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I have to ask this straight at this point, would you breed with your own daughter if inbreeding and social backlash was not in the cards?
This is not a question. This is an insult masquerading as a question.
You've been warned about this before. Stop doing it or you will be banned.
How would you clarify whether there's anything behind a person's repeated, ambiguously ironic evocation of the "daughter is the ultimate cuck" meme without it sounding like an insult? Cuckoldry is a term referring to your wife being fucked by another man. Therefore, if you're being cucked when someone fucks your daughter, she must be your wife.
We have (had) self-proclaimed pedofascists here, so I can't really assume asking whether my interlocutor is one must be taken as an insult.
I do not believe for one second that you asked him if he'd "breed with his daughter" as anything other than an insult. You find his views offensive and you reached for what you hoped would be an effective way to express your disgust. I am not deceived about your intentions and I am telling you to stop. Express your offense in another manner.
I find views of many users here offensive, but in this particular case what I was hoping was to have Sloot give a non-irony-poisoned straight declaration of his views for once. Whether to be disgusted or not would come later. You're welcome to not believe me, but let's not pretend that you telling me what you think I intended has any weight.
What I tell you has weight inasmuch as I'm telling you what you should avoid doing if you wish not to be banned. Whether you care about this is up to you.
Accusing me of lying about my intentions doesn't come into telling me what to avoid doing, though.
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That's a pretty typical attempt at well-poisoning when any man prefers, or is suspected to prefer, a real or hypothetical daughter to be chaste. "Hur dur, you just want to fuck your own daughter." Note women don't receive such attempts at well-poisoning when they prefer a real or hypothetical son to be tall/athletic/etc.
The purity ring dances were the most incestuous father-daughter events possible outside of literal orgies. This well was poisoned by purity ring enthusiasts circa 15 years ago.
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I disagree. While it is sometimes used to well-poison in this way (and while I do think that our society severely undervalues chastity and parents do have a moral responsibility to protect the chastity of their children and particularly their daughters), I think that "your behavior strongly suggests a subconscious-at-best desire to fuck your own daughter" is an insult that is deserved far more often than it is issued.
Perhaps it is precisely because of the complex collapse of traditional sexual morality in our society that so many fathers are unable to articulate a desire to protect their daughters' virtue that does not ironically sound disgustingly incestuous. (I would certainly expect that this is a large part of the problem; the pathology I'm pointing at rings so false to me because it seems detached from any hope of eventually finding one's daughter a suitable husband. It's like a male-pattern counterpart to empty nest syndrome, at least as afraid of one's daughter growing up and getting married and moving out as it is of her falling victim to some cad. Watch out for rhetoric suggesting that the reason the daughter's chastity should be preserved is to extend her easy low-maintenance childhood; this implies both that the father specifically objects to the thought of his daughter getting married young and that he'll be fine with her becoming a slut once she gets too old to maintain the facade of childhood anymore.) In any case, though, I don't think that this behavior helps to preserve traditional sexual morality on either a personal or societal level.
("Rules for dating my daughter" t-shirts, pointedly-gun-cleaning-in-front-of-the-boyfriend rituals, etc, aposematically convey to me: "I am unable to distinguish between the concepts of protecting my daughter from men with ill intent and kidnapping her to go live together in a cabin in the woods, and I am very close to doing the latter; I have often considered the logistics of setting up a Josef Fritzl basement.")
Trads probably don't get to blame 100% of this problem on modernity, though. A lot of it does seem rooted in (echoes of the long-gone) patriarchal model, in which women are property first of their father and then of their husband, and, IE, rape is understood as a form of property crime. While such a model does have a lot to recommend it, it also clearly has a lot to disrecommend it, and though I have a very low opinion of feminism, I think one of the more compelling (and fringe) complaints they've made is that traditional societies seem to have had a lot of unreported incestuous rape going on. The parallel construction of father-daughter and husband-wife is clearly very easy to fuck up and confuse both in ancient and modern contexts, and I would generally urge people to maintain a clearer delineation between these roles.
Libertines would like us to think that the offputting thing about purity balls, purity rings, and the like is the purity, the thing that libertines want to destroy. The actual offputting thing is the balls, the rings, signifiers of marriage where no marriage can actually exist, with the father in the husband role. These young women should be getting married off ASAP, not LARPing as pseudowives for their fathers. I would also suggest that, when fathers participate in their daughters' weddings, they should take care not to equate themselves too directly with their new son-in-laws, and to generally be watchful of innuendo and scandal. General talk of "giving away my daughter" is iffy; talk of "giving this man my daughter to love as I once loved her, though we'll always know that I was first" is right out.
Of course, there are also men who deserve this insult for reasons that have nothing to do with some malformed defense of chastity. (Sometimes, indeed, because they are insufficiently protective of their daughters' chastity; because they proudly parade their daughters around in a sexualized fashion, unbothered.) Certainly, for everything positive one can say about Donald Trump, and there is a lot, this is an attack he has invited upon himself.
Obviously, I find things like purity balls, purity rings, “rules for dating my daughter” t-shirts, “pointedly-gun-cleaning-in-front-of-the-boyfriend rituals” to be colossally cringe. However, from those would be a massive leap to Fritzi-maxxing.
And I too find Trump’s comments and actions toward his daughter to be weird and cringe. I’m slightly, somewhat surprised that anti-Trumpers have not attempted to make more hay out of this over the past few years, but they also likely feel a bit handcuffed since Hunter and Beau Biden are eskimo brothers, and thus don’t want to work the incest angle too hard.
I have attended many weddings in my adult life, but thankfully I’ve been spared from witnessing such cringe. If/when a daughter gets married, at her wedding I’ll likely be thinking “thank goodness this is finally someone else’s problem.”
That being said, this general phenomenon (not wanting your teenaged or young adult daughter to get fucked outside of marriage) is hardly limited culturally, temporally, geographically. For example, in some parts of Latin America, teenaged boys or young men will sometimes call the fathers of their attractive female acquaintances “suegro” in person; this is perceived as impolite and disrespectful, and said fathers will often seethe.
“Suegro” just means “father-in-law,” although sometimes it can be used to refer to father of unmarried boyfriend or girlfriend. Thus, it’s not inherently gross or sexual in and of itself.
However, why does such a father seethe and react as if the teenaged boy or young man referred to his wife as “novia” (girlfriend) or “esposa” (wife)? Shouldn’t it be a compliment that a teenaged boy or young man finds your daughter desirable?
Does the father just secretly want to fuck his daughter? Or is he reacting as most men across time and cultures would do, in having an instinctive disgust response to his daughter potentially getting fucked outside of a committed, lifetime relationship (which these teenaged boys and young men presumably do not intend on providing)?
Sloot I'm not going to lie the thought of you having a daughter seems like the premise for a sitcom.
Such a thought has been expressed to me both online and in real life. It does sound kind of funny, that me getting burdened with a daughter would be some form of comedic, karmic justice.
However, I’ve had both various younger and older female family members visit and crash at my place for an extended period of time, without me needing to thot-patrol. Many of the younger ones I’ve spent quite a few hours/days babysitting when we were younger; vice versa for the older ones. I’ve also had both various younger and older male family members visit and crash at my place. And clearly, as a child, teenager, and young adult, I’ve visited and crashed at my older family members places various times.
Thus, such a sitcom would probably be more boring than expected.
Alas, my image of you as a modern-day Don Quijote is tarnished.
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All those plus purity balls and the like are nothing but desperate, dim-witted but humanly understandable reactions to the harsh reality of the 'complex collapse of traditional sexual morality'. They also seem to be based on the rather flimsy assumption that a great bunch of sexually attractive, thuggish chads are tripping over one another to win the daughter's hand. The sad social reality is that she'll probably get proposed by one, maybe two ordinary dudes, provided that dad isn't around with his silly antics.
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I am not seeing how "hurt my daughter and I kill you" equates to "I am unable to distinguish between 'hurt my daughter and I kill you' and being a rapist kidnapper".
It seems like a fairly natural continued escalation of the combined thoughts "I care very deeply about protecting my daughter", "I have an extremely expansive definition of protecting my daughter which includes preventing her from ever having a relationship with a man, regardless of what she wants", and "you should be scared of me because I am criminally insane, particularly in these daughter-related matters".
I'd interpret "pointedly-gun-cleaning-in-front-of-the-boyfriend rituals" - your words - as "hurt her and I kill you", not "be her boyfriend and I kill you". After all, if he's her boyfriend and it was "be her boyfriend and I kill you", the father would already be shooting, not cleaning the gun.
Vigilante action in response to family member raped/beaten/murdered is the natural response of human men; it's the way humanity's kept the peace for the vast majority of its history. The idea that it constitutes insanity? I'm not saying there aren't arguments you can make, but it's not obvious; you ought to make them.
It‘s pathetic bluster on the father‘s part. If we still lived in a society where such threats were made in earnest, the suitor would have to answer with murder or a duel. Ignoring the threat would mark you as his inferior, a guy he has right of life and death over, his kidnapping victim, his servant. To add insult to injury, your morals are questioned. The only peaceful response would be to lowkey threaten to cut the father‘s head off if his daughter ever reports that he raised his voice to her, sir.
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I'd assume the ritual is considered, at best, overreacting these days. Assumed thought process of the boyfriend in question:
I already know that a father would respond with violence if I hurt his daughter like this.
Also, I'm not a barbarian and I don't need to be explicitly threatened to respect a woman.
The above two are obvious.
The dad is making a threat before such a threat is warranted.
The dad might have a very different definition of "hurting his little girl" than normal people.
The dad doesn't want anyone (else?) to fuck his daughter ever.
Consider a different situation of lower stakes: if someone punches you, you're usually within your rights to fight back, and unless it's a very uneven fight you'd likely do so instinctively. But you don't go around telling people "don't fuck with me or you'll find out" before it looks like a fight, do you?
Neither of these is obvious in the usual situation here (i.e. the boyfriend is meeting the father for the first time). There are fathers that wouldn't, these days, and there have always been boyfriends that are/do.
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I’ve seen multiple lower-class, self-proclaimed trailer-trash people do exactly that. But that’s also precisely the same sort of person that would make a big scene about greeting his daughter’s date with a shotgun draped across his knee.
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This naturally follows from the notion that women are property, though; it is your God-given unimpeachable right to prolong that adolescence as long as possible, and as such you may do as you wish. (The same applies to the incest thing, for what should be obvious reasons- of course, feminists have abused the privilege to rewrite 'marital rape' to mean 'wife who is only doing it to keep up the marriage', but from 1910 through now we thought the answer to 'unrestrained male selfishness' was 'unrestrained female selfishness' [and traditionalists by their nature had no good counterargument] so that's just what we get, I guess.)
"They're not even human beings until 25" (and the earlier age of consent laws, which traditionalists absolutely fawn over) were wonderful gifts to the traditionalists of that bent, especially because "preserve my child as being a child" is a natural small-c conservative impulse. In fact, that's a very womanly impulse, which should be highly insulting to those would-be property owners (who will state "our sex is endowed with a healthier sense of risk management" as a reason why women should be property) but I digress.
Remember, the most sexually libertine period in US history was also the closest to the traditionalist ideal; marriages still happened fast and young (despite only 1/5th of high schoolers retaining their virginities- guess that whole 'but muh virgin marriage' thing wasn't that important after all, and maybe simply having (on average) a more beautiful wife at marriage does a lot to sand that edge down). The fact that traditionalists failed to capitalize on the economic circumstances that led society to turn away from the sexual revolution (since this could have been a viable path as opposed to what the progressives laid down in the '80s) is, uh, all on the traditionalists.
It's more about the stagnation and waste that an obsession with purity creates (just like the stagnation and waste that an obsession with ownership creates). Which your neo-traditionalism will naturally have to overcome- that is why you want marriages where none are set up to exist, because that is a way to overcome that (that doesn't enable the wicked wasting away of your daughters like the aformentioned progressive-endorsed LARPing does)- in other words, it is progress. Property rights come with property responsibilities.
Replacing it with nothing was, is, and will continue to be unworkable.
Then I question how you can be a traditionalist. Woman transfer from father to husband contingent on present and projected future funds and quality of said husband is the cornerstone of traditional thought.
Fundamentally, "men own women" is how the initial conditions work out when assuming a biologically-burned-in fear of 100% chance of pregnancy every time a woman has sex, and when all labor providing primary economic goods being only meaningfully accomplished when conducted by men (women may provide secondary economic goods, but are useless if there are no primary goods- cooking is useless when there is no food to cook) women must sell the only valuable thing they possess- their bodies- for the right to those primary goods.
Over the last 200,000 years of human evolution those axioms have never, ever been false. So, uh, why mess with tradition- especially because, if men throw that away because 'it feels bad', there's no guarantee that women won't use the tools for manipulating men that same 200,000 year evolutionary process gave them to just be turbo-selfish and fuck up everything (with revenge as the excuse).
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I'm tempted to nominate this for an AAQC.
See, @sun_the_second, this is how you imply you're wondering if someone wants to fuck their daughter without being directly insulting.
I do hope you're not implying that one must write a comprehensive AAQC-worthy dissertation on a topic to qualify as sufficiently non-directly-insulting. It's a high bar to clear and I think you'll remain disappointed again and again when someone fails to meet it.
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It's a typical response to literally referring to a man's protectiveness of his daughter's chastity (a woman he is expected to not be fucking) with the same terminology as a man's protectiveness of his wife's faithfullness (a woman he is expected to be fucking). It's quite rich to glug the poison straight from the skull and bones vial in front of everyone and then claim you were poisoned.
I'm not attacking possessiveness or general "thot-patrolling" here, my question is about the specific choice of language. Do you want to make your daughter your wife, and if not, why do you imply someone fucking your daughter would make you the same thing as someone fucking your wife? You hide behind "but other people at other venues ask such questions for other reasons, and anyway those other people don't sufficiently interrogate women like that".
Note that women will absolutely receive accusations of wanting their son for themselves if they chase away all his girlfriends and marriage prospects, if I can help it.
Because, as should be obvious, I'm not equating the two; I just find it an amusing metaphor and hyperbole.
If the first one occurs, one would say he got cucked. It's not hard to see why "cucked" could then be extended as a metaphor for the second. Cuckold itself is a metaphor derived from the cuckoo bird.
Do you get similarly indignant and performatively bewildered when someone uses a term like "Republicuck" or "wagecuck", or says that he or she got "cucked" by a blue-shell in Mario Kart right before the finish line? A week and a half back I microhumorously referred to myself as "wagecucking" or "salarycucking" in describing myself working a fulltime job; if you saw it at the time, would you have thrown a challenge flag to grandstand and "interrogate" me as to why I'd compare my employment status to my wife getting plowed by another man? If you did see it at the time, why didn't you?
Or maybe I just didn't feel like indulging your snide attempt at well-poisoning beyond the response I gave. Bad practice to reward bad behavior.
The usage of in "Republicuck" and "wagecuck" is drawing a parallel that I would call interesting, but not exactly in the same class as a joke. Jokes are a subclass of lies (otherwise "I was just joking" would not be a defense!), but I assume that those who use those terms intend to make salient a common element (of enthusiastically giving away something that you are honour/dignity-bound to keep for yourself) between sexual cuckoldry and loyalty to indifferent companies and parties that they really believe exists. The blue shell thing could work as a joke, but I don't see how it's funny (since jokes need to be lies plus something like surprise/subverted expectations?). Of the things you mentioned so far, your yes-chad assertion that you would consider supporting your pregnant cat cuckoldry is the only one that I see really working as a joke.
Either way, jokes only really work if expectations are in fact being subverted by them. That's why "oh yeah, I killed him and hid the body" can be funny if a bunch of friends are to have a party and one is inexplicably not showing up, but probably not when the next day police turn up to search your apartment in "we are not treating you as a suspect at the moment" mode. Similarly, you could've foreseen that in this situation you would be treated as at least slightly suspect of unhealthy feelings towards your daughter, which should completely preclude the usability of this theme as a joke. In fact, the idea that a perpetrator gives himself away by making context-inappropriate jokes about having done it is close to being a stock trope in criminal fiction and true-crime media.
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I'm aware of the concept of edgy jokes. I'm also aware of the concept of masking real feelings with jokes, usually detected by the joke being particularly repetitive and adjacent to plainly stated opinions.
There are only trace amounts of Freudian potential in "wagecucking". It's really hard to imagine someone beating a wagecucking meme to death because he really feels sexually dominated by capitalism. I have tried just now.
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You are the one who brought in "cuckoldry", which is normally understood to denote your sexual partner being taken by somebody else (and possibly you enjoying the (f)act). What did you mean, then? The fantastic cuck chair hypothetical you wrote after makes no sense either if you are really only using the phrase as hyperbole for "I would prefer her to not have sex, but I subsidise her having sex" and nothing more. Would you really be using the same vocabulary if we were instead talking about your cat getting it on with the neighbourhood strays when you did not want to deal with kittens?
Also, I don't see how wanting your son to be tall/athletic is anything like not wanting your daughter to have sex. One will get someone who shares your genes laid more; the other will not.
Most of this I recently covered here.
That does in fact sound like the kind of microhumor that would be well-within my personal Overton window. If I owned a cat that got knocked-up by some neighborhood strays and I recounted the story and wrote here that I got cucked—maybe there'd be some peal-clutching from those who don't like such types of (micro)humor—but I doubt there'd be salty comments demanding to know why I used "cucked" in such a manner and asking me if I want to fuck my cat.
Along the lines of what @erwgv3g34 said—most men, if they could help it, do not one want their daughters getting "laid more" outside of marriage. Even for sons, there are limitations to this. Some men, albeit a minority, want their sons to wait until marriage akin as they would want for their daughters. Just instinctively, without any mental calculus, I wouldn't want a real or hypothetical son to be banging hookers, single mothers, or ugly chicks, even if there's no physical consequences and that means he's getting "laid more."
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The concept of "getting laid" does not make sense when applied to women. Any women who wants to have sex can do so by the simple expedient of spreading her legs. Men have to actually work for it.
Given this, the bottleneck for women's reproductive success is not having sex, which again any woman can do, but having sex with a man who has both the ability and the willingness to stick around and provide for her and her children and protect both from harm.
A woman who has sex with men without taking those facts into account is rightly derided as a slut or a whore, and she and her children would die out in the streets if the state did not steal money at gunpoint from productive, hardworking men to support her bastards.
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