The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
No bio...
User ID: 174
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
7hr ago
I'm not familiar with that particular claim from either one. I present as a counterpoint the Battle of Athens. Long story short, a bunch of military veterans disrupted the stealing of an election (by the inumbent machine) by force (including explosives). They won the election and did not take their punishment for the violence in the end.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
7hr ago
Have you never seen a western? The hero outlaw who dies and/or turns himself in at the end is a pretty classic trope.
It is, but I claim it is wrong and broken. It is a trope championed in morality plays by a civilized world as a bulwark against vigilantes, and it has no place in a world where vigilantism is actually necessary.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
7hr ago
Yes, everyone's for "accountability" (for other people) but no one wants to be "held to account".
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
7hr ago
It's not called the "long march through the institutions" for nothing.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
8hr ago
I think "the hood" as it exists today is a product of the Great Migration and later the crack epidemic. Till himself may have come from "the hood" (he was from Chicago), but he wasn't killed there, but rather rural Mississippi.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
He ended up calling it "Flock", right?
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
It's pretty obvious all of those DCs aren't going to be built, at least not any time soon (within the next few years); the hardware can't be built that fast and there isn't enough construction capacity. But a moratorium means you're doing none of them.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
No, I'm not saying that, not in this subthread. It probably actually makes more sense for all concerned for them to use grid power and pay to have the capacity built and attached to the grid. This is going to make for a complicated arrangement but big deals often are. What I'm saying in this subthread is that data centers have not caused electricity rate increases.
Data centers can use locally generated power, but that's where you do get noise issues and local air quality issues. If the DC is going to use local power all the time (not just when the grid connection -- often multiple -- fails) the municipality needs to treat it as a power plant, which probably restricts a lot more where it can be built.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
It's not a datacenter issue in the slightest. The nitrate water didn't come from the data center. The data center was using the already-contaminated water for cooling, then passing it on to farmers (more concentrated through evaporation) for use as fertilizer. It was that ultimate use that contaminated the groundwater. Had that water been dumped out to sea or shipped to China or something, and the local farmers bought nitrate fertilizer from elsewhere, you'd have had exactly the same issue.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
If you make them build grid improvements (which amounts to money and partnerships with existing firms which do such things; they're not going to do the actual grid improvements any more than Microsoft is restarting TMI), but don't LET them build grid improvements (because environment, safety, union work rules, etc), you've just banned them in a more complicated way.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
But Abbot says there's too many applications for new power connections so he's not going to consider any of them. Brilliant move. Politically, anyway
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
Gary Plauche didn't give the law a chance. If we suppose some counterfactual where Douchet was guilty as hell but the court lets him off because the judge has a soft spot for child molesters, it would make no sense to condition the morality of similar vigilante action on subjecting oneself to the (counterfactual) child-molestor-loving legal system.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
If it is the right thing to do there should be no music to face. "You can be a vigilante as long as you're willing to be punished by the very state which made your vigilante actions advisable in the first place" is just a long winded way of saying "You can't be a vigilante".
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
I lean towards supporting vigilante justice only in cases where the vigilante then turns themselves in and pleads guilty to a hostile court.
This is just self-sabotaging. If vigilante justice is the right thing to do, then it is also right that the vigilante not be punished for it.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
You can't conceive of a single rational argument people might have against data centers?
There are plenty, but they aren't the true objections, @aquota is correct to point this out and doesn't deserve the angry red response.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
I think this is right, but they pretty obviously increase electrical load pretty dramatically, and providing their own power just seems smart, both to preempt criticism and to secure a long-term supply that isn't reliant on market fluctuation. Plus, it's more secure.
Nobody who opposes data centers would support them if they brought their own power.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
Existing electricity price increases aren't correlated to data center builds, however. And of course we're slow to put new generation on the grid; environmentalists.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
The IBEW, at least, is upset at the New York moratorium. I assume they're more upset at the missing construction jobs than anything permanent, but when as many data centers are planned as proponents dream about and opponents fear, such jobs can be expected to be available for a long time.
But little of the data center opposition is about this. It's nice for the opponents that data centers create few permanent jobs, but most of the opposition is pure irrational fear stoked by propagandists.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
Extremely low latency is what you want for serving customers but it doesn't matter much for training or infrastructure tasks. But you do need a LOT of bandwidth regardless, and I don't know if it's practical to provide that to the blasted (or unblasted) bits of nowhere.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
The problem with this is the electricity rate increases haven't actually materialized. They're all projections. And future impacts, in theory and in practice, fairly easy to avoid; the permitting authority has to structure things so the data center pays their own way. This should not be that hard, the data center builders currently have a lot of cash to throw around. So it amounts to a opposition talking point, like the water.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
· Edited 1d ago
There are, in fact, some who argue that he isn't guilty of the charges, though possibly this is state-supported trolling.
I believe that they believe BOTH that "any criticism of blacks is per se illegitimate" AND that "they are trying to use powerful iconography to prevent criticism of blacks". (probably a few believe "blacks are naturally innocent regardless of their actions" as well). I don't see how this is destroying their "seed capital" though; their argument amounts to yelling "SLAVERY! LYNCHING! JIM CROW!" over and over until their opponents yield or are destroyed, and none of those things will go away.
ETA: Here's a New England Journal of Medicine contributor also supporting Arday's innocense, at least partly (he claims he doesn't care if Arday is innocent, but...): "Besides making the point that his Ph.D. advisor and the university cleared him of any deliberate plagiarism allegations"
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
2d ago
Yes, open loop cooling is often used where water is cheaper than power. Of course, that water that goes up in the air doesn't exactly vanish.
Keep in mind that many datacenters are located in places where water just falls out of the sky.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
2d ago
On balance, the current panic will almost certainly pass
It won't pass because it's being sustained externally. Imagine if all the 5G paranoids, instead of being opposed and marginalized by the mainstream propaganda organs, were instead being supported by them. That's most of the data center opposition. Whispering campaigns, articles about how datacenters cause miscarriages, even people dropping in on obscure forums to talk about how genuine it is.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
2d ago
poetry-reciting Orc
They've re-invented Vogons!
Sure, and it makes perfect sense if someone wants to attach an enormous data center to your grid to do just that. However, the electricity complaints aren't the real objection any more than the water complaints are. It's just a nebulous NO with the specific complaints being the rationalizing faces of it, and so you can expect "making data centers build grid improvements" to come alongside "don't allow grid improvements" because the reason for such requirements is to block the datacenters.
More options
Context Copy link