FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
And every gimmick hungry yob
Digging gold from rock n roll
Grabs the mic to tell us
he'll die before he's sold
But I believe in this
And it's been tested by research
He who fucks nuns
Will later join the church
User ID: 195
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
4hr ago
Idk that version looks annoying to me.
If you don't want to just pay the $10 or borrow it from the library. At any rate the basic concept is something like: Do a bunch of KB swings, do a bunch of Turkish Get Ups. Don't worry too much about doing "more" reps, and don't add weight, just try to do the exercises and keep your muscles under tension. Both Swings and TGUs are exercises where you have to focus on form and they're easy to pretend to do. The program minimum will not take long each week, will work your whole body, will accustom you to lifting weights. If you can master the swing, it gets you ready for everything else, it's the basis of the clean and jerk, the snatch, all the fun stuff.
Buy literally any cast iron 16kg kettlebell. I splurged on Rogue MiUSA ones, but that was after I already loved kettlebells and had spent a ridiculous quantity of time working with them so I didn't mind spending extra, and I was ordering enough stuff from Rogue to get free shipping. I also have some random enameled ones I got at a local store 14 years ago, and some off-brand Amazon ones in heavier weights I ordered because I got free shipping. AVOID GETTING KETTLEBELLS MEASURED IN POUNDS, GET THEM IN THE CLASSIC 8KG INTERVALS. I started with 50#ers I picked up at a local store, and it didn't matter to me at the time, but years later it pissed me off because the classic benchmarks are measured in KG and mine were always a little off.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
5hr ago
You really just need the 16kg to get started, then a few months later the 24kg.
If you catch the bug like me you'll end up with a bunch over the years.
Don't buy an adjustable they're shit and gay.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
7hr ago
So a class that has significant big lifting mixed in is CrossFit. You get competition, you get teaching, and you get lifting and cardio.
For Kettlebells any of the classic Pavel programs from Enter the Kettlebell will work and are simple to follow. Start with a 35#/16kg if you're a normal size man, and work to get to a 24kg/53# in a few months. Stick to the 24kg until you can complete the 100 snatches in ten minutes test. By the time you get there, you'll be in pretty good shape and pretty strong, go back to barbells and you'll be shocked at your strength in the DL and squat.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
8hr ago
Do you have any evidence that is the case, or just speculative? I have to discount the trolling hypothesis, it's kind of evidence free.
At any rate I'm not sure it would really make me feel much better to say 15% of people are super duper innumerate."
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
12hr ago
That's not really a useful way to examine weight classes relative to @WhiningCoil 's assertion that HW is the prestige weight class. HW is the "open" class that any fighter could enter if they were better, they're the "real" champion, any other weight class whether at 200# or 125# is a "fake" champion by comparison. The assertion made wasn't "people like watching bigger fellas" it is "people like watching the 'real' champion, not a 'fake' champion protected by weight class regulations."
The real pattern you see is that fans like watching fights with great champions and great challengers, they like seeing great athletes compete against other great athletes, regardless of weight. This holds throughout boxing history: HW was big when you had multiple challengers passing the belt around in the Ali-Frazier-Foreman era, and decayed when the Klitschko's dominated it; Leonard, Duran, Hagler, and Hearns made middleweight great and their fights are still legendary today. Mayweather has the biggest three purses of all time. It's how it works.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
12hr ago
The existence of weight classes proves that the featherweight's objective!weakness is high-status.
That's why I brought up Topuria specifically, because he is in a smaller weightclass on a UFC scale, but at his walking around weight he is essentially an average American male. In my view, that makes him objectively athletic, because he's outperforming the majority of men. And the market agrees! The most famous UFC fighters of all time are Connor Macgregor and GSP, who fought primarily at 155 and 170 respectively. The highest earning divisions have historically been between 155 and 205, rarely above or below. There's a deeper and more interesting talent pool that puts on good fights.
The assertion regarding lower-weightclass athletes or female athletes that:
It wouldn't take much for the average man to outperform her.
Is the purest fentanyl-strength copium. I know a few dozens of women that climb 5.13b, that's not a trivial achievement for a man. Neither is a 3:13 marathon, or sinking three pointers, or playing scratch golf even from the women's tees, or any number of other female athletic achievements we see.
Really, I agree with you that athletics is about status, but I don't think the adverb "objective" belongs anywhere near the adjective athletic. Because there is no being "athletic" in some platonic ideal sense, there is only being more athletic than and less athletic than. And the question as to calling someone athletic when we get into weight classes, women's divisions, "master's" age classes, is probably whether such people are either "more athletic than the average person" or "more athletic than the expectation."
So I guess the status I'm interested in conferring on others when I call them athletic is that they are more athletic than you'd expect.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
1d ago
@PutAHelmetOn ((Because I'll cite back to this in my reply to you))
This is less true than you think it is in modern fight sports.
Average Purse for Boxing By Weight Class:
🔹Heavyweight: $20M
🔹Bridgerweight: $1M
🔹Cruiserweight: $3M
🔹Light Heavyweight: $5M
🔹Super Middleweight: $25M
🔹Middleweight: $2M
🔹Jr Middleweight: $3M
🔹Welterweight: $10M
🔹Super Lightweight $5M
🔹Lightweight $15M
🔹Super Featherweight $1M
🔹Featherweight $1M
🔹Super Bantamweight $4M
🔹Bantamweight $1.5M
🔹Super Flyweight $2M
🔹Flyweight $500K
🔹Jr Flyweight $1M
🔹Minimumweight $200k
You clearly see that Super Middleweight (168#) tops the charts, and that lightweight and welterweight are both vastly higher than any of the weights between Super Mid and Heavy.
For the UFC, the top ten highest paid fighters of all time includes four heavyweights, but also two lightweights top the list and it also features middleweights and welterweights. In the UFC in particular, among fight fans HW is often seen as a bit of a sideshow, with a shallow talent pool and sloppy fights; the biggest stars and best fights have normally been between 155# and 205#, where the fighters tend to land at "normal male" heights of between 5'9" and 6'2".
That's what more fans are tuning in for, rather than the Universal Championship at HW.
Historically in Boxing the Heavyweight Championship was the ne plus ultra of sports, but back then your heavyweight champions were Rocky Marciano at 5'10" 190#, and Mohammed Ali at 6'3" 226#, a big fella but not a mass monster by any means. I'm on the bigger side for my BJJ gym, and I'm a few pounds bigger than Marciano; the biggest couple guys in the gym are significantly larger than Ali.
The problem might be talent pools: basketball and the NFL soak up too many of the really athletic big fellas. Jalen Carter or Micah Parsons might be HW contenders if they had trained for it, but they make twice that fight purse a season in the NFL; and forget what guys like Lebron and Luka make in the NBA without getting hit in the head too often.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
1d ago
Sports are contact with reality. Just as Jackie Robinson and Mohammed Ali were the the most important figures in the Civil Rights movement; Nikola Jokic and Cooper Flagg are going to cause a crisis in American culture within a few years.
The most important myth that lifting destroys is learned helplessness: starting lifting is the experience of putting in effort and seeing results. There's a strong debate about privilege hidden under there, in that for some people it will be easier than me and that for some people it will be harder than me, but for everyone there is effort put in and there are results.
Most women I know can't move a couch or other large furniture (yes some of this is driven by social class and racial dynamics and so on) but if she can you are doing good!
Find yourself a strong beautiful Slavic woman.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
1d ago
Do you have the same feeling about weight classes? Would you say that the flyweight UFC Champion is athletic? Would it be accurate to call him tough, despite weighing 125# (fighting weight) at 5'5"? Or is it inaccurate in the same way "athletic woman" is inaccurate because he would be toast against any higher weight class fighter? What about Ilia at featherweight, 145# fighting weight and 5'7", but reportedly closer to 180# walking around, who probably stunts on most average men but would be similarly stomped by a LHW or HW UFC fighter? Or do we consider p4p for men, but not women?
This kind of discussion confuses me sometimes, because a lot of men who aren't running 3hr marathons and can't climb 5.13b and can't sink a three pointer on an open basketball court love to shitpost about how stupid the idea of an athletic woman is. The existence of someone better doesn't seem to preclude the use of the word athletic in my mind.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
1d ago
Sure, but I'd imagine she does so more rarely than most women. Men she meets frequently comment on her shockingly strong handshake.
But the margin between my wife and I is obvious, because we lift together. I'm aware that her max is my warmup weight, and that her forgetting to rerack her weights is just annoying to me, while if I forget to rerack my weights she's basically helpless to clean up my deadlift.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
1d ago
Have any of you guys tried it? Did it make you feel noticably different? Was it easy to quit? Any suggestions regarding dosage?
I've long been an occasional cigar or drunk-cigarette smoker, like a couple times a year. I never felt any compulsion to smoke regularly. Last year I tried Zyns. I quite like them. They deliver a pleasant buzz and burst of energy when doing something, give a little hint of taste to stimulate me without calories or the gallon of diet coke or green tea I'd drink on a long drive, they're totally unobtrusive when walking around, and there's not really any gross residue. I use them a couple times a week, and rarely more than one a day. I've never gotten a craving or a headache on a day I don't use them.
But I perceive that I have a non-addictive personality when it comes to substances (less so when it comes to other things). I just don't ever really feel the urge to use weed or alcohol or nicotine. So Your Mileage May Very Very Much Vary.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
1d ago
One of my favorite examples: Americans trying to estimate the size of minority groups.
Americans routinely think that 20% of Americans are making $1mm a year, are transgender, are Jewish, are Muslim, are East Asian, live in NYC, are Bisexual, live in Texas. The proportions they attribute to tiny minorities are literally impossible to square with each other, unless you assume some huge number of trans millionaire bisexual Chinese Jews splitting their time between Dallas and Manhattan.
While they routinely think that only two thirds of Americans own a car, have flown on a plane, or received a high school diploma
Whites, homeowners, Christians all also lose significant percentage points in estimation.
What's most fascinating to me is that Conservative Republicans, who can broadly speaking be assumed to be more pro-white and anti-gay and anti-Muslim, are more likely to vastly overestimate the number of gay people and Black people and Muslims in the country, while actual Black people gay people and Muslims tend to underestimate it.
People are innumerate.
I think he comes across as blaming the world for giving him a false impression and thinks the world should change to fit his neurotype
More that he has built his life in a way where the maximum required level of strength for any task he performs is within the range of a reasonably athletic woman. My wife is in great shape, we can move furniture together in most Craigslist pickup cases. If "moving a couch" was the most strength I ever expected to display in life, I wouldn't really have much of a test to prove one way or the other how strong my wife is relative to me. I don't know that I would even call this author to help me move, so he might be below that level of maximum displayed strength. Jean ValJean never reveals himself if he never sees that cart in the street.
Certainly if this man is as wildly unathletic as he purports himself to be, he would experience hearing from PMC women in his circle about athletic feats they've performed that he would be unable to perform, with very little context for what he might be capable of. Hell, I know a half dozen women who have qualified for the NYC Marathon which in my age range is a 3:13 Marathon, and I sure can't do that. If I never looked up the qualifying times for men, I'd just hear that they ran a marathon in three hours and change, which would also be a pretty good time for a hobbyist man, and assume that if women tried they are just as good. Similarly in rock climbing, I know lots of women who could smash everyone in this forum by grade.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
1d ago
Exactly.
None of this actually increased the rights I had in college, instead it narrows them further.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
My question is how you guys keep this kind of routine up for any extended period of time.
Suggestions:
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You might just not like the Stronglifts format. I used 5x5 when I started, and it's very valuable for getting started, but rarely have I gone back to it over the decade since. Mostly, I find something like the Bulgarian Lite method, where I'm trying to hit a PR on something. Rarely do my lifting sessions last longer than 45 minutes. When they do, it's normally that I am enjoying them.
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You might not like barbells. Try kettlebells instead. They're easy to store and use at home, they encourage a certain degree of "owning the weight" and focus on reps and density rather than increasing weight, they're a little more explosive and athletic and fun than the classic powerlifts.
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There's no real reason you have to or should keep the same routine for longer than three to six months. You're likely to start to stall out after more than twelve weeks on the same routine. At that point, you should always be switching to a new routine, whether that's the same format with new lifts, the same lifts with a new format, something other than weightlifting entirely, just something new that you're stoked on. In the past year or so I've focused on the barbell clean and jerk, the moonboard, the kettlebell pentathlon, push pressing a 97lb kettlebell for 32 consecutive reps, hitting a max on the Landmine Jerk, and for the last four months on BJJ. I still mess around with the other exercises in between, but I'm only ever focused on advancing one at a time. When I start getting bored of one, I move on to the next. I'm 33 and I'm not making the olympics in anything so what does it matter if my progress is slower? I'm getting strong and having fun.
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You might like more of a social/class format like Crossfit. Crossfit is where I started lifting, at any decent box you will get good at the big lifts, and I think most of the people talking shit on it are either fat or not nearly as strong as your average Crossfitter.
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Home gym master race.
Because it isn't overvalued, it isn't expensive, it doesn't take up much time done right. Lifting weights and working out is massively undervalued, it's the best thing you can do for yourself. Strength is the master trait that makes everything else easier. Rock climbing, when I took it up, was easier because I was strong; BJJ is easier because I was strong when I started; team sports and living your life in general will be better and easier. The only thing it makes worse is getting dressed.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
I don't think "Republicans" or "Democrats" are the right unit of analysis. The Anti-Woke are just a portion of Republicans, and the philosemitic and Woke are just portions of Democrats. The Anti-Woke see an opportunity to use the weapons developed by the Woke against them by mobilizing the normie Republicans and the Philosemitic Democrats against the Woke. There's a risk that when the Anti-Woke seek to abandon the tactic, that they'll have accustomed the normies to the idea that college kids can suffer grave consequences for making people uncomfortable.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
The key is to encourage multi-sport focus rather than elite specialization. IMHO.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
Exactly.
So if irreversibility is a necessary condition for classifying something as chemical castration... than it seems that chemical castration does not meet the standard.
I think the problem with this standard where puberty blockers are concerned is that nothing is reversible.
I listened to Lex Friedman's interview with Aella some time back, and part of her personal history was growing up in a very strict evangelical Christian household. She never went through a "normal" process of sexual development, learning to date and grow into herself. Instead, she ran away from home and got...this. And no amount of careful effort would have allowed her to experience the way a normal person grows up, and certainly it is impossible to do so now.
Similarly, a kid who starts puberty two or three or five years late is going to have a very different experience than a kid who follows a "natural" puberty. We already know this because the experience of hitting puberty early or late is understood as critical to and generative of people's personalities. I didn't really hit puberty until later than some kids, though earlier than others, and I've no doubt if you moved that number around a few years either way you get a vastly different FiveHour. Two years earlier and maybe I make the high school baseball team and go through high school a varsity jock; two years later and maybe I'm not really ready to blossom in college and socially become more of an outcast, certainly never meeting my wife.
When they talk about puberty blockers being reversible, what they mean (at best) is that the kid will still go through some version of puberty. But it will never be the puberty that would have been, it's impossible that it would be, and I'm fairly certain that later than one's peers is for the most part worse outside of random unlikely chance. They'd be 13 when they are 16, and 16 when they are 20. I don't know that society is going to be set up for that.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
For me, the construction quality is the most important quality, which is why I chose a macbook four years ago.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
I see the appeal from a Trump/anti-woke perspective, all the enemies lined up behind an unpopular position they we probably can beat universities into punishing relatively easily. I'm wondering where this goes afterwards.
The question in my mind is where you situate anti-semitism discourse relative to wokeness.
One framing of this is that the Trump admin and rightists are using anti-semitism to Judo-throw the woke, using the Woke's own narratives of protecting besieged minorities to destroy the Woke, and ultimately in the process discrediting the idea of protecting minority fee-fees and removing it from the discourse. Like Treize Khushrenada, the anti-woke will use the Woke's weapons against them, and in the process the weapons will all be destroyed and we'll have peace.
Alternatively, the anti-Woke are reifying the Woke narrative by utilizing it. We're all embedded in the narrative of protecting the feelings of minority students from the political positions of their fellow students. We're valorizing the idea that students can and should be expelled, arrested, their degrees revoked, for saying something "offensive" to a minority group. Rather than the Republicans engaging in clever Judo to reverse-flip the Woke into a bad position, rather the Woke have trapped the Republicans into fighting in their paradigm: Republicans have no engaged the Woke in their own field, where the Woke have the advantage.
We'll have to see what happens.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
The right-wing base doesn't generally shout their opinions from a soapbox in the same way, and therefore isn't as vulnerable to this.
Other than, you know, that one time in DC. And that one time in Charlottesville. And if they own a pickup truck, the bumper stickers and flags. Or the T Shirts. And the rallies.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
I never even said they opposed it. Merely that they were frightened of it happening to them.
I might or might not oppose Stop and Frisk but I know it's not happening to me either way. If it started happening to me in my town, I might consider moving, whether or not I opposed it in principle.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
Did the previous administration do that to random travelers and immigrants, or are you referring to something else?
Because, yes, if I were an immigrant, stricter enforcement at ICE would be a bigger concern for me than virtually anything else when deciding where to live.
I don't think this concept is exclusive to the modern obesity epidemic, or that it will end with the Ozempic era. The concept of the butterface, a woman with a great rack and an ugly face, exists in earlier men's writing, but it's a crass concept that only a real horndog male would talk about, and up until recently that wasn't the kind of stuff that was typically written down, and if it was written down it wasn't the type of stuff that typically survived. Certainly if you read Playboy issues from the 50s and 60s the idea of a woman with great ass tits and a mediocre face comes up pretty often, typically as a desirable temporary partner but less marriageable.
Especially given the variable impact that weight loss will have on breasts, the varying adequacy of surgical substitution, and the known tendency of women to go too far with it, and the general degradation and crassness of modern culture, guys are still going to talk about butterfaces.
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