class clown or something; you may be counter, but you're not culture.

In many ways young people are slavishly conformist.

I don't know if younger people are more conformist by nature but they are undoubtedly far more sensitive to social pressure from their peers. In most cases this manifests as conformity to whatever's popular, but it also means the returns on bold individualism can be far greater.

but it also means the returns on bold individualism can be far greater.

Yes, in absolute value, but the sign is negative.

Bold individualism in the sense of pioneering a new musical genre of style of clothing etc.

Sure, but unless the counterculture is classically liberal/in the middle of a genuinely prosperous age (which is generally the cure to "social pressure from one's peers) it just turns into "boldly advocating for 50 Stalins". One of the more visible new youth styles of clothing, "men in ill-fitting dresses", is ultimately (and perhaps ironically) more conformant to social pressure than not doing that.

True, but we do live in funny times. I'll admit I'm not an expert on the history of such things, but my understanding had been that it was teens who pioneered things like punk, grunge etc that weren't exactly aligned in every way with the Cathedral of their times.

https://x.com/kunley_drukpa/status/1794390427388588274

I would swear I saw that clip months ago. Am I misremembering or is this being misreported by 𝙿𝚛𝚎𝚜𝚜 @ ℝ𝕖𝕡𝕦𝕓𝕝𝕚𝕔 𝕠𝕗 ℂ𝕙𝕒𝕕 | ʟᴇᴠᴇʟ-ʜᴇᴀᴅᴇᴅ ᴀɴᴅ ᴄʀᴇᴅɪʙʟᴇ ᴀᴄᴄᴏᴜɴᴛ || འབྲུག་?

In addition, the video does not feature anyone singing the actual song, it's a DJ playing music that could be overlaid with any sound. The audio itself sounds like more of recording of a bar or party than a nightclub too, but that's just my impression.

It is easy for me to believe that there is a substantial minority of young German men who would agree with the above sentiment. It is much harder to believe that the chant would occur at a huge Berlin nightclub with a largely progressive audience without any major audible booing. By the way, on the average night a substantial minority (probably upwards of 20%, if not much more) of clubgoers at somewhere like Hör would be German-speaking minorities, so the idea is even more ridiculous.

That's in addition to it being posted by a shitposter.

Is the techno/rave subculture still a relevant thing in Germany? I assumed it peaked sometime in the late '90s.

The part of the German Berlin club subculture that English-speaking foreigners may know of (stuff like Berghain) is a largely (literally) gay niche, even among hedonistic urban young people. Techno is definitely still a thing, sure.

It was cracked down on in the US in the late 90s due to adjacency with organized crime. Techno producers had to just up and move away from NYC to Berlin to continue their work. I'm not really sure what it was like in the 90s in Germany vs now, but it seems like it's all over the place in Berlin today.

It was cracked down on in the US in the late 90s due to adjacency with organized crime.

Big, if true. Can you provide a source?

I was too young to see it happen but I've heard it from a lot of people.

My sources would be me ex-post facto searching for links that confirm gossip that I've heard. I think that would be a waste of your time tbh and I'll just say what I know.

Giuliani famously started rigorously enforcing cabaret laws in NYC, shutting dance clubs down.

There were similar pressures in Chicago though I think not Detroit.

(and if you were a techno producer-DJ living in NYC in the 90s you would probably prefer to move to Berlin than Detroit)

I also dated an older woman who was a record artist (like, a person that illustrates vinyl records) who said all of her techno clients moved to Berlin during this period.

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