site banner
PaperclipPerfector  9mo ago (text post)   2655 thread views

Wellness Wednesday for February 28, 2024

The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:

  • Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.

  • Updates to let us know how you are doing. This provides valuable feedback on past advice / encouragement and will hopefully make people feel a little more motivated to follow through. If you want to be reminded to post your update, see the post titled 'update reminders', below.

  • Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.

  • Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).

2
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I had a 12 week prenatal appointment, and the heartbeat sounds normal, so that's good.

They also drew 5 vials of blood without much explanation, which has happened with previous pregnancies as well. There was a new questionnaire about belonging to groups with higher than usual genetic risks, which included Ashkenazi, which I had heard of, as well as certain Asan groups and French Quebecois, which I hadn't heard of before. There were no questions about my gender, which appeared two years ago. The position of the ultrasound scheduling office is "don't call us, we'll call you."

That seems like too much blood

I was surprised. It looks like they're doing blood cell counts, antibody counts, and insulin tests. I guess maybe they wanted some more blood on hand, just in case something was off?

Happy to hear that. Do they actually tend to postpone the scheduling quite a lot, or do they just not want to be bothered by nagging worried first-timers? On the blood, you can get a surprising amount of information just from the mother's blood, so that seems reasonable to me. Though it's weird they don't mention it, we usually got told explicitly that the blood values look good/not good, but presumably that means everything is fine for you. My wife has chronic low iron values unless she eats way more meat than she likes to.

We recently had the big checkup ultrasound (around 14-16 weeks, dunno how it varies by country, I presume not much?) for our second and everything came out fine which was a great relieve. My wife got cortisone in the first few weeks of the pregnancy when we didn't know, which increases the chance of lip/facial clefts + I have a minor facial cleft myself, so we were worried about that - genetic and environmental risks generally add up quite well unfortunately. We're also moving into the age bracket where major disabilities become frighteningly common.

Congratulations on your wife's pregnancy!

Maybe the person who schedules the ultrasounds is out this week or something? They also work with students, so last time I got two slightly longer appointments where an ultrasound student did the exam under guidance, so it's possible the scheduling is a bit complicated. They do an anatomy scan at 18-20 weeks, and sometimes look at something at 10 weeks, but I've never managed to get an appointment in time for that, though I probably could if I really insisted.

Does anyone have advice on how to get more comfortable with being alone for the foreseeable future?

I broke up with a long term girlfriend a while ago (lovely woman, didn't want kids.) I discovered the dating market had gotten horribly worse during the relationship and I no longer have a chance; I've also roughly aged out of the bracket who can reasonably get married. I am going to spend the next forty years or so single and alone. I have intellectually accepted this but I'm still having extremely strong emotional reactions, and I still feel awful by myself.

I tried to talk to a therapist but of course he

a) rainmade me, with no intention of getting me to the point where I won't need therapy. (The overwhelming majority of therapists have never considered the idea of patients getting better, because most people going to therapists just want to feel special, not get better.)

b) told me that I wasn't going to be alone and didn't need to deal with that long term.

I'm not sure what I should do to establish a way to be calm and happy by myself; I'm frustratingly extroverted and need people to talk to and be close with. Can I train myself out of this?

Uh I mean. I'm sure you have your reasons, but I guess I'll suggest the obvious:

I broke up with a long term girlfriend a while ago (lovely woman, didn't want kids.)

Are you sure you can't work it out with her? either with kids, or without? It sounds like she might be the one and only for you... otherwise, being alone is pretty tough, especially for

I'm frustratingly extroverted and need people to talk to and be close with

get ready for a life of ladies nights, mixers, and strip clubs.

Can I train myself out of this?

no (speaking as a guy in a similar situation)

I had the same problem and CBT (David burns, "Feeling Good") mostly fixed it. Not completely, I still feel a little lonely from time to time. But I am no longer the living stereotype of the seething incel.

I'm not sure about the midlife dating market, but on the frustratingly extroverted side of things, I know people who have had a good experience with couch surfing, both visiting and hosting. One got married to someone from a local couch surfing meetup. I tried, and it was generally safe and fun, but I was personally insufficiently extroverted.

Yeah, that was pretty good around 2010 or so I hear, but collapsed a few years after.

There is a weird sense of freedom that comes with truly believing you will never find another suitable relationship. It opens you up to trying weird things. If you believe everything that you do will leave you single and alone then there aren't any real consequences to your future relationships by trying new things and failing.

You could try weird/new things to break out of your thought pattern. In certain contexts you are correct that dating gets hard past a certain age, but you can change the context to make it easier. There are lots of places you can seek unconventional relationships, but you have tunnel-vision and have already dismissed them.

Also, if you are going to be alone forever you might want to look into communities that explore spiritually/contemplative/meditative practices to alleviate your suffering. Being connected to something larger than yourself may help provide a sense of meaning/purpose in your life.

I don't think you will be alone forever. I think you just have given yourself too many constraints on how to approach the problem and it is preventing you from discovering a clever solution.

Yeah, might be time to do what I want rather than chase the decaying hope I could be normal enough to find someone. I'm not sure what I do want, but that could be interesting.

I tried meditation like everyone else did in 2015, and I'm too ADHD to manage it, sadly.

Even as savage as the dating market can be as you age, it doesn't mean you won't find a good relationship again. It will just take time, and from the state of dating apps I think you're better off pursuing this passively though attending social groups.

This can kill two birds with one stone. You can have people to talk to and hopefully get closer to over time while fulfilling your need for social interaction. I'm an introvert, but still get value out of attending meetups (where I've met girlfriends and friends over the years).

It's common for people to go through something like 3 different therapists before they find one that they click with. Don't presume all therapists will be like that guy. Even if I agree that you're unlikely to be alone longterm, it seems like the way he went about convincing you that that was the case was pretty blase.

As for being happy by yourself, you can hedge your bets. There must be some activity you enjoy doing by yourself. You don't need to do it all the time, but help fulfill the gaps in your free time between social events.

It's common for people to go through something like 3 different therapists before they find one that they click with. Don't presume all therapists will be like that guy.

I mean, I've gone through half a dozen as an adult, but it took me a while to work out the common link: none of them want to fix you. Putting aside that they have no financial incentive to do so, they just don't see it as their job. From a now-deleted Twitter account:

I asked a therapist once at a party how many of her patients had ever been cured to the point they could stop therapy and live normally. She looked confused by the question, then said "none".

Think about the median person who makes "men do X rather than go to therapy" jokes: they think that "going to therapy" is a religious ritual, and it gives them feelings of being a special person with Traumas who is being Treated. They have never considered the idea of getting better, so their therapist hasn't cultivated the idea either.

The overwhelming majority of therapists just want to treat people, not cure them, and there's no good way to filter out the tiny handful that actually have better plans. Since the going rate in my city is $400-600/hr, insurance haha you must be joking, I don't see much value in trying here. (This industry may be well intentioned but I think it's mostly evil.)

That is weird. I've had two therapists who I saw for a few months each, and they both were pretty clear about addressing my problem and getting me out of there. I did screen for serious CBTers though.

The screening for serious CBTers is what got you that. Until I hunted down a by-the-book CBT practitioner, the therapists I've seen have been eclectic talk therapists who followed no particular school and had no particular goals for my treatment -- and for whom, therefore, a well-defined timeline made no sense.

Things like "measurable goals," "progress tracking," "time-limited treatment," and "homework," are pretty foreign to a lot of more eclectic practitioners. I generally feel the field is utterly saturated with quackery and non-serious therapy styles that make no difference in people's lives. I get the sense this is what clients actually want -- someone to act as a soundboard without giving particular challenges. But that's exactly the opposite of what people dealing with mental illness truly need. I think the explosion of mentally well people visiting therapists has had something big to do with it.

Did you have some sort of insurance with limited session coverage?

Nope, I was mostly paying out of pocket.

Your therapist is most likely right on point b, but it sounds like he brushed it off when I don't think he should have. I've seen people of all ages get together, even married, and I don't think you should write your chances off just yet. For example, my uncle has had multiple girlfriends after my aunt's death 10 years ago - he is in his 60s and doing just fine romantically. He would've been remarried by now too, if not for some difficulties that are specific to his situation.

That said, while I think you're wrong about your chances with women I am sure it doesn't seem that way from where you stand. That's tough, and honestly I'm not sure how one might best tackle that issue. Maybe if your therapist doesn't want to talk about it, you might want to consider a new therapist or something.

As far as the question you asked, it's hard for me to conceive of needing to be around people because I love being alone. But maybe you need to find hobbies you enjoy which are solitary pursuits? It seems like maybe if you are feeling fulfilled and happy while you're alone, you will eventually find it easier to tolerate. I really don't know for sure though, that's just a wild guess.

For example, my uncle has had multiple girlfriends after my aunt's death 10 years ago - he is in his 60s and doing just fine romantically. He would've been remarried by now too, if not for some difficulties that are specific to his situation.

Someone who was successful before continues to be successful again. I've never been married after 20 years of trying to date, so I don't think there's going to be much correlation between me and your uncle. Anyone who would consider marrying me would first ask "what did 20 years of women know that I don't?"

I've really accepted this, it's OK, I don't need platitudes about how it'll happen. I won't have kids and I will be alone. Litany of Tarski says to believe it. I just want to not end up sad and crying because I feel alone.

Well let me add another anecdote onto the pile, then. At 30 years old, I was not only single, I had never even been on a single date. Every time I asked a girl out, I was politely rejected (at best, sometimes worse). I was 100% certain I would die alone, having never even kissed a girl, and I had made my peace with that. That year (for reasons that aren't important), in a fit of pique I made an account on okcupid and I was able to actually get a date. I've now been married to that woman for 7 years.

I'm not telling you platitudes here. I'm trying to tell you, based on real personal experience, that we never know what's in store for us. I was 100% certain that I would be single forever, and I would've staked anything at all in a bet to that effect. But I was wrong. You might be right and you might actually be single for the rest of your life. The point is that I don't think you should treat it as a foregone conclusion, because it isn't. Just take it one day at a time and keep yourself open to the possibility that things might change for you, and it's impossible to predict.

Hope is the thing that kills me.

When I say that I'm single and having trouble, friends of mine always say "but you're so attractive, you should be killing it on Tinder/Hinge." This drives me literally insane. Men sometimes think I'm handsome, but women absolutely do not. I have empirical proof of this. I have A/B tested it on the dating apps; I have compared my match rates to others; I have heard the tiny handful of matches I got explicitly say "nah, you're not attractive enough to go out on a date with." I am ugly. Stop telling me I am not. It makes me really angry because I then have to answer why I'm such a failure even though I "should " succeed. So yeah, I'm sure it worked out for you and I'm happy for you. But saying stuff like this just makes me sadder about how I can't make it work.

Hence why I want to accept the truth of reality and move on.

It's not really about hope imo, it's more about being realistic. Instead of "I'm going to be alone forever, how do I cope", I would argue that your planning process should be "I'm alone right now, how do I cope". Don't assume what your future will look like, whether that's being single or not. I think that's the realistic (and healthier) approach.

Trust me, I do understand how you feel. In truth I doubt that 10 years ago I would've listened to what I'm saying now. The human brain is a real bitch that way. I do hope you can be at peace one way or the other, man.

This is my tenth birthday, incidentally.

Come on @ZorbaTHut, just casually violating COPPA, collecting data on this guy. Tsk tsk.

Happy birthday, Steff. Here's to ten more.

Do you ever have problems with bureaucracy or automated systems when you provide your birthday?

How about informally? Any other complications?

In the '00s and so on there were occasionally web forms where you couldn't enter Feb 29th even on leap years, but haven't encountered one of those in a long time. Otherwise no issues.

Do you normally celebrate your birthday on February 28th, or March 1st?

28th.

I've been sober since December, but I think I might start drinking once a week again in order to improve my social life. I've made some progress at sober socializing, but then I got to a plateau where I started losing interest/motivation. The people I meet IRL aren't interested in having deep conversations about the things I'm interested in, and navigating modern conversation norms is exhausting.

Can you prevent most of the long-term damage from alcohol by boosting glutathione to quickly break down the acetaldehyde?

How effective is this supplement stack at preventing the negative effects of alcohol?

Before drinking: emoxypine, milk thistle, S-Acetyl L-Glutathione

After drinking: Dihydromyricetin, Pyroglutamic Acid, Succinic Acid

The people I meet IRL aren't interested in having deep conversations about the things I'm interested in, and navigating modern conversation norms is exhausting.

"I gave up drinking, but I'm so smart I can't have conversations with the normies" isn't the vibe you want to give off, my guy.

Turn it into a game - learn how to do the normie conversation dance and get good enough at it you can lead them to having the "deeper" conversations you value. The major up front caveat here is that "deep" conversations can, and should, be about whatever topic BOTH parties are interested in. Don't be that guy who just steers conversation toward whatever your thing is. That's selfish. Everyone craves these "deep" conversations but a lot of people think "deep" only counts if its their preferred flavor of "deep."

But, let's go ahead and think of the bigger (deeper?) picture -

All conversation is valuable if you want it to be. Small talk is underappreciated and over-maligned. Small talk shows you can have easy, non-weighty conversation with all types of people and not DEMAND up front commitment to a three hour navel gazing session. In fact, conversation among close friends is 99% small talk but with shared references and values that make it highly enjoyable. If you really want to try to convince me you aren't guilty of slinging memes back and forth with your besties, I'll believe you on this holy internet forum of honesty - but will you believe yourself?

Small-talk is people trying to let you in for the deeper stuff while guarding themselves. If you can't tolerate that then they are absolutely right in not wanting to talk to you.

Finally, and I mean this charitably, take a second to decide if what you really want is to have a conversation with another unique human .... or to have an audience.

I can do small talk and sometimes even get a bit of enjoyment from it. The problem IRL is that many people's beliefs are so intertwined with their politics. If I talk about something completely unrelated to politics they might bring up progressive stack concepts as a way to discount a source.

I do talk about things they are interested in too, but they aren't interested my truth-seeking style of discussing the topic. I like to pull in a lot of data, consider all sides of an argument, and explore the topic in novel ways. Most IRL people seem to just want the social confirmation/validation of their deep thoughts instead of wanting to think in a scientist/rationalist adjacent style.

The thing is I've found online spaces where I can talk about deep things in a way all participants enjoy. We use our real names and do video conferencing. So some of this is specifically me being frustrated by IRL people because they are so different than my far away friends that I talk to virtually.

decide if what you really want is to have a conversation with another unique human .... or to have an audience.

Sometimes I'll watch a podcast where 2 people get deep dialogue on a subject. I'd like to be participating in conversations like those without being on a podcast.

Consider taking Nicotinamide mononucleotide, which has other beneficial effects, and some evidence it alleviates hangover symptoms.

https://share.snipd.com/chapter/8e9f4c1a-d114-4a37-bda3-83fa86288771

I can anecdotally report that I have not had a serious hangover after drinking since I started supplementing with this.

That's interesting. I do sometimes take NAD+ precursors, but I never realized that it might help prevent hangovers.

It makes sense if NAD+ precursors could, e.g. improve liver function, that it would improve alcohol tolerance and processing.

Gotta be careful not to use this as an excuse to drink more heavily, though.

Can't you just drink a little less? Most of the time I'm out socialising I limit myself to 3-5 pints as to avoid or limit hangover. Just get a mild buzz and stop there.

How often are you out in social settings where you're expected to drink anyway? For me it's like 1-2 times a week tops. I might be older than you and have different obligations but I cant remember a period of my life when there was so much social drinking ecpected of me that it became a health issue since I was like 19-20.

When I drink I aim for .05-.08 BAC, but sometimes I'll get as high as .1 BAC. I have a series of controls in places to make sure I stick to that that when drinking. I don't get hangovers. I just want to limit negative effects as much as a I can. I have noticed that certain parts of memory (like word recall) feel a bit worse as I've gotten older and I don't want alcohol to exacerbate any memory issues.

I'm not in many social settings where I'm expected to drink and I know how to politely decline alcohol in these settings. The issue is more that drinking gets into a playful mood and allows me to practice humor and different ways of being charismatic. When I don't drink for long periods of time I start to lose my interest in socializing and the more creative/playful parts of me get weaker, which makes it harder to connect with people.

Honestly? Anyone who has a problem with your sobriety simply isn't worth your time to begin with. An actual friend is going to support you if you're trying to remain sober. Don't take up drinking again just to try to get along better with those losers.

Almost everyone I know supports my sobriety. I have a few friends that say things like, "we miss seeing you at the bar it is more fun when you're here", but that is no big deal.

This issue is more that alcohol allows me to get into a playful state that makes socializing fun. If I stay sober for long periods of time my interest in socializing goes down and I tend to get fixated on special interests. I get bored with IRL conversations because nobody wants to have deep conversations or talk much about the things that I find interesting.

I get bored with IRL conversations because nobody wants to have deep conversations or talk much about the things that I find interesting.

I think a lot of users on this forum would run into that problem eventually.

Ah, I misunderstood. Unfortunately I don't have any advice I can give on that one, as that isn't something I have ever struggled with. I definitely don't think drinking is the answer here, but I'm not sure what is.

I had good results with n acetyl cysteine during and after drinking. I'd say it reduced the strength of hangovers by 30%.

Edit: One month later, I'm adding a study.

Just drink bro. Everything good that has happened to me has been a result of drinking. The only thing that really helps is if you want to take charcoal pills. But that just makes it so you can drink more without a hangover. 85% of the people on this forum are interesting high IQ shut-ins that wouldn't know what to do with a vodka shot if it spat in their face.

It makes TV and movies 10x better. It makes conversation 3x easier. It is all around a huge life enhancer. After about 1.5 to 3 drinks you'll be in the "Ballmer peak" where you are actually smarter, more coordinated and much more charming than you are with zero alcohol.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=VTSCppeFzX4?si=TMUu96ErWVwaP2X6

I kind of hate that I like myself better when I'm 2 drinks in, and suddenly social situations are 'easy' to navigate, I'm more witty and charming and let slights roll of me without a care.

If alcohol didn't cause all those other health problems in the long term, I'd probably keep myself in a constant state of light inebriation except when I really needed to call on my self-control.

There's actual tech devoted towards curing hangovers danger now which would certainly remove some of the reluctance.

Yeah, that's what happens when you just drink.

The other replies are exactly what you'd expect.

Absurd to pretend like food and TV isn't sometimes improved with alcohol. Or that the ballmer peak of sociability doesn't exist.

Or that drinking until you're hungover is a requirement? All these supplements, when a pickle, 2 cups of water, and ibuprofen, will completely solve your problem.

Yup. It is like this here and on slatestar. Bunch of tea totalers. Social drinking would solve 80% of the "I'm lonely" posts.

Between that and acting like getting into a fist fight is mortal danger, I sometimes feel like I've been beamed to another planet.

Yup I've had 2 replies already that have straight up called me an alcoholic for suggesting drinking might be fun and improve your enjoyment of certain activities. Which it 100% without a doubt does. Same people would probably think I'm suicidal for skiing without a helmet or picking fights when the singing is done on south bank of the Liffey. Life is for living. Not sneering.

I feel sorry for people that don't drink, because when they wake up in the morning, that is the best they are going to feel all day-” ― Frank Sinatra/Dean Martin

No, people called you an alcoholic because you suggested drinking as a solution to someone's problems. Which I think is harsh but I get it. If someone needs alcohol to enjoy activities, then that's a strong sign of alcoholism.

I said they make them better and more enjoyable. He said he wanted to start drinking again to have more enjoyable interactions. I think it is a good idea. No one said anything about need. I was just pointing out what billions of people know already. Alcohol makes a lot of stuff more fun. Apparently that is a trigger in online rationalist adjacent spaces.

I mean I disagree with the idea that alcohol makes things more fun, as I said in another comment. But even if I did think that was true, I think that while you might not need alcohol to enjoy life, it's still bad advice to tell someone "hey if you aren't enjoying life you should drink". Because in that case, the person you are talking to would wind up needing alcohol to enjoy life and that's a terrible thing.

More comments

How does that solve the long term problems, i.e. significantly increased risks of all sorts of illnesses?

I think drinking 2-3 times a week is absolutely worth the cost, from all the articles I've read.

I make the same decision about Philly Cheesesteaks and fast food.

If you're maximizing longevity of life over quality, that's a valid decision, but I've never been interested in that.

Fair, but I'll just add: Longevity is likely to affect quality, too. Low quality years marred by sickness are likely to come sooner and take up more of your lifespan if you haven't respected your health.

I agree with you there, too.

Alcohol is the opposite of a wonder drug. I've drank it 5 days a week and 0, and the latter is preferable. Especially as I age, I see it's role as far more minor in my life.

All that being said, some of the best nights of my life have involved it as a central theme. The best relationships have had it greasing the skids. The most delicious foods have been complimented by some form of alcohol. Those of you who are eschewing it completely while your body can handle the downsides of the toxin may be missing out on more than a bit. I don't think a drug lasts this long and has such a stranglehold on our species for 0 reason.

My experience with alcohol is completely different. I will not offer studies and data but only my personal anedcotes - my "lived experience" if I may.

I find even the smell of alcohol nauseating and I had never tasted alcohol until 18 despite the Italian legal age being 16. Due to this I've gotten drunk only once and it was an experience that I can descrive only as the one of the most horrible things that I've ever happened to me. It was not the hangover that upset me so much as the emotional state that alcohol provoked. It turns out that alcohol makes me really really depressed, in a very existential way: I start to think about how everything is useless and life is ultimately meaningless and worthless. On one hand, this is what I actually think, on the other hand these thoughts generally stay in a way analytical, cold part of my mind; alcohol makes me feel these thoughts, they become emotions: the terror, the despair, the feeling of the Nothingness that was, is and will be beyond. It was terrifying. For me it was a "Never again" moment.

As with everything, I think there is a strong genetic component in people reactions to alcohol.

As with everything, I think there is a strong genetic component in people reactions to alcohol.

For sure. And, for what it's worth, despite being an advocate of 2-5 drinks (depending on body weight and tolerance) I also get unbelievably morose and existential beyond that.

IDK man. I drink occasionally, and I disagree that it actually makes food taste better or makes relationships better. I drink because I enjoy the taste of some drinks, not because it actually enhances other things.

Red wine with chicken parm, and white with piccata? Bourbon with Conecuh or steak? A beer before barbecue? Margaritas and burritos? We're talking about our individual palates at one level, but these are classic pairings.

For relationships, alcohol is an intimacy accelerator. When you only have one night to get someone's attention, it's incredibly valuable. Most people aren't capable of talking deeply about philosophy or what they need from a relationship within 5 minutes of meeting you, in fact, it's creepy unless you've had a drink or two.

More comments

I agree that it can have real upsides. I drink a couple of units sometimes, like with a gourmet meal or when meeting a friend I haven't seen in a while. It's just the habit that I want to remain free of. Better to wait for the right occasion, and then drink something especially delicious, than to try to use alcohol to create an occasion. :)

It makes TV and movies 10x better. It make conversation 3x easier.

Maybe for deeply addicted alcoholics unable to function without their fix.

Spoken like an alcoholic, to be honest. It does not necessarily make TV or movies better. You're just using it to adjust your mood. You get your fix, you feel happy, you get in the flow of enjoying stuff. Thinking you're smarter while significantly inebriated is very much an illusion too. It wrecks any complex thinking, while making you think it doesn't. Your conversation will flow easier, sure, but discerning people will identify you as a faucet.

It's better IMO to put down the emotional/mental baggage that hinders your enjoyment of sober life instead of relying on an unhealthy crutch... This is not to say that people should never drink, but it should be done more deliberately, and less, rather than reaching to it several times per week as a fix or 'enhancement'.

Kinda harsh man. Sounds like you could use a beer.

If you're wasted out of your gourd then yes you'll be annoying to be around. But a night out with friends, office party, a wedding or a thanksgiving meal are all a ton more fun when the booze is flowing, even a deep chat with a best pal you only see once a year is better when you've both had a few drams of whisky. I'm sorry that hasn't been your experience. My comment was about OP deciding to drink once a week while socializing. You really think agreeing with that sentiment makes someone an alcoholic?

A month ago I made a post exploring whether nicotine could be used to addict oneself to housework. Since then, I've received a number of private messages asking for an update. I happily report overwhelming success. Last month I couldn't have imagined making my home presentable. Now it's clean and organized from top to bottom (even my storage room and closets are tidy), tastefully decorated, and I've even hosted friends a few times, something I hadn't done in years. And the best part is it took absolutely no discipline. In the same way an alcoholic isn't using willpower to trudge a couple miles through the snow to the nearest liquor store, I just go into autopilot and let my addiction take over. I can't get over how absolutely life-changing this has been at the cost of zero effort. I'm not recommending this to anyone else, but if you're already addicted to nicotine please consider which habits and thought-processes you're reinforcing and which ones you'd like to reinforce.

I've had similar success but with caffeine instead of nicotine.

I like your sense of humor. :)

I'm already addicted to Nicotine. Badly. I take maybe 100 hits of my vape daily.

I don't have issues with doing good things. My room is spotless, I lift, run and work 10-12 hours a day. But I do have a problem with doing bad things. I vape, masturbate, and waste time on the computer much more than I'd like. I'd like to make the list of bad things shorter before I make the list of good things longer (even though I will eventually get back to this).

Any idea how I can perhaps work in a negative reinforcement habit?

If said masturbation is accompanied by porn usage, I've had great results by cutting porn out. YMMV but masturbation generally leaves me feeling lethargic, so no porn = less masturbation = more energy. Not to say I haven't found plenty of other ways to waste time at the PC.

If you vape at or around your computer it's probably reinforcing the browsing and masturbation, I've spent a third as much time online since I started this and now I can't remember how I was able to spend all day scrolling. My best suggestion would be to avoid any nicotine during the things you're trying to avoid, and find better or neutral behaviors to replace them with so you can still vape. I'm not sure your specific problem with masturbation but I wouldn't be surprised if the gooning phenomenon were directly correlated with vaping.

TMI section: One part of this reinforcement I didn't mention is that along with the housework, I've started taking a hit right before and as I orgasm, but at no other point during masturbation.1 I used to like edging and opening tabs for hours but this has made me eager to finish quickly, saving me time and dramatically improving my sexual stamina. I'm also aroused more often and have more sexual fantasies while I'm out and about, which I consider healthy and preferable but might not be a goal of yours.

1 this is part of my longstanding efforts to give myself a sex addiction

I'm not sure your specific problem with masturbation but I wouldn't be surprised if the gooning phenomenon were directly correlated with vaping.

What is the gooning phenomenon? I learned of this term probably within the past couple years, and I just thought it was just zoomer slang for masturbating a lot, which men have been doing since the invention of hands. Is it just that people are now forming an identity around this as a hobby?

My whole-language-method understanding of the term as it's used on the imageboards is that it denotes masturbating to material in the broad-spectrum information overload hyperstimulus style that certain zoomer subcultures are into.

(Also another instance of C(C)ooC being a sound pattern largely reserved for slurs and base behaviours in English)

Is it just that people are now forming an identity around this as a hobby?

If you are having trouble filling out the "Other Interests" section of your resume...

Where is your partner in all of this?

I'm single.

Having a partner will stop you from blowing big clouds. Because A. It looks trashy and no decent woman or man would stand for it. B. You won't feel the need to fill those empty moments with anything but clever banter!

Could you explain the exact procedure? Maybe I didn't read your original post carefully enough, but it wasn't clear to me exactly what you were doing. What is the dose/timing/delivery method, etc? How do you avoid just consuming the nicotine and not doing the housework?

Work for twenty minutes, draw liberally from a vape device while appreciating the work you've completed, then go back to work. The timing can be adjusted, I found I was using a lot less than before I started this project. I think vaping/smoking will give better results than patches because it's overwhelming and direct instead of a subtle feeling, but it might be different for non-smokers like Gwern in the linked article. I don't know anything about the gum so can't compare.

I've not had any temptation to cheat, I included exercise as a reinforced behavior so I'm only 90 seconds away from a reward if a craving is intense (that's for one set, then I'll reward myself and go back to lifting so the activity surrounds the enforcement behavior). All this work is easy enough I'd be really disappointed in myself for cheating, and since starting I've been able to quiet my mind and focus on my tasks when before I could only clean for a few minutes before getting distracted.

Now that my place is clean I've broadened the reinforced behaviors to include other things I'd like to address in my life (omitted for redundancy and to avoid personal info) and it's been very successful. It's important for me to find new tasks to reinforce so I continue having a reason to reward myself.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats