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waterfall_maker  26d ago (text post)   1422 thread views

I am looking for story about nondysfunctional family (or group of friends)

I am looking for story where group of characters (family or friends) form together a group that is NOT dysfunctional.

Them dealing with problematic/oppressive/bureaucratic/evil world is fine, in fact I want to have some conflict. On the other hand I do not want them to win effortlessly or get some insanely OP powers that invalidate any opposition. I do not want tragic/bad ending, I also do not want obvious 100% perfect absurd success thanks to blatant plot armor.

I also want story to not feature blatantly stupid setting or characters that make no sense whatsoever. Initially I phrased it as "no unrealistic stuff" but I am in fact fine with dragon-flying slave traders as antagonists, as long as suspension of disbelief is achievable.

I strongly prefer avoidance of current politics in either direction, I have seen remarkably few cases where it was done well. I also do not want books that would be recommended only due to current politics, quality of that is even worse.

Story may be small scale. I actually prefer to avoid "saving the world" story. I think that within last decade I seen two stories that did it and were done well (House of Suns by Alastair Reynolds, Deepness in the sky by Vernor Vinge). And maybe few more that I read earlier (LOTR, Ursula K. Le Guin)

I was thinking about fiction when I was writing this, but if you have anything that is nonfiction and fits - even better!

I hope that it is fine to ask for book recommendations here? If not, then please delete/downvote this and let me know what went wrong.

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Thanks for all recommendations! I plan on trying them, starting from the most promising ones. Though it will take some time to go even part of it (I am not complaining, just want to express that comments are appreciated even if I have replied only to some)

TV: The Incredibles, Speed Racer

The Incredibles

Technically, Bob's relation with his family is somewhat dysfunctional and goes up and down throughout the film until they work together at the end.

Can I convince you to try old children's cartoon series, like the original Digimon Adventure anime?

Digimon was a 1999 children's monster anime from Japan centered around a group of children who meet at a summer camp and find themselves in another world. There they are met by monsters both friendly and not as they try to survive and understand the new world they find themselves in, even as their goal is to find their way back home and return to their families. The story follows the children's efforts to survive, which depends on their personal growth, their relationships with each other, and their partnership with the monster-partners who met them on arrival claiming to have been waiting for them from the start. The later is part of the mystery of the plot that unfolds over 54 episodes, each less than half and hour.

This was isekai before isekai became a power fantasy cliche, more Swiss Family Robinson than Sword Art Online. While the format of the show is a literal monster-of-the-week setup, at nearly every stage of the adventure the children are the underdogs running from a far, far more powerful adversary. Rather than an escapist fantasy from Japanese life, it is fundamentally a story of lost-and-seeking-to-return to home and family.

While the production quality is terribly dated by modern standards- late-90s era animation, pre-modern adaptation practices, etc.- it also had strong character writing. 'Came for the monsters, stayed for the children' is how I fondly remember it. Now, that is on the admittedly biased recollections of a children's show from literal decades ago, but japanese anime has (had?) that trait of sometimes smuggling better writing into anime than American children's media of the time.

(There are various sequel series- some direct sequels, some in other settings. The third series, Digimon Tamers, starts as more of an urban fantasy genre, but arguably is better polished due to a smaller character caste and thus more focus on individual character arcs over time.)

What makes me think this might be appropriate to your ask is that the series (or at least the earlier iterations) is that the series is fundamentally a bildungsroman- a narrative focusing on the protagonists' formative years and spiritual education.

The series is fundamentally a collection of character development stories, in which the monsters and the adventure are the framing device for the children to grow, with that maturation being the narrative payoff as much as the ultimate outcome of the adventure. This isn't a mere 'the power of friendship means we win' spiel either- the series takes an Aristotelian approach to character traits, in which a virtue can become a flaw both by its absence and its excess. And this struggle is the basis of character arcs that track the entire series, even as this process is central to the world-building system.

So I thought of this when I read your criteria.

By line...

I am looking for story where group of characters (family or friends) form together a group that is NOT dysfunctional.

I think this qualifies. The groups that form have internal conflicts, but they are conflicts that are worked through. When there is an enduring conflict, it is character-appropriate and often plot-significant.

As a bildungsroman, the story is characters forming into better people. This does mean they start as worse people, but this is generally in terms of 'good-faith kids who are out of their depth and not yet mature' rather than malicious / incompetent / immoral. There is a generally consistent sense of progression, as the character development of the episode is generally permanent going forward rather than something forgotten in the next episodes.

Them dealing with problematic/oppressive/bureaucratic/evil world is fine, in fact I want to have some conflict. On the other hand I do not want them to win effortlessly or get some insanely OP powers that invalidate any opposition. I do not want tragic/bad ending, I also do not want obvious 100% perfect absurd success thanks to blatant plot armor.

Digimon Adventure starts as a survival story in which the world is dangerous, but with heavy distinctions between evil, morally flawed, and dangerous. Most of the series entails the children on the run or otherwise hiding from the Big Bad.

I also want story to not feature blatantly stupid setting or characters that make no sense whatsoever. Initially I phrased it as "no unrealistic stuff" but I am in fact fine with dragon-flying slave traders as antagonists, as long as suspension of disbelief is achievable.

The series is an isekai. The nature of the isekai isn't exactly a meta-mystery (digimon = digital monsters), but is one to the character cast.

If you can adopt the lie of the isekai premise, it is consistent enough in that context. It reflects a now-archaic 'the internet as a wild new frontier, both dangerous and amazing' mentality rather than any current political concept like disinformation or some such.

I strongly prefer avoidance of current politics in either direction, I have seen remarkably few cases where it was done well. I also do not want books that would be recommended only due to current politics, quality of that is even worse.

The series is a Japanese series that predates the post-2000 culture war. It also predates the Japanese moe-phase or isekai-escapist trends of the late 2000s/2010s.

Story may be small scale.

As an episodic series, there are many smaller-scale stories within the larger plot. While there is a constant the-stakes-are-survival context from the start, many individual stories are fundamentally smaller-stakes, like imposter syndrome, overcoming personal failures and guilt, or familial challenges born of love and complication. There is even a story about trying to help a friend who is being scammed and feeling like you are being dragged down with them.

The series does grow in scale and stakes as the internal mysteries are developed, but they fundamentally start at much, much lower scale in their initial premise. The first series starts with a survive-and-return-home premise, and keeps that for most of the series.

(The urban-fantasy series 3 starts as 'how do I keep my baby dinosaur a secret and out of trouble' child's-secret-pet tale, before the real adventure is about trying to find a lost friend. Again, everything else is framing for small-at-heart struggles.)

...so, have I gotten you to consider watching a 25-year-old children's cartoon with terrible-by-modern-standards production levels for your serious fiction fix?

Speaking of children's cartoons, Dennou Coil is probably another one that might actually fit.

Early 2000s anime had some interesting takes on internet implications. It's something of a time capsule- plenty of acknowledgement of danger / risk / threat (viruses as monsters, etc.), but also mystery / ambiguous potential.

Sword Art really ruined the genre by turning it pure isekai MMO power fantasy.

That's who I'm blaming, anyway.

Can you recommend any? I've been trying to get into classic anime lately (with all my spare time haha) but it's a minefield at best. Mostly trash or weird problems like when someone tells me to watch a series and it sucks and then they're like no not THAT version!

Incidentally the auto-subs on Crunchyroll's version of Berserk (i.e. the bad one) are hilariously awful. Often incomprehensible, always late, names are inconsistent, and at one point a horse demon is licking an uptight bound and topless blonde (just to scare her I guess) and then, per the subs, shouts 'EMAIL ME!' right as Gods or Guts or Gertzu decapitates him with the giant sword.

What kind of anime do you have in mind? "Classic anime" is extremely broad, while Dean's post is specifically about internet-related 2000s anime, which is also late enough that many wouldn't consider it "classic" to begin with.

I really like that 80s/90s vibe. Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Eva, Jin Roh, Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honneamise, Trigun, Bebop, and so on. That era's animation and vision of the future just hits right.

LOGH is GOAT but there's really nothing else like it.

A more modern anime that landed well for me was Blame! though I think it could have been better.

What did you think of Psycho-Pass?

The first season, not the subsequent ones.

An absolute masterpiece. Watch it, if you didn't.

I agree!

I'm unfortunately mostly familiar with (late) 2000s animes and you already mentioned most of the older ones that I know.

Some more niche pre-2000s ones: I enjoyed the first short of Memories (1995) very much, though the other two shorts were mediocre imo. Infinite Ryvius (1999) is basically Lord of Flies IN SPACE. Serial Experiments Lain (1998) has already been mentioned by others. Great Teacher Onizuka (1999) is a lot of fun, but also no SF.

If we extend to early 2000s: Texhnolyze (2004) has a dark & arcane atmosphere very similar to Blame!. Gankutsuou (2004) is the Count of Monte Cristo IN SPACE, this time literally. Haibane Renmei (2003) is by the same author as SEL and in my opinion one of the best animes of all time. But it's not SF.

On Blame!, I can definitely recommend the manga. Imo it's better than the movie.

Yeah, I did enjoy Haibane Renmei and Gankutsuo though the latter's ending was pretty disappointing. GTO was a lot of fun when I watched it 20 years ago. Maybe time to do that again!

LOGH is GOAT but there's really nothing else like it.

Amen.

Not internet-themed in the least. But great.

For commentary on the internet,

  • Paranoia Agent (2004, 13-episode anime), more of a psychological or supernatural horror than cyberpunk, but very focused on the surrealism of modern society. Not a good first anime because so much of it is intentionally unsettling, but fan be fulfilling if you're familiar with what conversations its having. Serial Experiment Lain (1999) falls into a kinda similar boat, though again pre-millenia and imo a lot of its futurist bits have aged far less well.

For general worthwhile classic anime, with some fudging for what range "early 2000s" includes:

  • Cowboy Bebop (1998, 26-episode anime) is one of the ones that probably doesn't need recommendation, but any list missing it is incomplete. Technically pre-millenia, but most of the American following only tracked on in 2000/2001. Space bounty hunters undergo various bizarre antics, ranging from the morbid to the ridiculous and back.
  • Kino's Journey (2003, 13-episode anime). Excellent animation and sound direction, broadly applicable themes, and strong execution, but the strongest part is simply the tone, which I'd call somewhere around 'The Little Prince, but with a gunslinger and talking motorcycle instead of a space-prince and his rose'.
  • Pretty much everything from Ghibli, but Howl's Moving Castle (2004, film) and Spirited Away (2001, film) are probably the strongest 2000s ones, with Princess Mononoke and Kiki's Delivery Service being older great works. About the only one I won't recommend is Grave of the Fireflies, and that's less because of its quality and more because of its motif.
  • Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (2007, 27-episode anime), the central super robot anime. There's a few meh bits -- episode 4, for example, or the gratituous booba character -- but generally combines strong animation, style, music, and theme. A show that strongly rewards going into it relatively unspoilered, though.
  • Dai-guard (1999), Gundam 08th MS Team (1996), or The Big O (1999) are all moderately-good 'realistic robot' anime. Not very realistic, but all good as a turnaround from TTGL.
  • Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood (2009). The first anime (2003) wasn't bad, and familiarity with certain scenes are kinda a cost of entry in anime fan circles, but the remake was resoundingly stronger in characterization, in addition to a better budget and direction. There's other okay shonen from this era -- Soul Eater is the only one I can really call worth its time, and that's still in a popcorn sense -- but FMA:B is outright strong in nearly every respect.
  • Mononoke (2007, 12-episode anime). The Medicine Seller must track down the cause and drive of various supernatural ailments, though this often focuses more on the moral failings and limits of the humans he's working to protect.

Grave of the Fireflies may be my favorite anime film, and ranks very highly among all general films for me. What don't you like about the motif?

It's a technically fantastic film, and I was impressed the one time I watched it. But I don't want to watch it again.

It's a great film, and I can understand why it might rank among people's favorites. It's just (intentionally!) not an enjoyable film. If it's something someone should watch, it's better that they find it on their own.

Spirited Away

I watched it, and I recommend it. I am not anime watcher or even movie watcher and I liked it.

Thanks, yeah. Think I did try Kino's Journey and may again.

Mononoke (2007, 12-episode anime). The Medicine Seller must track down the cause and drive of various supernatural ailments, though this often focuses more on the moral failings and limits of the humans he's working to protect.

Based on the description I thought you meant Mushishi but apparently this is a thing too. May give it a shot.

I can second Mononoke, if you like this style of story.

Summer Wars, a 2009 movie, is an interesting short-ish experience. It was sort of a... not spiritual sequel, but a 'this is the story we wanted to tell' of one of the digimon movies. Basically an internet-of-things-meets-rogue-AI experience. A nice family story that also balances tradition and progress in a family story context. Only a few hours long.

I sincerely do think the third digimon series in particular, Digimon Tamers, is a well put together series and not-exactly-accidental AI allegory. On top of a bildungsroman for the children, it basically is an 'alignment and conflict between humans and AI' narrative. Once you accept that the digital monsters are AI, you can recognize AI metaphors that would be more coherent decades later, upto and including the limits of government capacity to keep control. This includes an AI developer not recognizing the implications of his invention and having to grow with it as much as guide it (kid makes magical monster who is fundamentally childlike), various AI-growth-risk metaphors, and even rogue AI.

Ghost in the Shell is an older and more adult-focused classic. It's far more in the cyberpunk field of things, but it's a gem for reasons, though reasons include some pretty abstract stuff.

Worth adding that it's mostly Ghost in the Shell the movie and Stand Alone Complex that are worth watching. The later spinoffs/prequel etc I thought were...kind of mid.

Star Trek the Next Generation. TV shows, not the movies. Competent professionals working together to solve problems.

Ringworld maybe? The team has some strife but they're mostly functional.

"Firefly?" There's a minimum level/number of conflicts between an ensemble required for the ensemble to be interesting, but the main characters of "Firefly" are a non-dysfunctional band of criminals, some members of which bicker and insult each other.

Brandon Sanderson’s worlds are often dark, but the main characters themselves are good, reasonably intelligent, wholesome people is healthy relationships. He mostly avoids real-world political topics. If you haven’t tried him yet, give him a look.

Jim Butcher’s Codex Alera might be better than his Dresden Files books, but I found both series to be extremely enjoyable with, especially in the later books, very little disfunction among the main characters.

Now for something even better, and if you are not opposed to Japanese Lightnovels, read Ascendance of a Bookworm. It is an amazingly heartwarming tale where the main character’s bond with her family plays a starring role. I don’t want to say too much for fear of spoilers, but this series just keeps getting better and better with each successive part.

All these recommendations are Fantasy, because that is what I mainly read, but they all take place in worlds which are internally consistent and where all the characters make decisions that make sense to them in their context. There is no plot armor, no easy victories (but there are victories), and they have mostly happy endings.

I really liked Dresden Files though I have not read latest ones. I guess it would make sense to finish it it got completed and look into Codex Alera.

I tried reading Brandon Sanderson (Mistborn) but I got deeply annoyed - supposedly smart plans were fairly dumb, and what worse they actually worked. Overall I had impression of standard extruded fiction product. Really nice if you like it, given insane amount of stuff Brandon wrote. Sadly, I disliked it :(

Unfamiliar with Japanese Lightnovels (so not opposed to them) so I will try Ascendance of a Bookworm - maybe as lower priority as I have no idea how to obtain it, hopefully googling will be sufficient.

Anathem comes to mind as another science fiction novel that fits the bill.

Sadly, I have read it already. Not entirely sure is it actually fitting this specific request but I reccomend it anyway!

Lmfao I completely missed the word "novel" in your post

Maybe I meant "new"! :D

Can't find it on imdb.

Hands of the Emperor by Victoria Goddard is about the unofficial prime minister of the world going on vacation with his boss and coworkers while trying to explain his job to his relatives.

The Human Division by John Scalzi is about, essentially, a second rate team of diplomats (well, they're billed as second rate; in the actual story they appear to be pretty good at their job).

Artifact Space/Deep Black by Miles Cameron is about the crew of a Space Indiaman, and while the main character has some personal issues, the crew overall is a pretty well-oiled machine.

Hands of the Emperor by Victoria Goddard

interesting, it is also what LLM recommended me when I feed this question into them (they actually recommended more but this one was one of few that seemed worth reading).

I guess I will count it as a double recommendation :)

I enjoyed it, but I will warn a) it is incredibly slow b) basically nothing happens.

Isn’t LOTR kind of saving the world? The whole theory is that if Sauron gets the ring, it’s over for the free people of Middle Earth.

That's what he said; he was listing it as an exception.

Fair. I read “it” as meaning stories that avoided saving the world whereas OP likely meant stories it to mean stories that focused on saving the world.

Funny enough if you look at the totality of middle earth stories even if Sauron won it wouldn’t be lights out. Morgoth won at one point and the valar intervened.

it wouldn’t be lights out

well, almighty good God is an ultimate backstop (situation was screwed up enough that it actually got involved anyway, twice, though full-on reboot was not needed)

Funny enough if you look at the totality of middle earth stories even if Sauron won it wouldn’t be lights out. Morgoth won at one point and the valar intervened.

I mean, yes, but it was a Pyrrhic victory; Beleriand, where all the elven kingdoms had been, sank into the ocean permanently with the exception of Lindon. Sauron might not have won, but the Free Peoples would have lost.

Also, there's that line from the Downfall of Numenôr: "Men could not a second time be saved by any such embassy".

And the Valar always made claims about not doing something until they did.

That was narrator voice, not the Valar.

Stranded in Fantasy is one of my comfort reads. It's a quasi-gametale written on /tg/ about a group of ordinary humans who get portaled into a fantasy world. It's not a power fantasy like most isekai-type stories; the characters have nothing to start out with and must struggle to survive. It's extremely comfy and the characters, while flat, are fun and care about eachother.

Deepness in the sky by Vernor Vinge

Now there's a book I'm glad to hear about. I remember it made a big impact on me when I read it about a decade ago. Maybe it wouldn't hold up if I read it again, but I recall being very disturbed by the villains (good, villains should be villainous). I never did get read A Fire Upon the Deep, though, not first and not after.

The Boys in the Boat is about a rowing team that won the 1936 Olympic gold. Hard to have dysfunction when you need to synchronize so deeply. Non-fiction, instead of SFF.

The Long Way to a Small Angry Planet has been described, derisively, as a book where nothing really happens, but it's a character piece and there's no real dysfunction in the crew. I haven't read it, but it came to mind for that reason.

I recall being very disturbed by the villains (good, villains should be villainous)

and ending was really really satisfying

Agree, I actually liked A Deepness in the Sky even better than A Fire Upon the Deep, which was damn good in its own right. In fact, although I've only read several of his books, I've thoroughly enjoyed every single one of them. A shame I can't say the same for some other hard sci-fi authors that I favor... cough nealststephenson cough

Agree, I actually liked A Deepness in the Sky even better than A Fire Upon the Deep, which was damn good in its own right.

+1 to both

In fact, although I've only read several of his books, I've thoroughly enjoyed every single one of them.

Sadly, for example sequels to "A Fire Upon the Deep" were extremely terrible and disappointing

My Neighbor Totoro?

The Expanse novel series fits this description very well.

I watched series! And I actually really liked it, and yes - it matches this request!

I may try reading books again - for some reason so far I tried reading only "Cibola Burn" and at least in this one show seemed a strict improvement.

Second this. Expanse does a great job of crew as family in a fascinating evolving world.

Richard Feynman's memoir "Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman" describes his relationships with his parents, his wife, his colleagues and friends, etc. and I would describe all of those relationships as basically functional and healthy.

OK, this one is unexpected here and was on my list already. Sounds like a good reason to likely start from it.

I need to circle back to that and finish it. Well, I need to find it first. I left it on the end table too long and it got "cleaned up". So many wonderful anecdotes, and Feynman was a national treasure.

It seems like you're basically describing "slice of life" anime. (which can also be manga or light novel). It's a huge genre.

Elder Cultivator on Royal road. The setting might put you off.

The setting might put you off.

yeaaaah

I tried to read some cultivation stories, supposedly gems of the genre and they were both fairly bad in my opinion (for multiple reasons, including really mismatching own preferences in multiple ways at once)

The story is a bit of an odd duckling. It feels closer to cozy western fantasy than most cultivation. The main character is an old man, and generally concerned with his extended family/ descendants. The sect he joins is good. It's different from many cultivation stories that have selfish jerk MCs playing in a world of only terrible people. Generally if you are looking to avoid dysfunctional families I'd agree that avoiding all cultivation novels is smart. But just consider this something that might fit your preferences that otherwise would get totally filtered out from your searches.

What medium are you looking for? TV series? Books?

I was thinking about books. But actually other media are also fine.

Frieren

Mercedes Lackey, Eric Flint, and Margaret Wies are all good but might not make the break.

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