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practical_romantic  2yr ago (text post)   3452 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for October 21, 2022

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What’s the Greatest Rock and Roll Song of All Time

I was looking up the meaning the lyrics of Rosalita by Bruce Springsteen earlier in the week, trying to figure out if there was a particular slang meaning to the lines “Windows are for cheaters, chimneys for the poor, closets are for hangars, winners use the door.” What I came across was this thorough analysis arguing that Rosalita is possibly the single greatest rock performance of all time. Which got me thinking, was it? I think the greatest rock and roll song of all time would have to: be recognizably Rock and Roll to the majority of Rock audiences throughout time, I want something that Wolfman Jack would love while still having pushed and developed the genre further, so however much I love Ulver’s Nattens Madrigal it's out. From a great rock and roll band as an aspect of "career achievement" so one hit wonders are out. Can't be too obscure, the all time GOAT should be recognized by mass audiences, so anything by the Queers is out. A great upbeat car-radio song, so ballads and such are out. Covering classic rock and roll themes of teenage love and freedom and joy, so something too political like Eve of Destruction or too weird like Iron Man is out.

What are your nominations? I’ve never been a huge Stones or Zeppelin fan, so I didn’t pick one from those, but I still feel like it’s incomplete without at least a nomination for each. Mine below:

Rosalita Bruce Springsteen

Pro: Great lyrics with classic rock and roll themes of teenage freedom and cars and love affairs, driving galloping beat and energy, fits into the peak rock and roll moment when it had fully risen to cultural dominance but before splitting too heavily into subcultures (punk, metal, alt, etc) and before Thriller really split off pop as a distinct genre, just a little long with multiple excellent bridges without hitting absurd In A Gatta Da Vida lengths. I feel like this song could have opened for Chuck Berry in 1955, and for Van Halen in 1990, and rocked both crowds across thirty five years, Legendary concert piece by a classic concert band.

Con: Relies on the sax for most of the power of the instrumentals and guitar + sax is an evolutionary dead end, Bruce just generally doesn’t feel musically as influential as others on the nominations list like Dylan or Hendrix outside of New Jersey.

Like a Rolling Stone Bob Dylan

Pro: Nobel Prize winner Dylan is certified the greatest lyricist in rock history, covered by a thousand bands for the pure poetry and because it can be taken in a million directions, lines that are both so specific and so universal, The Band is great on this one.

Con: Dylan is more folk than rock and his electric era wasn’t really that long, too slow and not heavy enough, in the last forty years almost no one has ever danced or gotten laid to this which pulls it away from core rock styles.

Johny B Goode Chuck Berry

Pro: Berry deserves more credit than any other individual for putting Rock and Roll together from spare parts and the creator deserves credit for the creation, this was Berry’s most legendary song even though he stole the idea from a concert played by his cousin Marvin, it’s been covered by everyone from Judas Priest to John Lennon because they all thought it was that important.

Con: It’s only halfway there it’s the seed not the tree, the quality of the talent performance and composition just doesn’t hold up to others on the list.

You Shook Me All Night Long AC/DC

Pro: Dave Barry described the opening as the greatest couplet in the English language “She was a fast machine, she kept her motor clean;” probably the heaviest rock can be pushed before splitting away from something Chuck Berry’s crowd would recognize at all, and the overall composition is just tight and powerful and perfect.

Con: Cock rock can feel kind of lame to me at times betwixt and between heavy metal and pop music, pretty simplistic and straightforward relative to the artistry in the musicianship of Rosalita or the lyrics of Like a Rolling Stone, kind of advertisement rock at this point.

Imagine John Lennon

Pro: If you thought this was a serious nominee, for even a second, please let me know in the comments so I can ignore everything that you ever post here in the future.

Purple Haze Jimi Hendrix Experience

Pro: Rock is first and foremost guitar music and Jimi was the greatest guitarist of all time, legendary associations of Woodstock, Jimi had the courtesy to stay forever 27 and so never gets the later cringe associations of working with Yoko or Barack Obama or releasing an ersatz Christmas album {though lowkey I love that Dylan album}, everything heavier than the Doors owes Jimi a debt.

Con: Jimi doesn’t have the volume of material to deserve the “career achievement” aspect of the award, short and simplistic, about drugs.

Raw Power Iggy Pop and the Stooges

Pro: Proto-punk par excellence, what differentiates rock from what came before and after is being hard and loud and this is as loud and hard as rock and roll gets, as authentic as punk ever got before the authenticity had to be disputed for those who saw the stooges, covered with bruises. Also, watch the Amazon Documentary it’s great.

Con: the stooges really aren’t very good at music, with Iggy saying he learned most of his composition from Captain Kangaroo.

I'm really kinda thinking Rosalita takes it.

Personally, I believe the greatest rock song ever performed is Like a Bat out of Hell.

I also recognize that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Still, that album sold over 14 million units in the US alone, so I think some people out there might agree with me!

Out of the options you listed, I think Johnny B. Goode is the best contender.

Bat out of Hell is one of the greatest albums of all time. Bat out of Hell, Took the Words Right out of my Mouth, Paradise by the Dashboard Light, All Revved Up With No Place To Go, Two out of Three Ain't Bad. All bangers. I strongly considered either Bat out of Hell or Took the Words Right out of my Mouth, but I feel like the GSOAT has to come from an influential singer/group/composer, and Meatloaf really fell off after the first album.

Just have to add this one: perhaps the true spirit of rock, in the end, is best represented by this Finnish classic: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yGCviZAdxeY (Don't bother to try to make sense of the lyrics, they literally consist of basically every English phrase the band could think of at this point thrown together to approximate a rock lyric.)

I love it. Thank you so much for exposing me to this.

I’ve got a couple of suggestions to throw into the mix.

Layla - Derek and the Dominos

Clapton’s signature song. Killer intro and compelling throughput. The story and context behind the song is also interesting.

The Boys Are Back In Town - Thin Lizzy

I love the false menace, Phil Lynott is trying to sound tough but clearly is also having great fun. A great singalong anthem that would equally be at home at a metal concert or at a boozy family party.

It probably is Free Bird though..

Free Bird - Lynyrd Skynyrd

I once had a cheap car with a busted CD player that had two settings: free bird and off.

Sympathy for the Devil would be my choice. I don't have any real argument for it, I just love it. Besides, something from the Stones has to be included on any list.

Sympathy for the Devil would be a good illustration of what was discussed below: for someone with a similar contextual understanding to me to what "rock" sounds like, Sympathy for the Devil just isn't hard enough to really be a contestant. I also agree that if there's a Stones pick, Gimme Shelter is probably the best choice, it just has that little bit more of drive and energy to it to be there.

As much as I love Gimme shelter (which is quite a bit) the gospel vocals detract from its rock n roll ness imo, making it more rock than rock n roll. Also television taught me soldiers only had access to two songs during the Vietnam war - Gimme Shelter and Fortunate Son, and I have a hard time disassociating it from helicopter shots of rice fields.

Sympathy for the devil is definitely my favourite Stones song too (for fun here's the neptunes remix, which is the closest anyone has come to covering it well), but if it's not rockin' enough, how about Paint it black or Start me up?

I would like to have included links to all of those songs, but typing out the bbcode is a pain in the ass, we really need a URL button.

For Hendrix, I'd have picked All Along the Watchtower over Purple Haze. I think it's a better example of the musical stylings. Picking a cover isn't going to help with the career criterion, but think of it this way--all the benefits of Dylan, but with firmer credentials for rock and roll.

I feel like Queen should have a presence on this list, even if they don't win. Crazy Little Thing or, God help us, Fat Bottomed Girls?

Out of the other responses, Sharp Dressed Man kicks ass.

For some reason it made me think of Aerosmith's Life in the Fast Lane. Great riff, great instrumentation, obvious lyrical relevance. Is having a "Rock and Roll"ercoaster themed after you a pro or a corporate con?

Deep Purple's Smoke on the Water wins points for riff, for universality, and for lyrical content about rock and roll recording. It's clearly blues-derived to stay in touch with the earlier rockers. Bonus for the band's influence; penalty for the weirdness of everything else in their discography. Much as I love Blackmore, you can't go two steps without tripping (ha!) over some Bach.

For Hendrix, I'd have picked All Along the Watchtower over Purple Haze. I think it's a better example of the musical stylings. Picking a cover isn't going to help with the career criterion, but think of it this way--all the benefits of Dylan, but with firmer credentials for rock and roll.

That's a really good one. Rock and Roll's greatest guitarist plays Rock and Roll's greatest lyricist's material, in a way it's the perfect career criterion. The one who burned out playing the one who faded away.

I was left thinking - what would be the latest song that one could propose as a contender without it feeling immediately facile? Is Seven Nation Army too gimmicky? Is Last Nite by Strokes recognizable enough outside of a certain age bracket/cultural context?

The post-punk revival was rock's last breath. 7NA is big enough that random people know the riff, and The Hardest Button to Button got a great treatment on The Simpsons. The other three Big Thes have faded away, though, and post-2007 landfill indie is for people who want to listen to more stuff that reminds them of their youth, the modern equivalent of AOR.

IMHO, Smells Like Teen Spirit is the last one. That's the latest point at which Rock existed as a unified fandom, and every Rock fan tuned into or at least recognized the same band as great, more or less. After that, the splintering of Rock and its loss of dominance in popular music makes the impact of the songs just not the same. It's the difference between Jazz as a vital musical force when Kind of Blue came out, and Jazz as something I watch with a bunch of old people in a symphony hall when great albums come out today. Musically, the latter may be 'just as good' but it's not the same historical force at work.

I'm not a big Nirvana fan, I find them musically facile and boring, but that's just the way it is, Kurt Cobain was the last true rockstar. Also one of the weirdest conspiracy takes I ever heard: Cobain was killed by the CIA, along with Easy-E, to try to stop their youth movement from taking over the west coast. Bonkers.

I would guess grunge is too hard for the OP's definition.

If it isn't, some other good picks might include Black Hole Sun (Soundgarden) and Rooster (Alice in Chains).

Probably fails the BttF audience test. But I'd still use Cobain's suicide as the death of mainstream rock music in straight line descent from Howlin' Wolf and friends.

I would peg G'n'R as the last really big classic rock band to break, and Nirvana etc. as another (though obviously related) thing.

We Will Rock You has to at least be on the list, for sheer "absolutely everybody has heard this song" alone.

It is impossible to set that beat in a communal setting and not have people 1. join in 2. get pumped.

On the other hand, the opening is the strongest part.

Same with Crazy Train, really.

It's either Springsteen or Dylan. I wish I could find the effort to write more, but it's been a long week and like on a typical Friday I just want to take a shower and chill. But I think Like A Rolling Stone has forever gotten the nomination from the press because of how hard it sends the I-IV-V chorus, which is a direct throwback to foundational 50's tracks like Louie Louie and La Bamba, and it's anchoring the hit track of Dylan's musical amphetamine meltdown late 60's albums. Dylan on Hwy 61/B.O.B., and Springsteen on Born to Run, are like a lush pool at the end of roots rock, with professional bands and capable lyricists. So the best track I think would have to be a personal pick from one of those, I personally would go with Thunder Road. But really I'd go with Louie Louie by the sonics.

I think an obvious choice would be Don't Stop Believin', or maybe Sweet Child of Mine. They pretty easily exemplify the peak form of rock and roll: strong melodic vocals, a driving backbeat, rhythm and harmony guitars, and soaring guitar leads.

My immediate thought on reading this was:

Kansas - Carry on My Wayward Son

But while looking at the video I noticed the #rock tag.

https://youtube.com/hashtag/rock

AC/DC is maybe the most listened to rock song with "Thunderstruck"

and when I think of rock music I really think more of AC/DC then I do of Bruce Springsteen. I might be a younger generation than you, but Rosalita really sounds more like jazz to me than rock and roll. And it just has all the wrong feelings. When I think of a rock song that has all the right "feelings" I got to the song that is a partial parody of rock, but also nails the feelings. The writers of the song have won Emmys, Grammys, and Annies. The ultimate: Trey Parker and Matt Stone - America Fuck Yeah

Yeah, like I sort of indicated below the sound that comes to my mind when thinking 'rock' is Iron Maiden, but it might be the most correct to say it would be somewhere between Maiden and AC/DC. I remember that much of classic 60s/70s rock, when I heard it as a youngin, got me reacting like 'wait, this is supposed to be rock?'

Thunderstruck is a great choice, not only for music but meme potential (ie. randomly shouting THUNDER! at random intervals).

Crazy Train or Rainbow in the Dark, or are these too far into metal territory?

I'll throw a couple of picks to represent Zeppelin and the Stones:

Led Zeppelin - Rock And Roll. The name is maybe a bit on the nose, and it's not necessarily my favorite song by them, but the guitar riff for this song is just so much fun. It's hard to resist jamming out to this song. There's a huge variety of Led Zeppelin though, and it's hard to pick just one. If I were going to pick my personal favorite it would probably be Babe I'm Gonna Leave You.

Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter. Again, this band has an absurdly large roster of great songs and it's hard to pick just one. But this song to me is the quintessential Rolling Stones song. The lead guitar at the beginning just slaps, and the vocal work really is something imo. You could pick a lot of other songs though.

Where do you draw the line between rock and roll and rock? Like, I would place the Beatles right at the drainage divide, with everyone else in the British Invasion worth mentioning being rock musicians.

If you follow the kitchen sink rules of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, then I nominate "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" by James Brown and "Lose Yourself" by Eminem.

Where do you draw the line between rock and roll and rock?

I would define rock and roll in its pure form by that clip from Back to the Future, when Michael J. Fox does the guitar solo and the 50s teens who were dancing are just left going wtf even is that. Stuff past that gets into your heavy metal, your hardcore punk, etc. That's the test I picture in my head. You can play a later rock and roll song to an earlier audience, and that audience would recognize it as rock and roll music.

To me, almost everything by The Beatles would play just fine at a Chuck Berry joint, same with the Stones, and most of Led Zeppelin or the Who as well. Maybe the audience wouldn't love it but they'd recognize it as the same kind of music they like. For me the line comes somewhere around like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest on the metal side, and then bands like Black Flag and the Dead Kennedys on the punk side. That's where I'd imagine the music/content reaches the point where your hypothetical 50s crowd coming out to hear Roll Over Beethoven gets confused.

Lose Yourself is an interesting one, I feel like I can't take it seriously because it's a movie song.

Well, War Pigs came out in 1970 and wouldn't fly with the rock'n'roll crowd. As did Child in Time (I love the stone faces of the audience). So, on one hand, I think the birth of hard rock and metal and their emergence at the genres of rock should disqualify post-Woodstock rock'n'roll songs from being considered the best. But on the other hand, would I really disqualify the songs by 3 Inches of Blood from being on a "best of heavy metal" list just because they were written after it became a niche genre?

My instinctive choice would have been Run To The Hills by Iron Maiden, but it might not fit your rules (Maiden is too metal already, arguably, though I don’t personally see it that way, and subject matter might even be considered woke today), so I’ll nominate one I think would qualify by the criteria: Sharp Dressed Man by ZZ Top.

If we're going to pick a ZZ Top song, I think it has to be La Grange. One of the greatest riffs of any song, ever.

Sharp Dressed Man by ZZ Top.

One of the greatest riffs of all time. Excellent pick.

IMHO, any AD/DC recommendation has to come from the Bon Scott era. And if I had to pick a "Greatest Rock & Roll Song" from that era, I need to pick It's a Long Way to the Top. Had they quite reached the full maturity they would under Bon Scott? Not quite. But it's an ode to the Rock & Roll lifestyle like few others.

Also, Bon Scott was just a superior lyricist.

That's a good pick, consider it swapped.

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