FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
And every gimmick hungry yob
Digging gold from rock n roll
Grabs the mic to tell us
he'll die before he's sold
But I believe in this
And it's been tested by research
He who fucks nuns
Will later join the church
User ID: 195
Good strategy to imitate the Taliban, now if only they could raise the perception that their enemies excuse child molesters in their midst...
It's not that simple to delineate one classic as the anchor of a language and another as outside of that. Certainly Shakespeare and the KJV are the bedrock of modern English, but everything within the canon serves a purpose as a bridge from here to there. Austen is much more accessible to the modern reader than the KJV or Hamlet, and reading things like Pride and Prejudice will prepare you for reading Shakespeare. Reading Austen serves much the same purpose, really, because Jane Austen read Shakespeare and the KJV. It's not about preserving one work and not others, it's about preserving the connective tissue that makes a living tradition with our ancestors.
My seventh grade English teacher had a big chart on her wall that some past class had made, with literary and intellectual movements stacked on top of each other, with their themes and what they were reacting against in the past movement. The writers of the Enlightenment were reacting against the religiosity and irrationalism of the medieval period, the Romantics were reacting against how boring the Enlightened rationalists were, Realism reacted against how goofy the Romantics were, Modernism and Absurdism reacted against Realism's limitations, etc. An extremely Hegelian view of literature. Everything exists within a context.
When you start editing original texts, you get stuff like this. The old teen girl book series Pretty Little Liars has been "updated" in the latest releases, including e-books apparently purchased in the past and stored in the cloud, to include modern references. At least, that's the stuff girls noticed, I wouldn't be surprised if slurs that would have been mildly edgy in 2003 were edited out in 2020. Now I'll grant you that PLL isn't a core work of the literary canon, but the only way this kind of thing doesn't happen is if people at least try to prevent it. I don't want to be hunting for particular editions of a book to make sure it's the real text and not recent politically correct innovations.
Yeah I guess I've never had the most sophisticated military in history targeting me, but it seems shortsighted to pick a guy you will need to replace later. Coaching changes always produce instability.
Iran's new Supreme Leader is either maimed, on his death bed, or already dead.
So why did they pick him? It seems like such an odd thing to do. I mean, some scarring, fine, "disfigured, vengeful, homosexual Ayatollah" is a pretty funny villain for a Saturday morning cartoon. But if he's dying or dead, why not just pick someone else? Unless the USA got him right after he was picked, but then the USA would tell us the particular strike I would think? They were saying he was dead before it was confirmed he was even picked.
How exactly am I preventing you from doing so? If such a modernized abridged Austen existed, I wouldn't go to the Barnes and noble at the mall with my buddies from jiu jitsu and take every copy and throw it in the river.
I (and those similarly situated and opinionated) would probably vaguely sneer at it as degenerate or childish. I would probably judge someone negatively for reading it if I saw it, the same way I judge people I see reading Bill o Reilly "killing" books or White Fragility or Heated Rivalry. Maybe if I got worked up I'd write a tweet or a substack essay or an effort post about it, but probably not. I would view such a thing as a slippery slope towards the English speaking peoples, my people, being estranged from our own heritage. That would not lead me to violent action, I am after all not Italian, but I would sneer and gatekeep.
Given that you know that such would be my reaction, your objection seems to be that the possibility of that sneering prevents such a work from being published? But why should I withhold judgment of something I believe would harm my cultural heritage to enhance your convenience?
Gatekeeping is good, actually.
I should have specified modern English, roughly Shakespeare to today, but I felt that would be more confusing than useful.
Frankly, I don't care about the "history of English language". Neither do I care about "[your] heritage". I am afterall not English (or anglo- anything).
If you don't care about me or my heritage, I don't see why I have to care about you or your convenience. If you want an easy reading for the non-native English speaker, read it in translation, which you've pointed out exists and is easier for you.
Do you really think that people should have to read the second instead of the third when the first is not an option?
I don't really see how the third is a massive improvement over the first. The first simply seems to be an option to me, and I'm comfortable with the idea of gatekeeping here. By putting in the effort to read the first, you can easily come to understand the sentence structure and the meaning of the word "handsome" in context, which will help you read other works in the same period without needing translation. With a modicum of effort, these things evaporate for you.
I, of course, will never have a meaningful opinion on Homer or Tolstoy by my own standard. Awkward, as those are some of my favorite works, and I have an effortpost on them in the hopper, but alas. I am not perfect.
Taking your question in a totally different direction: the essential Romantic Comedies to watch to survey the genre
-- Love Affair (1939) or An Affair to Remember (1957). The classic, referenced in Sleepless in Seattle among other places, caught both on Turner Classic Movies when I watched a lot of it while studying for the LSAT. The climactic scenes are iconic for a reason. They're the same movie, watch the earlier one if you prefer a suave French protagonist, the latter if you prefer him American.
-- How to Marry a Millionaire Three young women cynically try to ensnare themselves a rich husband. Hijinks ensue. Marilyn Monroe at the point where you understand how she was able to single handedly launch Playboy and be the love of Joltin' Joe Dimaggio's life while also schtupping the President and the attorney general. If you like this, you can explore 50s comedies like Some Like it Hot.
-- Marriage, Italian Style Prime Sophia Loren and Marcelo Mastroianni. An irresponsible Italian playboy has a multi-decade romance with a beautiful prostitute. The acting is so good, the costumes so beautiful, and the setting so charming. If you like this Marcelo and Sophia made a whole pile of movies together.
-- Annie Hall Woody Allen's best, at his most neurotic. Don't watch this unless you can handle an intensely Jewish experience, but it's essential, however much it might be denied elsewhere. Woody Allen, like Phillip Roth, captures something of the darkest nature of male heterosexuality in a light and funny way. If you like this, Woody Allen made about a dozen rom-coms that all rank among the best ever.
-- What's Up Doc? Streisand presages the manic pixie dream girl, trying to snatch a straight laced man away from his boring and bitchy fiancee. A rollicking farce that ends with a madcap chase scene that I watched a million times on VHS with my sister.
-- When Harry Met Sally The GOAT. Simply the best Romantic Comedy of all time. Two acquaintances go from dislike, to friends, to companions, to lovers, over years and years. Ships passing in the night. The writing is good, the chemistry is perfect, and the interviews with elderly couples about how they met are sappy and sweet. If you like this, Meg Ryan did Sleepless in Seattle, You've Got Mail.
-- Sixteen Candles You need one of the John Hughes 80s classics, and I think Candles is better than Pretty in Pink and more of a pure romcom than The Breakfast Club, though I would also recommend TBC as a great film. Molly Ringwald turns 16, and through the homecoming dance gets the boy of her dreams. Watch it purely for Long Duc Dong, the exchange student often decried as a politically incorrect racist caricature, but who winds up with a STACKED white volleyball player by the end of the movie, so he does pretty well for himself I think.
-- Moonstruck Cher and Nicholas Cage star, and it's fascinating seeing Nick Cage in this offbeat part long before he'd be a bankable star for National Treasure type schlock. Intensely 80s, intensely NYC Italian. Cher is engaged to a schlubby man, but in order to complete the marriage must reconcile him to his brother, Nick Cage, who doesn't speak to his brother after losing his hand in an accident. Nick, of course, falls for Cher.
-- Mystic Pizza Three teenage girls in Mystic, Connecticut work at a pizza place, hang out, fall in love, get married, make mistakes. The paying the babysitter scene is the single greatest most gut wrenching scene in the entire RomCom genre. Julia Roberts at her best, better than Pretty Woman imo, though Mrs. FiveHour hates her teeth too much to pay attention to anything else. Slice of life New England stuff on top of the rest of it. Coming of age comedies don't come much better than this.
-- Tin Cup Kevin Costner did a whole pile of sports romcoms, I think this is the best, though Bull Durham gives me my personal text for the "IN THIS HOUSE WE BELIEVE..." sign in my front lawn. Costner is a burnout loser golf course pro, who is inspired by losing his lady love to a straitlaced PGA tour pro to go win the US Open with his caddy Cheech. Filled with bon mots, it's a great sports movie in addition to a great romcom, with the climactic scene capturing something essentially masculine in a way that can be tough to do in a romcom format.
-- Four Weddings and a Funeral The film that launched Hugh Grant's career. A group of friends see each other at weddings over the years, their lives evolve and change, romance blooms. NEVER EVER LET YOUR FIANCEE DO WEDDING SHOPPING WITHOUT YOU, HUGH GRANT WILL FIND HER AND STEAL HER FROM YOU. The writing in this is just so good, it's only flaw is that I find the female lead so unattractive as to be unfuckable, I'd probably sleep with 90s Hugh Grant first. The charmingly disheveled vibe that Hugh Grant carries through the film is what every man wishes he could be.
-- Can't Hardly Wait Not a pure romcom, but one of the essential 1990s teen movies, which even at the time tried to be aggressively of its time. The whole film takes place over the course of a single party summer after senior year of high school. The iconic image of the high school rager, the wigger poser, the high school rock band drama. Gorgeous storytelling in this film, captures a vibe of the 90s like nothing else.
-- High Fidelity (2000) The film that best captures the essence of hipsterism, the dominant cultural force for much of white America from 2005-2015 or so. A fascinatingly misanthropic male lead, and Jack Black in the role that launched his career. John Cusack is a sad sack record store owner, whose best friends are his employees Jack Black and the other guy I don't remember, who he doesn't really pay much so much as they sit around and bullshit about the Smiths and the Jesus and Mary Chain all day.
-- Crazy Stupid Love Probably the most recent great romcom I can think of. Ensemble cast with intersecting stories ending in a giant farce. Does a good job of deconstructing the early PUA genre. If you like this, Steve Carrell did a lot of this kind of stuff, 40 Year Old Virgin and Date Night are pretty good. Stories intersect from Carrell's wife cheating on him and Carrell trying to find his masculinity again, with Ryan Gosling stepping in as PUA mentor. Romcom self referential, and emblematic of the best the genre has had to offer after 2003 or so.
Of course, I assume this means that you in turn can read eg. Dostoevsky in the original Russian editions without problems, right? Afterall, by your measure anything else would be "bowdlerization".
I don't claim to be literate in Russian. You got me there.
But more to the point I simply cannot understand this view where nobody, not even non-native speakers, should be allowed to have an easier to read version available for them that stays authentic to the original's spirit and it would be better that all those people not read at all such books.
Because with a little effort, one can read Austen in the original, and by struggling through one or two such books in the original, one can learn to read them. And by doing so one unlocks the entire history of the English language. And such efforts are what keeps the entire concept of the English language stable and keeps it from drifting permanently into low slang and ebonics.
Languages are defined and anchored by the great works of literature that the literate members of the linguistic group are expected to read and understand. Dante in Italian, Homer for the Greeks, Virgil in Latin, Goethe in German. The English that God has blessed us with has remained remarkably stable from Shakespeare to today. I can attend a Shakespeare play and with a little inference from context clues get what is being said.
But this process requires collective effort to maintain. And when we create shortcuts, like "updating" Austen's language, we destroy that effort, we would permanently cut off that part of our heritage. We would be left with people unable to read the Declaration, the Federalist Papers, John Stuart Mill, the Gettysburg Address.
We've already mostly lost this to wokeness and ignorance, with the literary canon in tatters. For decades every American public high school student was forced to read Shakespeare at least a little to pass, now it's been replaced with modern identitarian garbage. Was there ever a time where the majority of Americans could read the Great Books? Maybe not, but there existed a literate culture that could. We're in danger enough of losing that as it is, and maybe it's all irrelevant in the age of AI. But it was a beautiful thing while it lasted.
So please, leave me Austen.
Goddamn elitists…
Checking in.
If you can't read Austen you aren't really literate in English. Annotations are fine, adaptations are fine, but you should be able to read it without some Reader's Digest bowdlerization of it.
I just finished the bound copy of selected Canterbury Tales. I was doing a tale a day, and today was the Prioress, and, weird. It was just a blood libel story. A Christian kid really loves the virgin Mary, and some Jews take exception to it and murder him and throw him in a latrine. Miracles occur and the body is found and the Jews are punished.
It's such an odd inclusion in a set of tales I mostly associate with humorous tales of disloyal wives and dishonest preachers. I guess it's just the times? But it's so vicious! Is it satirical? It doesn't seem so. I guess "also Jews are evil and Satan lives in their hearts" is just a message Chaucer also wanted to include?
I'm not sure if I'm kidding around. It seems more likely than any of what appear to be the plans for the end of the war by the participants involved, which are some mix of "and then the people rise up" and "and then the Zionist conspiracy collapses" with a dash of ”Jesus Christ returns (and is on my side)."
I'm starting to think this ends with oil royalties being spread around to make it look like everybody got something.
So our argument in favor of sane war planning is that it incorporates an idea our 80 year old president first fixated on 40 years ago, when he had no military experience or advice. Gotcha.
I doubt 1 in 10 of our soldiers would tolerate fighting like the Taliban did, without medivac, without armour, without sophisticated training, without airpower, without all our advanced technology.
Certainly not for Aghanistan.
Sure but at some point, whether it's a week from now or a year from now, ships will try it again en masse, and either Iran will hit one or they won't, and then either the Strait is open or everyone goes back to their corners.
For a while during the Ukraine conflict, Ukraine was still getting royalties on Russian pipelines running through Ukrainian territory.
Imagine a goof-ass future where the United States occupies Iran's export terminals and charges Iran royalties to export oil, while the Gulf states pay bribes to Iran to keep Hormuz open. Everyone hates each other but can't afford a war anymore. Trump gets a nobel peace prize, but whines that it should be called the Donald Strait.
I appreciate your response but I won't be engaging with you on this.
Then don't reply.
There was a plan back in the Kennedy admin to drop leaflets on Cuba warning the men that the presence of nuclear weapons on the island would cause so much radiation that it would make them impotent.
The new Supreme Leader is rumored to have been impotent.
Why do you think that press releases are a reflection of the true plan?
Because that's been the expectation of every American president in wartime basically forever. That the president and his administration would clearly communicate the causes of the war, the motivations behind the actions of the war, the aims of the war. To do otherwise is morally unacceptable to me.
To accept that Trump has a plan but is lying to us about it repeatedly is to accept the status of subject rather than citizen, to be a slave rather than a man. "L'etat? C'est lui!" You seem to draw some line that Trump is lying to the press, he isn't lying to the press, he's lying to us.
I'm not anti-Trump or against regime change in Iran in principle, but I'm not going to "trust the plan." That's un-American.
Because we have 4% unemployment, so every soldier payed to go overseas vacates a job in America, which will then need to increase wages to attract workers, which will then lead to increased bribes to attract soldiers. I suppose in the short term one can outrun the wheel of inflation, but not in the long term.
I'd imagine most oil tanker crewmen are braver men than me, but if they told me I was sailing through there... I'd hop out and swim to shore.
I highly suspect the few ships that have transited are paying bribes in crypto to IRGC grand poobahs. Which might be the ultimate result of the whole thing.
Bribes won't work in a prosperous capitalist economy, you can't just pump money into the demand for young workers without driving the price up prohibitively.
If pure manpower is a concern for the USA, the best route would obviously be the Roman one: we've got millions of able bodied men dying to become American citizens at the border.
The problem for the American military is that the all volunteer army is what makes the army so damn effective. Once you start impressing low human capital into the army, you lose effectiveness in a hurry.
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Lindsey Graham forces us into a war with the gay Ayatollah, Schearer said something about how the Roehm era S.A. was riven by the kind of bitter interpersonal strife only possible among homosexuals.
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