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PaperclipPerfector  10mo ago (text post)   2730 thread views

Wellness Wednesday for January 24, 2024

The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:

  • Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.

  • Updates to let us know how you are doing. This provides valuable feedback on past advice / encouragement and will hopefully make people feel a little more motivated to follow through. If you want to be reminded to post your update, see the post titled 'update reminders', below.

  • Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.

  • Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).

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For those who lift weight, how do you get your protein? Trying to get 100+ grams of protein in a day seems like so damn much, even with a protein shake and eggs etc.

What is your typically set of meals/snacks to boost your macros?

In addition to just having regular meals with the wife that generally include meat/eggs, I have a variety of snacks always on hand. Most often, they include sous vide chicken breast that is seasoned with various things, cut up into little pieces, and frozen, so I can just pull a package, thaw, and eat, protein shakes, cottage cheese, and Greek yogurt.

I'd also echo @Tollund_Man4 that I've found that consistency in lifting, sleeping, and not drinking alcohol tends to more directly and visibly correlate to gainz than optimizing details of my macros. Weirdly though, I always feel not-quite-so-strong when we have fish for dinner the night before... ¯\(ツ)/¯

After I lift I'm always hungry for a smoothie: 2 scoops whey, 300g frozen fruit, 300ml soymilk, 200g topfen (aka quark, its like yoghurt but even higher proportion of protein). That alone is 80g protein, and its delicious. Im 100kgs, and my appetite is stronger than I'd like, so this only fills me up a little.

For the always preferable whole foods, I know how to make a chicken breast I really like (carbon-steel pan, spice rub, 10 mins a side with light browning (gotta know your stove for this one), rest for 5. Comes out juicy, tender, delicious. For grilling I might flay them, but I usually marinade, and always rest).

Usually 2 breasts come in a 550g package. Eating one of these in a sitting is easy for me. The rest of the plate might be some kind of veggie, a scoop of hummus, possibly potatoes. 80g protein.

For prepared stuff, lately I've been making a semi-asian minced meat, minimal-oil grain and fry medley. Saute 2kg semi-minced chicken breast (its a lot of knife work) in batches with salt/spices, sautee 2kg various chopped veggies in batches (peppers, spring onions, zucchini, etc) with salt/spices, combine in a large bowl with 500g barley (done in stock), 200g can lentils, rinsed). Put in glass containers in the fridge. This makes about 8-10 bowls. 80g protein each. Season with a touch of roasted sesame oil and soy sauce after reheating. I like mine spicy.

Split pea soup with a very lean cut of pork. 50g per bowl. Freezes well.

Pasta "bolognese" with an absurd over-abundance of lean ground beef (anchovies in the sauce really enhances flavor, but not so much I can taste the anchovies as anchovies). I buy handmade pasta/ ravioli because I'm already skimping of flavor by not using veal, but honestly it's delicious once you get the sauce right. 50-60g per bowl; sauces freezes well. The right chili recipe is a protein bomb as well.

Salads with lean cuts of meat. Easy to hit 50g per salad.

I'm always hungry. I love food. I like to cook, but it doesn't take me too much time because after years of learning, I can solve my own personal prep, cook, clean, scale, taste, and macro equation without any overhead in term of thought. Most of what I eat is "leftovers", and I look forward to all of it.

I buy frozen chicken thighs from Aldi, pour Italian dressing in the bag itself, add a bit of grape seed oil and lemon pepper and slap one down on a panini press, takes three minutes. I do the same thing with spinach and eggs.

Here's an example:

  • breakfast:
    • open sandwich with Pacific salmon: 7.5
    • high-protein Greek yoghurt: 11.3
    • cocoa: 4.2
    • fried egg: 7
    • half a protein bar: 9
  • protein shake: 21.7
  • lunch:
    • chicken broth with a single drumstick: 18.7
    • a slice of bread: 2
    • half a protein bar: 9
    • two cookies: 3.7
  • protein shake: 21.7
  • dinner:
    • three meatballs: 16.4
    • a serving of pasta: 8.8
    • half a protein bar: 9

That's 150 grams of protein, enough for you to be escorted off a flight.

Ahh yeah I see the protein bars and shake add a lot on their own, like ~60g or so. Definitely need to start supplementing with shakes and maybe bars.

My only issue with most shake powders and protein bars is the added sugar, which I am recently trying 5o avoid.

I don't worry about it beyond making sure I eat a lot and include a lot of meat. I think consistency in going to the gym is the most important thing and optimisation should be sacrificed if they conflict (i.e. you should be willing to lift in jeans and short on sleep if the only time for gym is straight after work), I know that I could get from A to B in a shorter time with optimised nutrition but I'm still impressed with what I've achieved when I've lifted consistently for a year straight.

2 scoops of whey, greek yogurt, some kind of dried protein snack/bar, a few eggs, are all things that I eat daily.

But as Walterodim said, you have to eat meat. In that not dishes as meat as a component. but meat main.

I'm a vegetarian. In the morning I have some Greek yogurt with protein powder and almond butter for about 73 g protein. Then I usually have about half a brick of tofu for lunch (20g). Between snacks and dinner on top of that it's easy to cross 100g.

Yeah I gotta get some greek yogurt apparently.

Just for completeness, it's probably worth mentioning that it's possible it is slightly more optimal to break up protein feeding into smaller boluses. This paper for example recommends four 0.4 g/kg/meal servings. For someone at 80 kg that puts the recommend size at 32 g.

A chicken thigh is 28g of protein. An 8-ounce sirloin steak is 60g of protein. A typical cheeseburger is ~40-50g.

Basically, I just eat meat in quantities that I would describe as normal. Almost every meal includes meat.

Are you vegetarian? If so you will probably have to supplement, and there is an argument for going to >0.7 g/lbs lean body weight if you are primarily consuming "lower quality" sources.

If not, I can see how getting more than 150 grams could be difficult, but you should be able to hit 100 g eating mostly "normal" stuff. Two large eggs and 2 chicken sausage links ~40g. A 5 oz chicken breast should be at least 35 g. Another 5 oz of 93% lean ground beef is another 30g. That's already 105 grams not including supplements or incidental protein, i.e. if you had 1/2 cup of oats with breakfast that's another 5g. If you go out to eat and the macros aren't great, save enough calories for a casein shake before bed.

Not vegetarian but my partner is so we don't cook a ton of meat around the house. That may have to change hah. But then I have to cook... D:

Does your partner eat fish, eggs and dairy?

Man, you'd assume working in the Onco Surgery department would entail handling cancer patients.

Instead, here I am with a patient with plain old phimosis planned for the 'ol snip and dip diagnosed with "preputial stenosis", just to gussy it up so insurance doesn't complain.

Right, absolutely healthy young man, you haven't had any chemotherapy, radiotherapy or periods, period. You take no meds, you're not allergic to anything but showing me your dick, a sensible decision all concerned, and you shouldn't be in a ward filled with people recovering from losing their prostate, gallbladders and other miscellaneous organs they'll miss.

At least I shouldn't have to do all that fucking paperwork, I'm tempted to just get it over with myself in the ward but fuck it, I get my paycheck for sending him off to a fancy oncosurgeon as both desire.

Phimosis that's a new term for me, thanks. As a male circumcised in what are now considered the apparently barbaric old days when it was routine, I'd never even considered the condition as a thing.

I was circumcised for phimosis myself, likely unnecessarily.

Imagine my surprise as a kid when I went to the hospital for acute appendicitis and woke up again missing two very different but still quasi-vestigial organs. Very confusing, I'll tell you.

I can't say it's made any difference in my life.

They circumcised you when you went in for appendicitis, without your consent?

I was like 5-7 years old, so my consent wasn't legally required in any jurisdiction I'm aware of, or at least the US, UK and India. Parents can consent for just about anything a doctor recommends at those ages, or withhold it, though in the UK doctors are allowed to provide lifesaving treatment regardless of what parents say about it (for kids below the age of Gillick Competence who are not able to provide informed consent).

Besides, my parents are doctors themselves, so while they made an error in my case (my brother had phimosis too, he just grew out of it like most kids do), I imagine they had my best interests in mind and not the usual American standards where babies are circumcised as the "default", even if that's changing.

So no hard feelings. I'm more annoyed that they tricked me into entering the OR by telling me I'm going for a "color xray", which seemed immensely sus to me even at that age, but by the time I realized what was up there came the sedation. As a child who hated needles, I'd have said fuck you to the surgery, and would hence quite likely be dead. As for my dick, I prefer it this way, and apparently it gets me more blowjobs if my last few girlfriends are being honest.

Man, I wish I'd kept the appendix in a jar full of formaldehyde, if not the foreskin. Makes for a cool mantelpiece, I'll see if mine grew back.

I knew cuck porn from India about classy Brahmin girls falling in love with Muslim zubbs had some basis in reality!

I'm more concerned that in a sectarian war they'll ask me to drop my pants to check, but while I have no love lost for militant Hindus or Muslims, the former outnumber the latter and my penile disposition might be a nuisance.

Since this is the place for encouragement, I want to encourage everyone involved in last week's discussion of relationship insecurities started by @Sheepclothes.

As someone who has my own insecurities about dating and relationships that I've been struggling with lately (not about my partner's past but about her future -- could she do better than me?), this whole comment thread was helpful in crystalizing my thoughts and was heartening to read. I especially want to highlight @2rafa's comment as insightful about insecurity as a challenging, but real, sign of concern for another person and @justmotteingaround's comment giving solid advice that insecurities are something inside you, not them; it's your own perceptions and not the reality, the map and not the territory.

If it were possible to nominate an entire thread as an AAQC, I would do it for this thread. Sometimes the dating/relationships threads on themotte (and the internet in general) can get incredibly heated, but this whole discussion was full of sensitivity, honesty, compassion, and forthrightness. Everyone optimized for light, and I think it's because they chose to share their own experiences and commit to being vulnerable, rather than thinking about the discussion as a place to argue for a position or score points. Instead of a motte and bailey, there was a garden party.

I'm in a weirdly calm mood today (I think I'm just sleep deprived), so I wanted to share that I found this helpful and encourage everyone to bring that energy to more discussions.

Really, really great job guys. I mean it.

The problem with discussing dating/relationships is the same problem of discussing politics. It's the intersection of a very complex and personal subject. The participants being dispassionate AND smart is a necessary condition. And that condition is not met in practically just about all places you can have that discussion.

Even though the demographics of the motte might suggest otherwise, the fact that almost all the motte does is discuss politics well, explains why the motte also discusses relationships/dating well.

I’ve been feeling under the weather for the past couple weeks, and am thinking about doing a cleanse to see if that can jumpstart my body’s immune system.

Any recommendations for a healthy cleanse, maybe lasting up to 6 days?

Your cleanse should be...

  • More than 8 hours of sleep.
  • Drinking a lot of water.
  • Eating nutritious meals.
  • Some exercise.
  • Some sunlight/ vitamin d pills.

Just stay on the cleanse forever.

Your forgot

  • Eliminate alcohol

It's what helped me stop getting sick all the time. A drink or two a night was enough to ruin my sleep and in turn suppress my immune system. YMMV of course.

Try a leek soup cleanse, although it's more of a wet fast so I'd recommend 2-3 days max.

From everything I've read a cleanse isn't necessary, though depriving oneself of, for example, sugar or anything sweet, or booze, or similar, especially if it's something you regularly consume, might produce results. I'm currently reading Robert Lustig 's Metabolical and it's compelling and convincing, though I'm always leery of diet advice, just based on the experience of seeing various waves over the years of true believers who were later debunked.

Edit: I may not have in mind the same cleanse you do

I have never heard a coherent rationale for why a "cleanse" is a good idea or even makes sense.

I suppose a lymphoma or leukemia would be a good excuse, but also unlikely to be relevant here.

No.

No recommendations because such a thing does not exist.

jumpstart my body’s immune system

Did you get vaccinated (fuck the COVID one, just the regulars you're supposed to get)? That'll do you more good than any number of cold baths or Vitamin C pills. If so, consider your immune system well and truly jumped.

Why fuck the covid one but not the others?

@Walterodim has saved me the trouble

Unless you're old/sick, or working with the old/sick, the benefits are largely negligible at this point.

I have had 2 normal shots and 3 boosters, and have caught COVID 4 times confirmed and once suspected (I couldn't be arsed to get tested and I wasn't employed where I could use it for sick leave).

Also, if someone hasn't had it yet, I don't care to tell them again.

It's a fairly ineffective vaccine and the eventual outcomes were such that if I had gotten those in a controlled animal-trial, I would have discarded it as ineffective and filed the results away in a cabinet. Despite the later claims that vaccines aren't intended to prevent infection and transmission, they actually are intended to prevent infection and transmission; failing to do so is an incredibly disappointing result. There are good reasons to believe that there was good-faith belief that it would be more effective than it wound up being, but it really isn't a very good vaccine.

Perhaps more importantly to the conversation, it's also the most polarizing one and people could have good reasons for skipping it while not having a broadly anti-vaccine stance.

26 M. Sometimes I have trouble maintaining an erection with the girl I’m seeing. I’m very attracted to her, but when the moment comes to put the condom on, I get anxious and lose it. I’ve abstained from masturbating for a few days before seeing her and it still happens—other times I’m fine but we can’t have sex for various reasons. We haven’t had sex yet because of this.

This is seriously fucking with my head and very embarrassing. The last relationship I was in I had no issues with this. I think I’m just worried about the actual act itself for some reason (is this performance anxiety??) and need to cool my head.

Health and well-being is fine: I haven’t watched porn in two months (it was a bad habit so maybe something to do with it?); I eat healthily; I exercise vigorously daily; I get sufficient sleep; I’ve had a vasectomy and she’s on birth control so no pregnancy worry; I masturbate every 2-3 days.

Any ideas or suggestions on this?

The last time this happened to me, it was for temperature-related reasons. We were outside below 60F, and taking off my shirt was a bad move. Blood rushed to where it needed to go, not where I wanted it to.

If you're indoors, it couldn't hurt checking to see if you need to turn up the heat in order to turn up the heat.

Good idea, thanks. It's been fairly warm in her apartment, but I'll try turning things up next time.

I remember when I was a young twenty-something in my first relationship I had a similar issue as well. Even when the condom was right there in my pocket, the whole novelty of opening the foil packet and unrolling the condom over my penis while naked in front of another naked person made me lose the erection the first couple of times.

Things that helped were

  • acceptance, that is, not hiding the problem from my GF. She suggested buying thinner condoms, but I don't know if that was a placebo
  • exposure, that is, getting used to being naked together

I don't remember if I enlisted her help with putting it on the first few successful times, but I remember that the problem went away really quickly after the first successful intercourse.

Thanks for the anecdote. We’re very comfortable naked together. I definitely come up with excuses (tired, too much alcohol, mood was killed) in an attempt to explain it.

I’ll “practice” putting the condom on while by myself to have it not be so novel.

Jack off while wearing condoms to get used to it. Or just don't use condoms during sex given the lack of pregnancy risk, unless one of you has an incurable STD.

Thanks. I’m getting tested soon to ensure this isn’t an issue and will probably try to go down this route.

I’ve abstained from masturbating for a few days before seeing her and it still happens—other times I’m fine but we can’t have sex for various reasons.

I masturbate every 2-3 days.

Hm, I'm no expert on this, but what's the longest you've abstained before attempting? My intuition is that 2-3 days just isn't all that long to build up... whatever it is that gets built up. I'd consider abstaining a minimum of a week, perhaps 2+, before the next attempt. If sexual times with her happens more often than that, then just stop masturbating altogether; you seem to have enough self control to quit porn for 2+ months, after all. And if you know that the only way you're getting off is with her, your body might find the motivation to step up at the opportunity.

Thanks. That’s a fair point. I’ll abstain until the next time we hang out like that.

Random suggestions:

  1. Condom size/shape. I frequently had a similar problem using Durex brand condoms when I first lost my virginity. They took too much effort to get on, while I could use them any hiccup in the process pretty much doomed my erection. I switched to using Trojan Magnums, and have ever since, no issue. Try using a different brand or size, a better fit may solve your problem.

  2. Mechanical reasons. Open your condom packets and set them out beforehand. Sometimes it's as simple as trying to tear the package giving a hard stop to the action. Make sure that getting the condom on is as much a part of the flow of the event as possible.

  3. She comes first. Performance anxiety decreases when you've already done your bit before you get started. You can feel good about yourself already, so whatever happens afterward happens.

  4. Keep her involved in the process. The basics of dirty talk: avant, duré, et apres. Tell her what you're going to do to her, tell her what you're doing to her, tell her what you just did to her. And the same in reverse. This helps keep the flow moving.

  5. Drugs do work, and maybe you just need to sneak one past the goalie to get your head right.

Thanks. Very good points. The flow interruption has definitely been the problem before—I have to go into the other room and grab the condom, but by then I’m already losing it (which seems wayyyyy too short of a time).

I attempted the her coming first last time, but by the end she was just asking to get fucked, so not much to do there. May just have to try harder.

The dirty talk is there, but sometimes makes me feel more pressure about performing, so a double-edged sword.

I’m definitely thinking about just ordering some performance enhancers through Hims to get my head right, like you said. I’m just concerned about a psychological dependence on it… probably worth it once and see where I go from there.

I think my overall problem is not being in the moment. I am just thinking about performing well during the actual sex, is my penis rock hard right now, oh god it’s not what do I do, etc. I’ll definitely try your suggestions and try to think less about what is upcoming and more about what I’m doing now.

I think my overall problem is not being in the moment. I am just thinking about performing well during the actual sex, is my penis rock hard right now, oh god it’s not what do I do, etc

You should set the standard as "we're just having fun" instead of "it's a failure if one of us doesn't orgasm".

Thanks. This is definitely part of the problem. I also have the thought on my mind of "if I can't perform, she will break up with me because sex is important". I've been seeking a relationship for a while and this girl is an absolute catch, so I'm concerned about losing it despite my best efforts outside of the bedroom (going on great dates, emotionally supportive, etc). I care much more about her orgasming than I do myself.

I will try to focus more on the process (fun) than the end result (orgasm). It shouldn't be as serious or crucial as I'm making it out to be.

Have you tried having her put it on (on you, obviously, in case that wasn't clear)?

No, but just because we haven’t gotten to that point. When (manifesting!!!) it happens I will do that. Thanks for the suggestion!

Viagra. It works. Especially if you're a pre-mature infant with pulmonary hypertension, but also if your dick don't stand up straight.

Thanks. It just goes against my perception of myself as a young, healthy guy and I’m concerned about psychological dependence. Probably not a bad idea for the first time or two.

Man, the number of embarrassed "healthy young guys" I've seen with this haha. I presume you're OK with rawdogging? If so, it is likely psychological, and taking the pill once or twice might convince your brain that tolerating eating the lozenge with the wrapper on is worth staying hard strong for next time.

Or you could lay off the porn for long enough that you're raging horny, which should probably work too. But at the end of the day, sildenafil is effective and safe, so you pop that pill and go for it, you've got nothing to lose and no need to tell her either. Just go for the low doses first, it can cause stuffiness and headaches, especially at the higher ones.

but also if your dick don't stand up straight.

For certain cases of that. It doesn't do anything in cases of nervous system being out of order.

I'm addicted to housework (cough)

As none of you might know, I've been trying to kick a legal, infamously moreish habit for the last several months/years, sometimes quitting easily and for months, sometimes struggling to get through the first few days. I was recently reattempting the latter of those two strategies (with minimal cheating, mostly) when I came across gwern's piece on nicotine. It's a good article, my main interest was the idea that nicotine isn't especially addictive, but rather extremely habit forming. Even with nicotine supplements like gum or patches, smokers will chew toothpicks and suckers to simulate a cigarette. Other drugs don't do this; recovering alcoholics don't swig from a flask of tap water imagining it's vodka, methadone patients don't poke sewing needles into their arms pretending it's drugs (unless they do, correct me if I'm wrong on these). [the article has more and I might be misinterpreting things but it works]

With that in mind, and a substantial tolerance break, I decided if I could get myself addicted to self-improvement and/or the feeling of accomplishment. Subconsciously preparing for the role, I'd carefully gained twenty pounds, reduced exercise to ten moderate minutes two or three times a week (plus walking), and steadfastly defended the virtue of the packing tape around 25 U-Haul boxes from my recent move (more than six months ago). I decided to reward myself with my addiction after doing what I felt was an appropriate amount of work (starting with about twenty minutes of cleaning or a couple sets of any exercise, lifting or bodyweight).

I've never cleaned like this before in my life, and it's never felt so easy. I'm always been a slob, I like to keep my place a comfy four (give or take). I never focused and half-assed everything. Now I'm cleaning and unpacking almost all day through and feel like I'm in a trance the whole time. I've never had the attention span for hypnosis but I have to imagine this the next best thing. Interestingly, the activity of cleaning feels nearly as rewarding as my original compulsion, in a similarly satisfying way. I'll often forget if I've indulged because I'm content cleaning, and instead of rewards every twenty minutes I'm going well over an hour as I get distracted by new things to wash and put away. I've been trying to get through some fun articles and videos all day but I can't spend more than a couple minutes seated before I start looking for things to put away or move around.

I'm engaging in the original addiction much less than normal and I'm not even slightly bothered. This wasn't supposed to be a plan to quit but my cravings are weaker, less frequent, and easier to manage. A switch flipped and now it's easy waiting to earn it.

Developing the urge to exercise hasn't been as successful, but I just started this program and haven't had as much reinforcement time. It's easier to reward myself after exercising rather than before, but I've started mixing the reward in between sets to build a stronger connection between habits. I used to lift a lot and I think it will be easy to get back into that groove as I build discipline and diligence. I was initially planning on rewarding myself whenever I felt especially hungry to recapture the fun of my wannarexia days, but now I'm taking the power seriously and worried the effect could be too strong. I'm tying the reward to positive, productive behaviors in general (I hope you think this post qualifies, because it does) so I'm hoping to see improvements over time in multiple areas. So far this project has exceeded expectations dramatically, and the benefits are immediate.

Of course, I've just started, so it's possible I crash, relapse, and give up the scheme entirely. The easiest way for this to happen would be engaging in the reward without practicing a good habit, thus weaking the reinforcement. This is the value of the exercise component. I might mentally bargain my way out of twenty minutes of housework, but forty pushups are quick and keep the reward honest. The new positivity and confidence will help a lot.

I know this post isn't especially useful since I'm only a couple days in, so if there's interest I will try to post an update in the future.

What's the reward, meth?

Wtf, I have never gone anything worse than a 2. And I am a dirty pig who rolls in the mud according to everyone I know.

I think 3 isn't that much worse than 2 except for the stuff on the floor. That's what really makes it bad. If the clutter was just limited to things on tables/counters, it would be messy but not beyond the pale.

Yeah, the stuff on the floor throws the whole thing off. Who throws jackets on the floor in the kitchen?

Yeah 3 is already most of the way to being a hoarder house. The floor is mostly covered by stuff. Walk around in that kitchen and you'll be walking on stuff more than floor.

My scale of dirtiness would start cleaner than this one and end at 4. After 4 it's not really more dirty per se, you're just better at hoarding.

That image just starts at bad and then goes through eight stages of worse.

Come on, the first image is a perfectly tidy (though depressing) house.

There are pots and boxes out in the open and the rug and whatever you call that little piece of cloth on the little table aren't aligned with anything.

By all means, it's not terrible, certainly better than my place, but it doesn't live up to the standards that I was raised to see as baseline.

and the rug and whatever you call that little piece of cloth on the little table aren't aligned with anything

I thought Stackenblocken was a joke, but apparently not.

I just watched a 1-minute youtube video (https://youtube.com/watch?v=QEN5-_93gQg) about it. Here's my thorough critique: It's fake.

  1. Real Germans may be furious about disorder and happy about order, but they will not embarrass themselves by jumping and clapping and screaming in delight upon restoring the natural order of the nightstand.

  2. Stackenblocken is not a real German word, and not even a reasonable portmanteau. Inexcusable. It's almost as if that show had been made to amuse Americans rather than to accurately represent Germans.

  3. The policemen cudgeling the woman for her failure are entirely unrealistic. In real Germany, she would be fined until she had to be imprisoned for her failure to pay.

You mean, the food on the fridge and the pots above the cabinets? That's ordinary storage space and everything is nearly arranged. Where are you supposed to put the pots if the cupboards are full?

The rug looks like carpet to me and thus can't be adjusted.

The tablecloth is rumpled, you got me there. 2/10 would not bang.

Where are you supposed to put the pots if the cupboards are full?

Into additional cupboards. Or into storage where no mortal eyes are ever again laid on them.

Dunno about German houses, but American houses typically have finite cupboards rather than a Hilbert Hotel type of setup.

Can American houses not stand to have new ones installed? If not, then there are too many pots.

Pfft, and you call yourselves a developed country?

I think that says more about you being raised with unreasonable standards than anything. I agree with @sarker that #1 is quite tidy.

He’s German. If there’s anything I’d expect from a German, it’s a meticulously tidy and organized home. I used to know a German lady who even swept her front porch and sidewalk on a daily basis.

Dunno, many family members of mine seem to have no trouble at all maintaining those standards.

I'm a bit curious, how are the rest of you stacking up against that chart?

I've never been above a 2 and I'm a bit of a slob. I don't even think I've been in a home that's at a 4 and I can count the number of threes on one hand.

1, occasionally reaching 2 (when unpacking after trip or in a big hurry)

but even 1 is horrifically depressing room, not for trash reasons

I never seen trash on floor like 3 or worse. I seen paper pile like 4.

(OK, I seen 9 but it was in a service room for garbage dumpster that was emptied too rarely)

I consider myself a terrible slob, and I'm probably a bit below a 2. Even the worst of my friends don't get close to 3.

If you swapped the newspapers for cardboard boxes I have a box room that's at roughly 3 and that's after over a year of using it as a staging area for de/cluttering projects.

I clean the house to floor level roughly once a week and leave the kitchen clean every night.

In a kitchen? Never anything above 1.

I will say my basement and garage can get towards a 2 or a 3, maybe, when I'm getting lazy about it or for project reasons or because I rapidly moved a bunch of stuff out of the upstairs to make room for something. But the kitchen/living room/bedroom floor of my house (essentially a 3br apartment) is always a 1.

Same, 2 at worst. I could go weeks without cleaning anything at all and still not reach 3.

I'm willing to bet that chart is used to diagnose hoarders, and it gives that much variation to trick people into being more comfortable saying, "I'm a six," because six is towards the middle and there are worse options. My grandparent's house had rooms that were between 5 and 10. My grandmother had Alzheimers and would purchase things for her 'baby' (all her children were grown adults) and stuff them in one of the vacated bedrooms until you couldn't enter the room, then start over again in a different bedroom.

Somewhere below 2. I would not describe myself as tidy, I definitely do a crappy job keeping my floors and counters as clean as my neater friends, but I can't imagine just casually leaving pants in the middle of my kitchen. I admittedly do that in the bedroom, but... well, it's the bedroom and the containment of things is just a bit different. I do have a few books and some mail on my desk that I could stand to clean up. But again, there's some measure of containment that I settle into where those are still in the range of "where things go" even if it's not as tidy as it really should be.

Having literal garbage just laying around is, to me, a sign of a slide into complete degeneracy. I am well aware people live that way and yet I still can't believe people just live that way.

Same here. Glad OP is doing more chores, but I can't imagine living over a 2.

There's something about smaller apartments and longer term tenures though.

That chart actually shocked me. I've always been a huge slob, noticeably more so than others I've lived with except my parents who were also (lesser) slobs. And the worst I've lived is a 3, occasionally flirting with 4. To be honest, I feel like 4 and up all fit in a small range of 2 or 3 tiers, and 1-4 there could be expanded to be more like 1-6 or 1-8.

Probably a 2 myself.

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