domain:youtu.be
Married women are seen as “serving the needs of men,” she says, alienating the group from what could be a more inclusive movement.
Someone should inform my wife
As an aside, it’s ironic that women fear men the most in a place like Korea, statistically one of the safest, close to being THE safest place to be a woman on earth. I wonder what this fact says about women and gender relations . 4B makes a lot more sense in a place like South Africa or perhaps Sudan or Chad. But Korea? Lol
urquan
7m ago
it should be based on something recognisable and draw from the truth even in exaggeration.
The "recognizable" thing is all the media pieces talking about Trump "being in bed with dictators." And the point for people who believe in that is they believe Trump will allow the dictators to attack, and the idea that the US will actually attack is the humorous exaggeration that "draws from the truth" as the people who like the meme understand it.
I agree it's not a good meme, I'm not saying it is, this is not an apologetic. But it doesn't make literally 0% sense to me, I have enough understanding of the point of view behind it that I get what they're saying and why they're saying it, despite disagreeing with great intensity.
hydroacetylene
7m ago
It seems like arranged marriage is another big difference, yes? From my understanding arranged marriages still exist in Japan but are uncommon, while they’re very rare in South Korea and the sinosphere.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
19m ago
imagine that maybe they can personally get ahead enough on the newly established "fight against Trump tooth and nail" ladder that an exemption from 4B is quietly granted to them after all?
"Imagine" is right. The exemptions from 4B will be granted to Chad, like they always are. Chad voted Trump, and he might wear a MAGA hat while collecting 4Bs.
quiet_NaN
20m ago
Meta: your post is 700 characters of your own words, followed by a verbatim quotation more than ten times that length. The source you linked does not seem to be paywalled. Assume that the average reader is tech-savvy enough to click on a link if they want to read the article. Quoting two paragraphs should be plenty if you are not interrupting it with commentary. Besides I gather that the motte is likely run over a jurisdiction in which copyright is a thing, and thus relies on fair use exceptions for quotations.
The article you quoted is clearly partisan. For example, uncritically referring to the gender pay gap is a red flag for me. From my understanding, the pay gap is a typical example of an equality of outcomes, not an equality of opportunity. Women are free to pick high-paying careers like engineering instead of low-paying careers like gender studies.
To this day, young men perceive that discrimination against men is more serious than against women, even though 50 percent of women between the ages of 19-29 say they’ve experienced sexual discrimination at work, compared to 30 percent of their male peers.
The article makes it sound like that statistic clearly refutes the perception of the men, when in reality, it does nothing of that sort. Perhaps men are less likely to see themselves as victims of sex discrimination. Or perhaps the cases of discrimination men experience are more severe.
From 2021 to 2023, female sexual assault victims saw a 15 percent rise.
This sounds like the author was searching for an impressive statistic to support their claim that women are more in danger than ever. Of course, 2021 was still partly COVID. And it could be that it is simply the rate of reporting which increased, which would be great news instead. Of course, it could also be a real increase, and perhaps even part of a worrisome trend instead of a random fluctuation, but so far the author has not shown the non-partisanship that I would just assume that.
It’s an acceleration of the already widening gender gap in American politics, including an increasing number of young men rejecting feminism.
Feminism can mean a lot of different things. The message of woke feminism to white cis-het males seems to be: "You are the oppressor group. By default, you are in the wrong unless conclusively proven otherwise. Your concerns do not matter because they are not the result of structural oppression." Clearly it is a total mystery why that message fails to resonate with young men.
It’s too soon to say if the 4B movement is here to stay in the United States. But even if it isn’t, the surge in interest says something about the social forces unleashed by the 2024 presidential election.
I will make the prediction that it will indeed not stay in the US.
Lots of single people do not participate in the dating market for a variety of reasons, and I doubt that the politics of their preferred gender is the main reason. Many more people will filter dating partners by their politics.
Finally, I think that if you want to avoid having sex with Trump supporters, a better strategy might be to select on geographic location. Fucking people from Hawaii (37.5% Trump) and avoiding people from Alabama (64.8% Trump) would be more effective. Wikipedia has a convenient list of criteria. The urban (38% Trump) vs rural (64% Trump) divide is in any case much stronger than the male (55%) vs female (45%) split.
JarJarJedi
22m ago
I saw no warhawk ever saying Trump would attack South Korea and Taiwan on behalf of China and North Korea. This is literally something nobody believes in. That's what makes it such a bad meme - instead of being based in reality, it just goes "what's the worst thing I can say about person I hate"? That's not how good meme is done, you can't just say maximum vile shit, it should be based on something recognisable and draw from the truth even in exaggeration.
anti_dan
25m ago
There is plenty of evidence. Just not evidence that fits into the special box that people ask for which is "cannot be explained innocently for other reasons". Look at the PA senate race now. The steal is being attempted, it may or may not prevail.
The only way to find definitive proof of fraud, given our current system, is sting operations. A thing the current DOJ refuses to implement, and which they would also put you in prison for life if you attempted.
JarJarJedi
25m ago
Well obviously Trump is hitler because it's on the left. But what is that crap with balancing and nuking South Korea? Trump never not only wanted to do anything like that but was accused about anything like that. Same for Taiwan. Worst that was said about him that he may cut off aid to Ukraine, but that is far from what is being displayed, as if Trump is going to do worse that Russia, China and North Korea taken together, by far. This is just stupid.
hydroacetylene
25m ago
On a global level this is exactly what's happening. The most talented and proficient are not reproducing.
At least in the US, this actually isn’t true- I made a top level comment about it a few months back. Blacks are the only group for whom the unsuccessful have generally higher fertility than the successful. For everyone else, higher income=higher fertility.
Skibboleth
28m ago
Can you to be more specific about what effective interventions you're thinking about? The main causes of the European-American life expectancy gap is not a mystery, and I promise you it's not tripotassium phosphate or excessive vaccinations.
Like, stricter regulations on microplastics or whatever would be great, but the effects on life expectancy are going to be completely swamped by obesity, drugs, car accidents, and suicides. (Not to mention, the GOP traditional stance on environmental and health issues makes me think there's not going to be much appetite for imposing additional standards on industry).
I agree that America should be more like Europe and Asia by harshly prosecuting violent crime and refusing to tolerate drugs.
The US prosecutes violent and drug crimes far more harshly than Europe, as I'm sure you are well aware. Tolerance is not the issue.
hydroacetylene
30m ago
What if the intended effect is not that progressive men continue whatever they were doing and get arbitrarily punished with sex withdrawal, nor that some random conservative men also get caught up and punished
I’m pretty sure that the intended effect is to inspire conservative women that they have safety in numbers and can leave their abusive husbands to become happy progressives.
That this belief is delusional and the husbands are probably not more abusive than the general population is of no matter; this is a small group of radicals.
urquan
33m ago
The mating hasn’t been assorted in any real sense because most conservatives live in the Midwest/South/Western Plains where the women LARPing Bad Handmaiden don’t live or even visit.
With mass media and the internet, there are people like anything in every place, just in different proportions. I come from a red area of a red state, and yet there are many progressives here -- I was one, when I was a high schooler. And I've known a great many feminists terrified of Trump who were born and raised here. I've even known women who somehow fit in their brains both evangelicalism and feminism: my favorite was the woman who was obsessed with feminism and railed against the patriarchy, but wouldn't date me (despite straightforwardly saying she wanted to) because, at the time, I was an atheist. Modernity is a funhouse mirror.
4bpp
このMOLOCHだ！
39m ago
This is commonly treated as a slam-dunk argument that Western 4B is counterproductive, but is it really so? What if the intended effect is not that progressive men continue whatever they were doing and get arbitrarily punished with sex withdrawal, nor that some random conservative men also get caught up and punished, but that the men of the tribe go and figure out some way of making sure Trump doesn't win again, be it by running a better campaign, falsifying votes, principles-be-damned lawfare or one million assassination attempt suicide runs on him? What is the actual ratio of blue-tribe men who see the 4B threat and defect to the red tribe to ones who will redouble their efforts whether because they think of tribal duty or imagine that maybe they can personally get ahead enough on the newly established "fight against Trump tooth and nail" ladder that an exemption from 4B is quietly granted to them after all?
Throughout history, propaganda of the form "women will spurn you if you don't do this self-sacrificial thing" has been leveraged too often to be dismissed out of hand. In fact, per what some other posters in these threads say, in general the Korean message that women will not put out unless men work 60-hour weeks to buy a house seems to be achieving its goal just fine, and most Korean men do go on to climb the standard career ladder and work 60-hour weeks and support the lifestyle of their women through the system, rather than "defecting" and going to fraternize with and dedicate their labour to some group of enemy women from the 4Bers' outgroup. Tribal loyalty is strong, and if you write from the perspective of the outgroup it is all too easy to be biased in a way like "Why would blue men not just go red then? As far as my red eyes see, life on the red side is perfectly fine!".
magic9mushroom
If you're going to downvote me, and nobody's already voiced your objection, please reply and tell me
40m ago
Of him trying? Dunno, don't know his positions or conflict-comfort well enough.
Of him trying and it sticking? <10%, if nothing else he'd probably be impeached for that.
Thought about editing one of the above posts to note these but didn't get around to it.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
57m ago
I kinda doubt that. People have lived in much worse conditions than the Gen Z PMC people deciding not to have kids. Go look at video of any third world slum — people have kids when things like electricity and running water aren’t available. They have babies in war zones. I can’t see that and then look at Gen Z refusing to have kids and see financial issues being the real reason.
I have a few hypotheses.
First, I think American children are much slower to mature emotionally and mentally. 25 year olds in the USA still act like teenagers and are still into drunken partying, staying out late to go clubbing. They aren’t really ready to settle into parenthood even if they had the means because they aren’t ready for the responsibility of a baby.
Second, Americans are pretty hedonistic. A baby isn’t about you, and worse requires sacrificing your lifestyle in major ways. You need to get serious about a career and making money because the baby needs food and diapers. You might hate what you are doing, but you don’t have the same choices that you have as a child-free couple. Likewise every other choice you make now has to include planning for the baby. You want to go out to dinner, you either find a sitter or the baby comes along. And I think the lifestyle most young adults like living just doesn’t have the room for a baby.
FistfullOfCrows
1hr ago
I don't know why the election has triggered a renewed gender war.
DNC shills and the usual suspects thought painting alt-right/maga as incels and pickup artists would be a great tactic to win some of that white woman vote. Relentles spam and inauthentic posts have been spewed down websites like 4chan and normie tier places like youtube and facebook, always focused on fomenting inter-gender animosity.
Celestial-body-NOS
🟦 All human beings are equal, **even when they aren't.**
1hr ago
It is a bit odd how worried people are about credentials.
"Remember, a lone amateur built the Ark. A whole team of professionals built the Titanic."
Hoffmeister25
American Bukelismo Enthusiast
1hr ago
Have to wonder if OP meant Macau
hydroacetylene
1hr ago
Stupid autocorrect. I meant Macao.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
1hr ago
The other thing is that the targets of this are very likely fellow democrats. The mating hasn’t been assorted in any real sense because most conservatives live in the Midwest/South/Western Plains where the women LARPing Bad Handmaiden don’t live or even visit. They’re not really going to stick it to Trump voters, they aren’t dating them anyway. They’re refusing sex with Dudes for Harris.
DirtyWaterHotDog
1hr ago
Third - you can take a blond hottie out of fox news, but you can never take fox news out of her
Megyn Kelly has done well to beat the 'blondes age badly' stereotype. Good for her.
DirtyWaterHotDog
1hr ago
Korean journalists - especially ones who know enough English to write for foreign journals like CNN and the NYT - are largely drawn from those upper-class women who went through college in the humanities and were radicalized on third-wave feminism.
Korean friend points out, Korean journalists frequently cite foreign (CNN, NYT, etc) articles about Korean gender wars to assert that these things are real, without thinking about the filter effect and the fact that the foreign journalists' friends are all upper-class English-speaking Koreans (i.e. filtered for feminists).
The resemblance to urban Indians is uncanny. Almost beat for beat.
- Dads worked insanely hard to give kids a good life. Absent from home.
- Moms over worked at home and ignored. Kids perceive dad as evil.
- Women enter workforce en masse and start outperforming men because of affirmative action and strong preference for women in schooling.
- Cities are bonkers expensive (Mumbai is more expensive per-sqft than SF)
- Women enter liberal arts, and import western 3rd wave feminism whole sale
- These women run all western MSM-aligned and portray men as trash
- Indian men say fuck-this and live with their bros. Women ain't shit.
- Eventually, 30+ men are married off to 30+ women in arranged marriages. Both lack co-ed socialization and have knee-jerk dislike for the other.
- Divorce rates go through the roof.... (we are here right now)
Thankfully, there are a few main differences:
- India is still poor. So wages haven't stagnated. There is still hope among men that their lives can be better than their parents. Optimism keeps defeatist incel-adjacent ideas sweeping the culture. (still, lots of Indian incels)
- Indians are more outspoken. The culture is not as suffocatingly conformist as East Asia.
- New cities are being built. So, while Delhi & Mumbai have become unaffordable, couples are moving to Hyd, Bangalore, Gurgaon, etc.
- The majority is still rural. So, 3rd wave feminists haven't been able to quite takeover the culture like SK.
- Lastly, other Indians speak English too. So, the voices of dissent are just as loud, even if western MSM won't platform them.
(Note: I am talking about upper middle class urban culture. Rural & Poor India is a very different world)
This, AOC and others testing the waters for dropping trans issues, and the sale of InfoWars to Jeff Lawson and Ben Collin's Global Tetrahedron makes me think James Carville is back in the seat and the 2026 DNC playbook has dropped.
The Onion is playing up the sabotage of a (sort of) right-wing cultural institution to pacify the base, but really what they're after is the subscriber database which is filled with the contact info for an ethnically diverse group of men without college degrees demonstrably susceptible to tenuously plausible messaging.
I expect once the sale is completed there will be a hardcore attempt to astroturf a whole new podcast market, probably sometime next year, likely officially divorced from any current media stakeholders. I honestly don't know what hay if any they'll be able to make from it unless Trump's term is tangibly a shitshow for men. I think about the centrist and right-wing dissident podcast circuit and I can't currently conceive how they could both appeal to working class men (specifically Latino and whites) and also lead them to vote blue in 2026. Neo-Bernie bro? Blue Mike Rowe? Pro-establishment Jimmy Dore? Maybe all they can do is try to spread FUD about Trump and try to keep them home in 2026.
CertainlyWorse
No one is coming. It's just you.
1hr ago
I think some non-trivial portion of his starting picks won't remain in their positions until the end of his term. I'd say 25%. Either because Trump removes them or they remove themselves.
While women are largely the gatekeepers of sex, I don't understand how a sort of threat of withholding it would work on a macro level. My understanding is that by and large the sex that happens is mutually desired by both parties, so trying to go on strike will hurt the women as much as it does the men.
My understanding of the labor perspective is that strikes work through government capture or extralegal action such as assaulting strikebreakers. Though maybe an industry wide or general strike can work without those elements, they still require some representative to go to the bargaining table.
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