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PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   32965 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 5, 2024

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I never used to carry a gun here, but started recently.

From a practical perspective, what's the best self-defense weapon?

Lately I've been thinking it's pepper spray. The problem with a gun is that even if it is "successfully" used to stop a would-be assailant you could be facing criminal charges. It also seems harder to use then pepper spray.

But where on one's person do you even carry a gun (or pepper spray)? Surely not in your pockets, and digging through a bag to find a weapon seems difficult. I'm not sure you need to carry a weapon anyway. I live in Seattle, the land of the drug zombie, and even though people do occasionally get attacked by schizos, the odds are pretty small. As a man, I tend not to be hassled either. So I see no need to carry a weapon.

Sorry to pick out one small line from your post...

I mentioned it in the last thread, but having a large protective dog breed with you will generally make you safer around anyone with a shred of rationality left in their brain.

Dogs of course aren't practical for all use cases. But I feel like they fill the most needed gap for some of these cities.

  1. Dogs are a more sympathetic victim. I don't know why but someone who assaults and nearly beats another person to death can get all sorts of excuses made for them, but that same person beats up a dog and everyone agrees they are scum.
  2. Dogs are more likely to injure someone in a fight. A gang of ten people can safely beat someone up without any of them getting hurt. With a dog though at least one of them is likely gonna get bit.
  3. Dogs have more plausible deniability for violence than all other weapons. You can still get in trouble, especially if you are irresponsible and get some kid bitten. But we treat dogs as having some degree of agency, so they will shoulder some of the blame for any incident.

I find it weird that I keep talking up owning a dog. I don't actually own one, and don't want to.

Well, maybe because many people believe dogs don’t belong in most places and get annoyed when people decide their precious little doggie should go to what were once people only locations.

As I said they don't fit in some circumstances. But outside on the street is fine and that is also a place with a lot of crime. Buildings that are secure enough to prevent a dog from entering are also secure enough to prevent obvious trouble people from entering.

A gun. Assuming you don't dress in skin tight clothing and/or in a hot climate, it's not that hard to conceal a small pistol.

The most common self defense scenario is that zero shots are fired. Surveys put it as high as 95% of DGUs involve merely brandishing the gun to scare off an assailant. (Of course in certain circumstances that could also lead to charges or social opprobrium) The advantage of a firearm is that you'll never find you're at the wrong point on the escalation hierarchy. I mean you don't want to find yourself at the ok corral with an lcp, but a knife or pepper spray become useless if they pull a gun.

Pepper spray keychains are also widely available. Practice with it if you're going to carry it. My wife used to carry pepper spray in her purse, then tried it to see if it worked, INDOORS FOR SOME REASON, and called me crying because it got in her face after hitting the wall.

In general don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I only carry rarely, when I feel I need to to. If I had to carry every day or never, I'd pick never. But I pop it in a jacket pocket when I'm going somewhere I might need it.

I'd like to correct your intuition and say that you're going to face charges for pepper spray as well.

Who's going to report a defensive pepper spraying? Like blast the ne'er do well in the face and get out of there. He doesn't think they're on his side so he won't call the cops.

We live in a world where everything is potentially videotaped and reported. The place you are most likely to get randomly assaulted is outside a business. They have cameras on the doors, in the store, and in the parking lot. If, for example, you are approached in the parking lot by a person menacing you and pepper spray them then leave, thats on video. His flailing and screeching is on video. Some progressive do gooder will start filming you if you aren't quick, and even if you are they will film him and call for an ambulance for him. Then the auto reporter auto reports that he got pepper sprayed.

If you are thinking carrying pepper spray is a good idea, you live in a place where the system is set up against a person carrying pepper spray is a good idea. It might still be a good idea, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 and all, but you still have to be aware you aren't the favored class here.

Yeah but who's going to report it? Do gooders are going to shut up about it awkwardly, your assailant won't report it, the business owner won't either. Most pepper spray victims probably don't seek medical attention and the police rarely follow up on it anyways; they've got their hands full dealing with serious injuries.

I think there are many people who will report it. Why would the "do gooders" shut up? They sympathize with the bums.

Probably not murder charges though.

Why would I accept a stranger's intuition over my own?

Because people get assault and malicious wounding charges for pepper spray.

It is a lot lower bar than people think it is.

From a practical perspective, what's the best self-defense weapon?

From a practical perspective, it depends on the context. Priority one is always going to be avoiding conflict rather than dealing with it when it comes. The order of operations for that are:

  1. Don't go to dangerous places. Seriously, these are usually pretty obvious.
  2. Be aware of your surroundings.
  3. In the event that there is potential for conflict, be ready to deescalate or flee as needed. Both are superior to engaging in a conflict if they are realistic options.

In service of these the advice from @Lizzardspawn below is quite good! Being fit will tend to make you a less appealing target and allow you to flee from most potential conflicts.

If you're thinking about situations where outright preventing conflict is not feasible (e.g. home invasion), the correct weapon is an appropriately suited firearm. The appropriate firearm depends on local risks from overpenetration and the geometry of your property. As a broad generality, you can't go too far wrong with whatever your ergonomically preferred 9mm pistol with hollow-point rounds is. If you have the budget and inclination, my own preference would be a short-barreled, suppressed AR-15 chambered in 300 BLK with subsonic rounds, but this probably not realistic for most people.

From a practical perspective, what's the best self-defense weapon?

Best is living in Singapore. Second best - pair of good running shoes and being fit. Third is complicated and depends on local rules.

Yeah I’m very pro-second amendment, but practically speaking if you’re in any situation where you have to pull out a gun you’re already half-screwed.

The best self defense weapon, in jurisdictions where it is legal, is an indifferently-concealed full sized handgun. I carry a 1911 and print away. Never gonna need it when you have it, might if you don't.

Sorry, what do you mean by "printing"? Having the imprint of the weapon/holster visible through your clothes?

Yes.

If you actually care about printing (and comfort!) I'd recommend the Sig P365. Best balance between size and ammo capacity. I appendix carry and the only time it gets uncomfortable is when I bend down.

The printing is the point- ne'er do wells know I have a gun on me without open carrying.

I also carry a sig P365 and recommend it.

The best self-defense weapons is one you will actually carry and are trained to use.

A Kubotan is high on the list because it can be attached as a keychain and is easy enough to deploy with a bit of practice. No excuses not to have it with you almost anywhere.

The primary consideration in my mind is also whether it is suitable for multiple attackers, and either allows you to deter a whole group of attackers at once or inflict enough damage quickly enough that you can escape.

Pepper spray kind of works here but I really, really dislike that it is easily defeated by goggles, or just covering your eyes.

A compact handgun still reigns supreme, to me. Not too big a fan of 'subcompact' or 'micro' styles as they start to trade off too much ammo capacity, accuracy, and stopping powah. Anything is better than nothing, though.

And perhaps above all, having a buddy or two who know how to handle themselves trumps all. Makes you less of a target to start, massively multiplies the force you can bring to bear, and can patch you up or drive you to a hospital if you do get injured.

Surely not in your pockets

Some pistols are small enough to fit in a pocket.

But where on one's person do you even carry a gun (or pepper spray)? Surely not in your pockets, and digging through a bag to find a weapon seems difficult.

I use the urban carry holster. Like everybody else, I was put off from getting one after seeing this gif, but I finally caved because the ankle holsters I kept buying would only last a couple of months before the Velcro became unusable. It's wonderful.

+1 to urban carry holsters. I love mine and have convinced 2 other family members to buy one.

A flashlight and pepper spray. A flashlight can temporarily blind an individual at night, be used as a blunt weapon, and be brandished without issue unlike a bat, a baton, brass knuckles, a gun, or a knife. Pepper spray can temporarily incapacitate, and, more or less, be brandished without issue. Both can be concealed in a hand, or clipped to a belt. Less likely to escalate a non-fatal situation into a fatal one. Less likely to find yourself in a civil and/or criminal case.

It doesn't hurt to have an old bricked phone, decoy keys, and/or a decoy wallet to distract a thief. And, ultimately, it's best to avoid dangerous areas.

You can have a gun, but you really need to be aware of all the legal and physical risks you could encounter, and regularly train with it.

Just carry a gun. I use an iwb holster in summer and owb in winter. Honestly, I've used a hard pocket holster in a jacket pocket, works fine.

Lighting is another issue. If I'd needed to shoot, I would have had to reposition my flashlight grip at the same time as coming up from one-handed low ready. Which I know how to do, but not instinctively enough to pull my light in the correct grip in the first place.
Something to train on.

Side note, thanks to this I found out my immigrant boss also carries. Some of these guys become more American than Americans.

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