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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   2211 thread views

Wellness Wednesday for July 24, 2024

The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:

  • Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.

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  • Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.

  • Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).

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I feel like my drinking has gotten steadily worse this year. I'm drinking nearly every night. A light nights its just a light beer or two. On heavy nights its probably 2-5 light beers, and 2-4 drinks of liquor. (usually never the max of both).

I would like to do this far less. So I'll report back here every month or so on decreased drinking to try and hold myself accountable.

I did this for a solid 9 months … then I fell in love

So I don’t really have an answer for you but wish you luck !

Have you checked your blood pressure lately? Alcohol can cause a short term drop. It could be the reason that a light buzz suddenly started feeling nicer.

This could be why I hate drinking on an empty stomach.

Is it not folk wisdom in the West that you gotta eat when you drink?

It’s folk wisdom that you’ll get drunk faster if you don’t.

What am I, made of money here?

My blood pressure is usually a little high.

Good luck! Is the drinking social or just because you enjoy a beer?

I think I mostly love the light buzz I get from being tipsy. The laughter comes easier, I am more socially open, and I tend to just enjoy things more.

I also generally enjoy imbibing cold liquids of all kinds. Including just plain ice water. But adding flavor or carbonation usually makes it better. Regular beer fulfills that but so does N/A beers.

I dislike being very drunk, and I dislike the health side effects of lots of drinking. But otherwise almost everything about beer is awesome to me.

I used to be (and still am to a large extent) a frequent drinker. But at this stage in my life, I really don't want to drink on weekdays and only sparingly on weekends. I still get shitfaced every two to three weeks, but the hangovers are so unpleasant that I have been a lot more selective on when and how much I will drink.

What has helped me reduce my alcohol intake is kratom. I take 2 to 4 grams of kratom every night; it gets me slightly high and euphoric enough where alcohol seems pointless. The upside is I do not drink or smoke weed during the workweek. The downside is that I am probably low-key addicted to kratom. I don't necessarily see this as a problem, as I have been taking the same dose for two years without feeling the need to increase or take it more frequently.

Both of my parents have problems with alcohol, my father especially. He is in his mid 60s and has about 8-10 drinks per night, every night. Somehow he still manages to wake up in the morning, walk three miles, and keep his house in order (he is retired). It is an astonishing level of functioning alcoholism. I have my own inclinations to drink, but the hangovers largely keep me away. However, I do need something to elevate my mood and kratom has been a great substitute.

I was like this for a while--a beer, while making dinner, or two, or three. Hey I have gin, or vodka, let's do martini. Then it was 3 beers five nights a week, and more on Saturdays.

I've been on the wagon now almost a month, mainly because I got COVID, which started me off, but then my buddy back home decided to do a 30-day-dry and started sending me daily counts: 1, 2, 3, etc. So now we are doing it together and I'll be damned if he will go longer than I will. So yeah it gets down to just competitiveness, but if it works...

Mornings I feel better. I have cheated once or twice in this heat and had a few non-alcohol (0.00%) beers to fool myself, but they weirdly mess with my head. My wife says "Just have a beer," so no real support there. If you want a cheering section, DM me, but probably someone you know and trust is better. Never hurts to be accountable to others, or at least one other.

Finally I don't announce that I am doing this (except here, now, to hundreds of strangers). Just my friend, and now my wife who kept asking. Keep it on the down low is my advice. I don't have a theory on this, it just seems right. Good luck, if you decide to do it. I am not sure when I'll drink again. Maybe after the 30 days. I still like a nice drink, and especially as I say, in this blasted heat.

I’ve found keeping a pitcher of iced tea on hand helps reduce consumption- something about the acquiredness of the taste at night seems to substitute for vodka in a way soda doesn’t.

cf "work beers" as a jocular term for lacroix and such

I used to get draft kombucha when pregnant and in an area that served it.

Good idea, I do just generally like liquids and drinking interesting flavors. Sugary soda was my vice before alcohol.

When I give up alcohol but still want a cold fizzy drink, tonic water with freshly sliced half- lemon peel and all in a beer glass heavy with ice goes perfect. I'll keep the tonic out and just refill the glass directly. Alternately I'll keep club soda on hand just to drink with ice.

It’s very easy to start drinking every night. Like @yofuckreddit, I switched to thc (a few years ago) and haven’t looked back. I still drink one or two nights a week, but I don’t miss the grogginess in the morning on weekdays or waking up dehydrated at night. It’s fun to get drunk - every so often. The effects of a substantial amount of alcohol every day impair a normal working life to too great an extent to be comfortable, at least for most people.

It's good that you're cottoning on early, alcoholism tends to sneak up on you and before you know it, you're having a hard time falling asleep without a nightcap or two.

I'd estimate you're well past the 14 units that's considered "safe" (-ish) a week, so the sooner you cut down the better, before you're really dependent.

Having one beer with dinner is not 'drinking'.

Worrying about the 'heavy nights' -I get that, if I did that more than once a week socially, it'd start seeming excessive. Since drinking that much on friday is a habit that for me pretty much died after I left high school, nothing to worry about.

I'll probably switch to non alcoholic beers to have with my dinner. Sometimes I just want a bit of the flavor.

But I tend to mostly drink late night, after 9pm and my kids are down. And I mostly drink alone which seems silly and pointless to me.

Yeah, drinking alone seems pretty odd, I mean, more than a tiny bit.

The N/A stuff is dramatically better than it was even just a few years ago, which should really help.

Another in between option worth a mention is just cutting down to things like All Day IPA that are still pretty enjoyable at 4% ABV. This obviously isn't actual sobriety, but it's a meaningful reduction in alcohol and calories if the norm is heavier beers.

Oh, I forget Americans drink weird,very alcoholic stuff. Here even 'strong' beer is lager, which is iirc never over 5% ABV. Most of the stuff drunk in Czech Republic is like 4.2-4.6% or so iirc.

Still, beer hits very hard because of the hops, which are a sedative. Honestly outside of a party/exercise type situation I'd be sleeping after more than 2-3 beers anyway.

I once was told by a doctor to use lager as a sleep aid. (it does work, moreso than other alcohol).

Generally the beers im drinking are super light, I go for low carbs, which often ends up being low alcohol as well. Miller Lite my go to, and it is 4.2% alcohol.

And yeah the N/A stuff like Athletic actually tastes better than my normal beers ... its just that it is heavier on the carbs. And keeping my diabetes under control matters more to me than the alcohol.

I was in this same situation early this year. For what it's worth, it's been awesome improving it. The nights I do drink feel more fun, even though I drink less. Some tips:

  • I started using THC as a crutch since I typically only consume one substance per night. I then phased that downward later.
  • If you make it through dinner without drinking before and during, then you're pretty much home free. Depending on when you eat now you can push that time back to late enough (730?) to where once you're done it'll be so irrational to crack open a beer you won't do it.
  • Activities that are seriously harmed by drinking can be weekday buffers. Reading while drunk is possible but not great, likewise working out. If you do post-dinner runs/stationary bike sessions they can prevent you from getting a session started.
  • I needed cooperation and accountability from my wife. In the morning it was easy to say "We aren't drinking tonight" and then if I slipped up and suggested a glass of wine (which would lead to 3-4) she'd stomp it down.

Best of luck!

Watch out with that. THC can be habit forming, especially if you have an addictive personality. In my experience it’s very easy to go from a drag or two at night to basically being high all the time.

I've been a very lightweight user for 15 years - while I think it's an incredible drug, I've never gotten close to forming a habit.

I'd agree 100%, though, that it absolutely can be harmful. Many friends wallowed post-college for far too long after getting addicted. I think it's more dangerous for teenagers and early 20-somethings as opposed to someone cjet's age.

I don't do THC. Mostly a lack of interest in the effects.

I actually manage to make it through dinner most of the time. It's late night an hour or two before bed when I really need to avoid it.

My wife is pregnant, hopefully this one will survive, but that should be some good built in accountability. I was anticipating that id already start to get the accountability even if I didn't want it.

Thanks for the well wishes!

hopefully this one will survive

Shit man, sorry to hear about past experiences, and fwiw I (and I expect all here) also hope this.

You've become a (mild) alcoholic. You should take that seriously. If you keep the same or worsening pattern it may, if you have the genotype for addiction, soon be out of your control. Pay attention to the automaticity of your drinking behavior. Do you deliberately choose to take the drink each time, or has it become habit? If it happens sometimes just automatically or by habit, that should make you want to regain control over what you're actually doing. How often do you think about/look forward to the next drinking opportunity? Has your repertoire of 'excuses' for taking a drink increased? Do you imagine the alcohol will increase your enjoyment of a given situation, and ignore via confirmation bias the times when it doesn't help?

It's been slipping more from choice to habit, and that's exactly what I don't like and want to break.

I only mildly look forward to it. I've certainly noticed that if I do it too often it loses the fun. It's a mood boost and makes my enjoyment of comedy and social settings greater, and my likelihood to pursue sex with my wife much greater. I think an optimal amount of drinking for me would be like once a week. That would be my goal with this change.

Right. It's good that you are noticing it. I recommend doing 1-2 months teetotal before re-implementing a healthier drinking habit of once per week. Reset your system. If that's hard, all the more reason to do it. You'll notice things starting to change in your mind and body after 3-4 weeks. The after effects of a heavy drinking habit take a long time to clear out.

Trajectories aren't actually inevitable and the outcome here is underdetermined. Many people just drink a bit too much and never really go beyond just drinking a bit too much.

I think it’s usually better in the case of bad habits to jump ahead before the point of having to figure out if you’re one of the ones that won’t have a major problem simply because digging out from a problem is orders of magnitude harder than stopping before it happens. An alcoholic is compulsively looking for his drink and will look for excuses to get away with drinking. Someone with a bad habit still has control.

Right... edited and expanded.

This is just my own curiosity but - doesn't that make you feel like crap the next day?

I really like drinking, and that's the main thing that holds me back apart from trying to avoid weight gain: that upset stomach/headache feeling persists all the following day for me, and I almost never go beyond 4 total drinks. For context I'm in my mid-30s and in fairly good physical condition.

Light beer or vodka shouldn’t have that much of a hangover if you hydrate.

Wine or whiskey, on the other hand….

As some anecdata from someone that drinks more than I should often enough to have some data, four of five drinks causes me no noticeable ill effect the next day provided that I cease drinking at a reasonably early hour. The negative effects either kick in at higher levels of drinking or from drinking closer to bedtime. I wear a good sports watch that tracks heart rate, stress level, heart rate variability, and sleep quality, and it confirms that basic understanding. Stress and heart rate spike in the timeframe immediately after drinking, drop back to baseline after a few hours, and the impact on sleep quality only occurs if I go to bed when stress and heart rate are still elevated.

This isn't a claim about organ or metabolic health, of course, just relaying some anecdata on short-run effects.

I wonder if your physical fitness plays a role here. Don't you run like 50 miles a week?

Yeah, on average.

I'm a decent bit younger than you, but fortunately I don't really get hungover or queasy, even after far more liquor than is good for my liver (albeit maybe like once or twice a month). I suppose age will catch up to me, but at the very least hydration makes a world of difference.

Sugary drinks gave me the worst hangovers. And I don't have sugar anymore cuz of a diabetes diagnosis. So hangovers are pretty mild.

My sleep schedule has also been real shitty lately, and bad sleep can feel about as bad as a hangover for me.

I am certain the drinking is not helping my sleeping, so it's another reason I'd like to cut back.

I am a doctor but I am not your doctor. The following is essentially a reminder of the importance of healthy life style.

I find that the medical establishment tends to be rather alarmist about alcohol (not necessarily incorrectly, but perhaps unnecessarily aggressively) but the presence of DM (2, presumably) means that curtailing drinking is a lot more important - people who would never drink six bottles of coke will down a six pack over the course of the evening and not realize it's worse for you than the soda.

Diabetes increases the risk of various things with or without obesity and we routinely advise diabetics to avoid extra "hits" to their health accordingly.

Others point out some other considerations here - the potential concern for genetic predisposition to alcoholism, the important of habits and so on.

If it's really just a slide into an unhealthier habit without addiction I'd advise just stopping altogether for a few months to prove to yourself you can. If you can't, that's evidence, what you do with that evidence is up to you. If you can stop, after a while you can try reintroducing and see if you manage it in a healthier way.

If you want help people in your life are almost always going to be better than strangers on the internet. Doesn't need to be phrased in a scary way "hey honey/bro, for health reasons I want to try and skip my after dinner drinks for a little while, can you help nag me?"

An alternate strategy may be a harm reduction approach - Friday nights only or special occasions, something like that.

Since you're dishing out common sense advice that most doctors won't give their patients...

Let's say that you were forced to drink a whole bottle of wine in one night. What would you do to mitigate the worst affects of it?

ChatGPT just tells me not to drink the bottle, lol.

Well. I am not sure I have peer reviewed data for you, but I can tell you what I know as a semi reformed party animal.

  1. A bottle of wine is not a lot of alcohol. Get swole or something if it's a problem.
  2. Don't do other stuff that increases risk of acute or chronic morbidity. Don't drive. Don't take Tylenol. Don't mix in benzos or percs or anything else. Don't be on antibiotics or have liver damage or relevant chronic disease etc etc.
  3. Don't take medication before or after unless you know what you are doing. It'd be rare for a healthy person but Tylenol after drinking could kill you. Other stuff may be more effective and safe but it'd be less responsible to guide with this. 2 and 3 above will protect you if you meant he worst of it in terms of health effects.

If you mean the morning after:

  1. A good chunk of a hangover is mineral and fluid status related. Drink Pedialyte. Maybe Liquid IV. Gatorade and just regular water will help somewhat but the drop off is pretty sharp from something that's actually correct solute wise. If you are rich you could use an IV and that'd work great. Supplement other missing shit (vitamins and minerals) in your morning meal. Eat a banana. In addition to drinking fluid after, do it before.
  2. A good chunk of a hangover is residual hyperglycemia. Go for a run. Light cardio may be the best you can do for most people.
  3. A good chunk of a hangover is nausea and other related stuff. Take a shit. Shower. Get some fluid. Lore is that fatty stuff helps, don't sure what that comes from evidence wise but might be legit. Medical people often use anti-emetics.
  4. A good chunk of a hangover is sleep deprivation. Alcohol makes you pass out. It doesn't make you sleep. These are not the same. Go home/shower/get comfortable then go back to bed. Be less tired and/or exhausted before you drink.
  5. You can also avoid sugary drinks, or sugar in your meals before. Red wine is worse than white, composition of the alcohol, impurities, tannins, all kinds of other stuff can exacerbate hangovers.

If you mean not seeming drunk:

  1. A full stomach seems to reduce total experience of alcohol and damage to the body, maybe? Someone needs to do a paper lol. It does mean you'll seemingly be drunk for potentially longer but will reduce the damage and drunkenness by slowing metabolism down.
  2. Pace yourself. A glass of wine then a glass of water then repeat. People process about a drink an hour (very roughly) go light for long and you might not even notice.
  3. DO NOT RECOMMEND: use of other substances like caffeine can reduce subjective and objective drunkenness. This is obviously highly hazardous to your health, and it reduces subjective a lot more than objective which can be problematic.

Special situation:

  1. If you are asian you might have an actual enzyme deficiency. Google this if you want to try some of the stuff people do to address that.

This brought to you by currently drunk.

I have quit for months at a time to make sure that I can. Last time I did that was a few years ago though. I've got my A1c down to 5 for the past two years, so the diabetes feels under control, but I'm just treating it like its permanent. So no more desserts, no more sugar drinks, and avoiding carb heavy meals.

Quitting sugar was way harder than quitting alcohol. Like incomparably harder. Had days where I screamed and nearly cried from the frustration of not being able to have sweet sugary snacks again. Quitting alcohol was kinda like just having a slightly less active social life, and I'm an introvert already so that was easy to fall into.

My wife will also be holding me to account on the no drinking thing, so this is just me doubling up on the accountability. She will not be drinking at all since we just discovered she is pregnant. Hopefully this one survives.

I'd never suggest this to most patients, but you are a motte poster so I have to imagine you are quite a bit more clear thinking than the average person.

Think about if the juice is worth the squeeze and use that to motivate you. Alcohol is a poison AND it's bad for you AND it has enjoyable effects AND you can enjoy it with full awareness of all this and no guilt if done sensibly and with deliberation.

Identify what an appropriate amount of consumption is for you and use the knowledge of the above to stick to it.

If you can't do that, then attempt to be honest with yourself as to why - are you normally on top of your self-regulation in this way (and is therefore alcohol different), or perhaps you are the kind of person who needs to cold turkey instead of reduce (or vice versa).

Keep an eye out for worrying patterns of use. Not necessarily likely, but very important because the risk is high. Things like: escalating pattern of use (maybe this counts, maybe not), people commenting on your use, using to cover up for bad feelings, stress, life events and so on. Basically have an honest ask with yourself about alcoholism, again not because it's likely but because it's one of the worst ways to die and you want to make sure it's not happening and you aren't lying to yourself about it.

I mentioned elsewhere but I think once a week is a good balancing point where I'm getting something enjoyable out of alcohol and not overdoing it. That is where I'd like to be where I can have a fun social outing with drinking once a week, and otherwise I'm not drinking. And if the social outing doesn't happen I don't want to feel the desire to drink anyways.

I've been at that point before. It just morphed slowly over the last two years to where I'm now at. Now that my wife isn't drinking I very quickly noticed "oh, I'm drinking just about every day".

I've seen my dad get to a worse point with his drinking so I know that's in my genes, but my dad has also lately been where I want to be where it's just a few drinks for social things once a week or every other week.

All that is reasonably reassuring, and putting aside direct health effects and addiction concerns it may be worth asking why you are starting to slide into this habit change. Down about something? Bored? Replacing another habit you used to do that is out of season right now (idk, NFL?).

May be something you can use to push yourself into picking up a new hobby or making a positive lifestyle change or sumthin.

Doesn't alcohol metabolize into sugar, and so it's also bad for diabetics? Not that I can talk as I still have sugar, I just can't quit it. But maybe thinking of alcohol in terms of "this is bad for the beetus" will help you to cut back?

It gets converted into fatty acids as far as I know.

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