FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
And every gimmick hungry yob
Digging gold from rock n roll
Grabs the mic to tell us
he'll die before he's sold
But I believe in this
And it's been tested by research
He who fucks nuns
Will later join the church
User ID: 195
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
1d ago
Whelp, negative WW update this week. Wrestling focused class 8pm last night. It's late everyone is tired but we're pushing it. I match up with an 18 year old who's a national level competitor, but I've got 70 pounds on him. I actually typically enjoy rolling with him, it's speed and skill and ferocity against sheer size and strength, like some Planet Earth clip of a Wolverine fighting a moose.
He tried to hit a pretty basic slide by and idk what happened but his elbow caught me in the upper lip and my lip cut open bad. Million to one shot, never seen it happen before. I immediately went to bathroom to look and the sucker was deep, so I cleaned up, told the coach I wouldn't be in tomorrow, and went to an urgent care. Six stitches later, I think I'm on a liquid diet for a while and a couple weeks out of BJJ.
Anyway with a huge ugly cut on my lip, what are some good quotes about scars to throw out there? I've already burned through The Replacements and Fight Club in the gym group chat, and I'm probably going to need a bon mot for everyone I speak to today.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
1d ago
Okay that was pretty great.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
1d ago
No. She's never been interested in that, for a variety of reasons.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
but I'm afraid you did this yourself a while back with your precise definition of tackiness. I realized that throughout the rest of that thread I was very careful to use alternate language whenever I was tempted to say tacky in a context that didn't fit your definition, which made me realize that, as fun as your definition was, it didn't really reflect how people talk in real life.
On the one hand I'm flattered anyone remembers my writing.
On the other, this comment really makes me step back, in that I had a lot of fun writing out an elaborate definition of tacky, and thought I was doing so in good fun towards an enlightening descriptive view of reality; when apparently an intelligent reader would interpret the comment as a proscriptive definition.
Raising the questions: Am I bad writer? Or are the people I think are using too elaborate definitions also just having fun and hanging out?
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
Also, I'm curious for your thoughts on the polyamory debate? I actually considered tagging you but didn't want to call you out hah.
Well, now that you're asking, my current opinion on Polyamory is very 2007:
Labels are for soup cans
Any attempt to create new rules for human sexuality seems to me to ultimately turn into an attempt to create opportunities to rules lawyer around human sexuality. A certain class of person tries to use the creation of a community or a movement around human sexuality to find opportunities to badger people into having sex with them even if they don't want to. Free love, polyamory, parts of the gay rights movement, much of the trans rights movement.
I never really had any interest in the community aspects of polyamory, or the whole lifestyle/polycule thing, for that reason. It mostly seemed like an elaborate way for people to take advantage of each other. There was a time in college I enjoyed reading stuff like Dan Savage or Sex at Dawn, and I don't think much of the theoretical case can be easily brushed aside, but I was never a true believer in the concept.
For me and my wife, bringing a girl home for a threesome occasionally was a lot of fun, but is now largely a hobby we no longer have time for, like golf or backpacking. Our adventures in bringing in an extra girl were fun, formed excellent memories and long lasting friendships, and lead to remarkably little drama. I highly recommend it if you get the chance, much like the Grand Canyon, it's one of the few things in life that doesn't disappoint.
I do have to laugh and think of Solon's advice to Croesus when I read these rose-tinted takes on the joys of lifelong monogamy in posts dunking on the plyggies.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
In some ways yes, in others no.
I mean, yes, social media and all.
But there's other recompense. It's a lot socially easier and more common to be a single mother without a husband and simply offer no explanation for where the kids came from.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
That being said, I am hopeful that the uneasy alliance between the new conservative, Trumpian movement and traditional Christians is finally fracturing. To bring in another CW point, Trump recently posted an AI generated image of himself as the Pope. This understandably pissed off a lot of Christians, and led to them ending their support for Trump's antics. (I happen to be one of them.)
May I ask why? I'm a Catholic, and not a particular fan of Trump, and I found the picture both inevitable and mildly amusing. I'm seemingly one of the few big fans of the late Pope Francis, and of the papacy in general, but "I should be pope" just seems in the universe of a mildly irreverent joke. In the same way that a local church used to have a sign up saying they were looking for a new pastor, and I joked about applying. If anything, joking about becoming the Pope is, in my mind, a positive in that it places the papacy as a position of value.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
You're correct, but so am I.
You can, but effectively no one does.
There are levels to this. There are Mennonite churches that welcome outsiders for worship. If you join one, buy a farm, and earnestly pursue integration for years I'm saying they'll probably accept you. Going deeper into even more traditional communities will require years more of credibility, which is why I'd suggest starting with the "lighter" communities within the plain folk and working your way deeper: it's easier to imagine a tech bro becoming a Mennonite and it's easy to imagine a Mennonite joining an Amish community.
Don't get me wrong this is a ten to fifteen year family project.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
I think the good old fashioned affair has gone into decline.
When my dad and I drive down a certain highway about 50 minutes south of me, he always points out a house and says "That's where used to put up his mistress and their secret kids."
You don't see that much these days at the small town Pennsylvania level.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
Cheers.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
I haven't kept up with him too much lately, I last heard of him when he announced he was getting a divorce which has gotta be two years ago now.
In general I remember liking Rod when he was one of the first Hipster Orthodox right wing writers I knew in his TAC days, just before the Benedict Option came out.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
A lot of young men today have rightly rejected the old “just be yourself” lie and embraced the call to “improve yourself.” That’s a good shift. You see more of them focusing on fitness, career goals, and personal discipline. But that growth often stalls out when it comes to relationships—especially with women. They’ve learned how to level up, but not how to move toward someone.
The problem here seems to be one of active vs passive virtues. One becomes strong in the weightroom through developing active virtues: discipline, endurance of pain, consistency, intelligence and research. One avoids being a creep or a fornicator or a player, on the other hand, through passive virtues: not doing anything bad, resisting temptation, not saying the wrong thing.
The problem being that the passive virtues are maximized by never doing anything. One can never rape if one never has sex. One can never say the wrong thing if one never talks. One can never hurt anyone if one never moves.
I recall reading somewhere that one should compare one's aspirations against a corpse, and if the corpse would be good at what you're aspiring for, you should reject those aspirations and find new ones, because your aspirations are anti-life. This is the problem here: the evangelical teenage boy has been taught chastity is a virtue, but chastity is a virtue best practiced by the dead, and the Good Christian Boy who never causes trouble with girls is often revealed to be homosexual or to lack healthy desire altogether. We're only just now grappling with how to deal with this question.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
The concepts are coherent, and even if heavily misused, their proper applications are still relevant.
Notice how my sentence ends:
when they're used as conclusions or insults without extensive structural arguments justifying why they are true.
The cruelty is the point can be justified in numerous ways as a phrase used to describe some policy or behavior.
It can also be used as a lazy insult to imply that one advocates a policy out of a sadism or hatred without showing one's work.
Sitting around running extra processor cycles justifying why what you're doing isn't a LARP or maybe it's a LARP but that's good actually is fine, but it's a waste of time when LARP is just being thrown out as a lazy generic insult by your interlocutor.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
My take is that relationships that would be polygamous under a different legal regime just retitle themselves as polyamorous and go without the official legal imprimatur of marriage despite being long-term mutual households, and being essentially patriarchal “one dude, multiple women” setups.
I suppose that is possible, but I haven't really encountered it. Generally where you have the rich man keeping a harem on hand, they make no bones about not liking each other and being unhappy about the arrangement, even if Mahomet said it was ok, accepting it as their lot only for lack of a better option. Polyamory is defined by the multiple women having positive, if not necessarily Sapphic, feelings for one another.
What polyamory has largely replaced is old fashioned adultery.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
...it's always been that way, hasn't it?
We've never had a society without an imprimatur of the divine that would guard the concept of promises, so I don't think it has always been this way. Our purely materialist Capitalist worldview puts no value on honesty beyond a market value, which can always be ignored for the right price.
In my mind the modern failure of the concepts of honor and honesty relates back to Marx's idea that Capitalism subsists on the free gifts of human nature. Our society is falling apart because Capitalism is parasitic upon values that existed before and outside of Capitalism. Once people fully adopt Capitalism as a value system, Capitalism can no longer function. Eg: Capitalism requires people to have children to become workers/consumers/etc.; but on a rational Capitalist profit/loss basis it makes little sense to have children.
In the same way, Capitalism requires that we have a way to break promises, Bankruptcy is an important Capitalist innovation allowing for people to break their promises and move on with their lives and continue as producers and consumers after finding themselves unable to keep their promises. But, it only works where people wanted to keep their promises for other reasons extraneous to Capitalism. Once Bankruptcy becomes sufficiently not-shameful that a former bankrupt can become President of the United States after fleecing his creditors, the laws function differently.
Without any reference to the divine, a promise is only to be kept inasmuch as it is beneficial to keep it, and the moment it isn't beneficial there is no reason to keep it. People used to swear by their hope of heaven and fear of hell, implying that breaking the promise would lead to divine punishment; if someone did that today I'd think they were having a laugh.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
LARP, Cargo Cult, Skin Suit, The Purpose of a System is What it Does, The Cruelty is the Point, Master/Slave Morality are all terms that are just used as boo-lights when they're used as conclusions or insults without extensive structural arguments justifying why they are true. They're clever memes someone heard and want to apply all over the place wherever their opponents gather.
To whit, I've heard LARP applied to online groups, who clearly fail the LA; to actual violent terrorists who clearly fail the RP; and to everyone in between. It's mostly meaningless, just meant to associate your enemy with losers in capes.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
If not, where do traditions even come from in the first place?
Traditions start as innovations, then become traditions.
The problem here is the claim that one is not innovating when one RETVRNS.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
The Amish are grandfathered in and you could not create a similarly isolated group from scratch.
You can join the existing Amish. Pretty easily actually, if you are earnest about it, you can head to a Mennonite-adjacent community, buy a farm, and you'll be accepted within a few years or so in most cases. I suspect this is more common among the Trad community than its detractors think, but that such folk naturally are never heard from again in public.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
I think bringing up the Benedict Option is a bad counter-example, since the trope-maker, Rod Dreher is a pretty damning case study of all this. There's nobody who publically committed themselves harder to this idea, yet he failed to even superficially create even sustainable parts of this project in his own life. The book he wrote, was a cherry picked set of anecdotes, cobbled artificially into a picture he wanted to paint, not an examination of the concept in earnest.
How do you mean regarding Rod?
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
It’s just regular old polygamy on the euphemism treadmill.
I guess we're at crossed wires here on the definition of and the distinction between Polygamy and Polyamory. Polygamy refers to having more than one spouse, while Polyamory refers to having more than one lover. Polygamy refers only to situations in which one is, at minimum, establishing a mutual household if not claiming marriage; while Polyamory refers to any kind of relationship structure in which one party approves of the other party having an additional lover. I'm not sure what your working definition is; as far as I can tell (meant without insult) it's something like "Annoying thing that Annoying cucks on the internet won't stop Annoying me about." Which might be a good definition for most of the times you've run into it online!
Where I've run into IRL couples who label themselves Poly, the most common types in order of appearance are:
-- Theoretically "open" relationships with a 1PP where the woman is supposedly Bisexual and free to sleep with other women but never really has the get up and go to find a woman; and the man is free to sleep with other women in the case of a threesome but isn't hot enough to find one easily while his wife is kind of half-assing it; and it never happens and they're always nosing around "poly" and "kink" and "Queer" events trying to find a third. These are the ones everyone else complains about because they're annoying.
-- The above, but the couple is hot and/or rich and the woman is genuinely bisexual, and therefore find thirds regularly, who they include as an auxiliary member in their relationship for a period of time before shuffling them out. In this case, a 1PP is the stable equilibrium, because a hot woman can find other women about as easily as a hot man can find other women.
-- True "Open" relationships in which both partners are free to pursue other lovers as they choose and are doing so. They tend to just be a glide path to breaking up, or very loosely attached to begin with. Tend to break down due to gender imbalances, because a woman of any given quality can find a man much more easily than a man of a similar quality can find a woman.
-- Polyandry in which one woman and multiple male partners play house. Normally a degenerate form of the above, in which the men are theoretically empowered to look elsewhere but don't.
In all cases, the defining aspect of a polyamorous relationship is the acceptance on the part of one's partner that one is allowed to have additional lovers.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
I, too, don't really care about the distinction. Absent possible divine punishment, the concept of a promise of celibacy or chastity is kind of ridiculous. It fails often enough with the possibility of divine punishment!
This isn't just limited to celibacy: without divine witness, a promise is just a promise. "Words are wind" to stick with the GRRM theme of the thread.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
3d ago
Why not just use the terms that exist, like polyandry or cuckoldry or open marriage?
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
4d ago
Nothing permanent, as the whole concept of a vow is illogical for a non religious organization.
Not at all. I typically just use ON protein powder and work from there. Idk if it still hurts to chew three days from now I don't know what I'll do.
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