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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   1616 thread views

Wellness Wednesday for January 22, 2025

The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:

  • Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.

  • Updates to let us know how you are doing. This provides valuable feedback on past advice / encouragement and will hopefully make people feel a little more motivated to follow through. If you want to be reminded to post your update, see the post titled 'update reminders', below.

  • Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.

  • Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).

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Can anyone steelman as to how stoicism is a sweaty philosophy?

(By "sweaty" I mean sudorific; taking exorbitant willful control which may be dubious/ unsincere. Related meme).

I made an attempt: Those who are the most drawn to stoicism are those who need it the most, and therefore those who are the least stoic. Those who are the most into stoicism will be adopting it as a psychological defense mechanism, similarly to how "tough guys" and "nice guys" do.

Those who are actually stoic will trivially be stoic as well. So I think the correlation has a u-shape. The most and the least stoic people might call themselves "stoic", while those in the middle distance themselves. Quite a lot of extremes are easily confused for the opposite extreme (an example I like is autistic people with no social skills sometimes coming across as chads)

In the tedious but ongoing marathon that is the road to curing my dysthymia, I’m coming to the end of my menstrual cycle, which will make it fourth months in a row. I’m already in record territory when the third one happened, but this fourth one is, quite frankly, amazing. The status quo has been one-to-two cycles a year ever since I began puberty and I’d like to think I’m prepared for an infertility diagnosis in the future, but I’m a little more optimistic I’ll dodge that RNG bullet with these developments, and if I don’t have to hear such dismal news from a doctor somewhere down the line, I’ll take those silver linings.

In relation to my dysthymia, I can only assume a correlation between my treatment and one of the side effects which is supposed to be decreased stress. It feels like a two-sided blade; if decreasing my stress is a side effect of curing my mood disorder and also happens returns a natural menstrual cycle, the gulf of change implies an equally deep breadth of stress. It’s been a-given (for everyone else, lol) that stress will shorten or interrupt cycles; what are the implications if mine have been virtually eliminated most of my life? Hilariously stressful, that’s what they are. The universe has a wonderful sense of humor, but sometimes it’s confusing figuring out what the joke is. Alexa, play “Charlie’s Inferno” on repeat.

Does anyone know of any reviews or analyses of Bryan Johnson's food guide/protocol? To me a large amount of this is obviously useful (eating well, sleeping properly, exercising, etc etc) but him also selling $50 packs of blueberries and supplements infowars-style suggests me that some portion of it might be grift. I'd like to see a rating of what's useful and what's more skeptical other than from the author himself.

https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.com/pages/blueprint-protocol

Its certainly a good amount of grift and clout chasing IMO.

Many of the substances he is taking are on the cutting edge of science, as in, there are very few studies to go off of, and even fewer ones based on human models, in vivo or in vitro.

He also has/is taking supplements with opposing mechanisms of action. For instance, in the past he was taking rapamycin (sirolimus) which is an mTOR inhibitor, but was also taking creatine, which induces mTOR...

The diet, exercise and sleep are all good choices, but from there things get quite a bit murkier. I do think at some point taking too many experimental treatments is going to backfire, metformin only improving lifespan in type 2 diabetes being another. It actually blunts adaptations to exercise, which may not impact him much while he is relatively young, but may do so more as time goes on.

Bear in mind that he is only 47 years old. We will just have to wait about 30 years when he would reach the average American male lifespan and see just how much of his claims actually pan out. I remain skeptical; something's very suss about this dude from the start.

I do find it amusing that the oldest verified person indulged in the likes of dark chocolate, port wine and cigarrettes.

There’s a pretty persuasive theory that Calment was actually her daughter impersonating her, but in either case she still lived a very long life.

It seems to me obvious that each of us have a natural life expectancy that is probably decided before and during birth and possibly to some extent in early childhood. We can reduce this by poor luck or by destroying ourselves by becoming alcoholics, drug addicts, taking unnecessary risks, being exposed to toxic substances, but we can’t increase it.

If your destiny is to die at 65 or 70 for genetic reasons there’s probably nothing you can do. If your destiny is to die at 103 then all you need to do is have some luck (not die in a war, accident, get exposed to a mountain of asbestos etc) and practice the most basic self care - like not getting ridiculously obese - and you will meet that expectancy.

Bryan Johnson's food guide/protocol?

it is found here: https://protocol.bryanjohnson.com/Step-1-Step-2-Step-3

He says he's a vegan. There is some truth to this as an effective weight loss diet. Cultures and societies that primarily subsist on starches tend to be thin. Plant based foods have lower calorie density, save for nuts. When I lost weight, I found myself adhering to mostly a non-meat diet. Animal products limited to fish and some chicken.

He is running a massive, multivariate, and esoteric experiment with an N of 1. Its not possible to say what's useful other than stuff we knew beforehand from actual studies: eat well, exercise, sleep well.

That's quite true, and the dynamics of different body systems and what we eat/how we act is obviously not a solved system, but I would be happy with individual reviews of his practices of diet and supplements even if they amount to "X: 95% agreed by all very good and helpful, Y: 70% probably good but maybe is just targeting biomarkers and not getting perceived health benefits, Z: 40%, lacking evidence of claim, cutting edge practice by Mr Johnson"

My point is that by definition 100% of his unique claims lack conclusive evidence. Individual reviews will be anecdotal in an area where people are known to fool themselves. That said, I understand the desire for individual reviews. His ideas are interesting, and may help. But there are myriad things we known for sure will help. Most people don't do them.

I've finally had some success with my latest attempt at a keto diet (I've been on it maybe 4 times over my lifetime), largely due to properly using high quality electrolytes to overcome fatigue, extending the intermittent fasting period (thanks to Dr Boz), and maxxing leafy green vegetables within the carb limit. I've dropped 6kg in 3 weeks, but I expect that rate to slow down.

Does anyone have keto tips or tweaks that managed to break periods of stagnation or otherwise make good progress? I'm staying away from alcohol this time.

Lots of low net carb, high fiber veggies. It did a good job of keeping me regular, which was an issue at times on the diet. Saturated fat>>Monounsaturated fat>>polyunsaturated fat, especially when it comes to ketone production. Its pretty much the opposite advice you'd hear on any other diet, but I truly felt better eating 1/2 to 2/3 pounds of bacon plus broccoli than things like chicken thighs or lean beef cuts. The fattier the better.

I also ended up transitioning to a 5 on 2 off cyclical keto diet for a couple years. Felt great for the majority of time and was the lowest weight I had been in 15 years. Unfortunately, over time I ended up undereating due to lack of hunger and started to not feel well, ending the experiment.

I did gain a lot of the weight I lost over the following year.

Unfortunately, over time I ended up undereating due to lack of hunger and started to not feel well, ending the experiment.

Yes, I've been there before too. Like your advice I'm really trying to maximise healthy vegetables within the guidelines (spinach, broccoli, green beans (for cellulose). Daily multivitamins, extra potassium through 'light salt' etc. I've realised I need to stay away from diet soda which just feels like a micronutrient drain after the fact.

I did gain a lot of the weight I lost over the following year.

And this is the real crux. How to keep it off? I put most of it on during covid so I'm hoping I will re-engage with my more active pre-covid lifestyle. I'll also make an effort to work on reducing sugar intake and portion sizes. But many people have been where I'm going without success..

Yes, I've been there before too. Like your advice I'm really trying to maximise healthy vegetables within the guidelines (spinach, broccoli, green beans (for cellulose). Daily multivitamins, extra potassium through 'light salt' etc. I've realised I need to stay away from diet soda which just feels like a micronutrient drain after the fact. That is a good call, as certain micronutrients are generally absent on a ketogenic diet. Especially flavonoids which seem to activate a lot of antioxidant and cell protecting mechanisms like NRF2, which is part of the phase II detoxification pathway. Meat products don't have those compounds. One supplement that I have had good effects from is Cyandin-3-Glucoside (C3G), which actually keeps/restores glucose and lipid metabolism It also is an MAO-B inhibitor, so it provides a light amount of stimulation due to inhibiting the rate of breakdown of dopamine.

I completely agree on the soda. I feel pretty poor drinking it, especially if it is before any sort of workout.

And this is the real crux. How to keep it off? I put most of it on during covid so I'm hoping I will re-engage with my more active pre-covid lifestyle. I'll also make an effort to work on reducing sugar intake and portion sizes. But many people have been where I'm going without success..

For me, physical activity is key. When not on keto, I have difficulty with portion size and being active offsets this by a great extent. The healthiest I have been since ending the cyclical keto diet was this past fall, when I trained for a bike race. If you have friends or family that share similar goals, picking a race or just a weekly habit with them can help, at least it has for me. Over time, if I am not held accountable, I let the discipline slip a bit.

This guy advocates very little protein or carbs, and very saturated fat (cream, in his case).

This guy is also a dumbass who claims that caloric reduction doesn't work because he tried a 1000 kcal diet and his mood and energy levels crashed through the floor. No shit, Sherlock, that's Auschwitz levels of nutrition. Right now he's consuming 2294 kcal daily, which is around the right amount of caloric reduction for a 113kg person. I'm glad he's found a diet that keeps him happy and motivated, but it's still caloric reduction.

I think you're misunderstanding the 'caloric reduction doesn't work' thesis he promotes (and which I share). Obviously CICO is true as an accounting tautology, if you're losing weight, then your body must be consuming/expelling energy at a greater rate than it is consuming it.

But CICO as a description of weight loss is very different from CICO as an actionable weight loss strategy. Simply eating fewer calories on a standard diet doesn't actually work. The weight always comes back because obesity is fundamentally a problem of a broken lipostat. This is the consensus among obesity researchers because obviously the entire world didn't just decide to start eating more in the 1970s for no reason and then get obese. As for what caused the broken lipostat? Gary Taubes think it's hyper-palatable food, I personally think it's vegetable oil, or rather an excess of linoleic acid that vegetable oils provide, far beyond what our biology requires.

The ExFatLoss diet (and high carb, low protein, low fat diets like the potato diet) are attempts to fix the lipostat by resaturating the body's fat stores. I recommended this one because CertainlyWorse was trying keto, and I think if keto is going to work then minimising polyunsaturated fats is the key part.

I simply think hyperpalatable food makes you overeat. I've eliminated most hyperpalatable foods from my diet and can now quite reliably hit my maintenance calories without feeling hungry.

Simply eating fewer calories on a standard diet doesn't actually work.

This is not true. In fact, you admit as much in the silence between this period and the next sentence, because presumably something happened during this silence.

The weight always comes back because obesity is fundamentally a problem of a broken lipostat.

This does not follow. There is a missing intermediate step.

This is not true. In fact, you admit as much in the silence between this period and the next sentence, because presumably something happened during this silence.

Be charitable. You know what I meant. Appetite goes up, metabolic rate goes down, and then yes, people either eat more food and regain the weight, or their metabolism slows down so much that it doesn't make a difference how little they eat, they still regain the weight.

Simply white-knuckling your way to thinness doesn't work for 95% of people because the body fights back. People don't decide to get obese by choosing to eat more calories, telling them to simply choose to not be obese by eating less calories doesn't work. To recommend a strategy which will fail almost everyone who tries is cruel, particularly if it involves judging them for lack of willpower afterwards.

By contrast, ExFatLoss describes his weight loss through his version of keto as easy, compared to calorie controlled diets that he had tried before. Something else is clearly going on. Much better to try and work out what it is than just sneering at the fatties.

Be charitable. You know what I meant. Appetite goes up, metabolic rate goes down, and then yes, people either eat more food and regain the weight, or their metabolism slows down so much that it doesn't make a difference how little they eat, they still regain the weight.

Yup. And where this plateau occurs controlling for height and sex is determined by genes. Some ppl have such crappy metabolism genes they are still fat cutting to 1500kcal/day and cannot lose more. many such cases. ironically, being a bigger glutton makes wight loss and leanness easier. A guy who maintains at 250 lbs eating 5kcal/day will find weight loss easier than the same guy at same height and weight who eats 3kcal/day.

Some ppl have such crappy metabolism genes they are still fat cutting to 1500kcal/day and cannot lose more.

Any specific examples?

https://x.com/Ed_Realist/status/1837975714622296202?

There is enormous individual variably of metabolism, about as much as IQ, controlling for height,.

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people either eat more food and regain the weight

Ah, so there is an intermediate bit that lives in the silence.

metabolism slows down so much that it doesn't make a difference how little they eat

This is not true. We know, from science, how this works.

easy

I didn't hear any claims from you about things being easy or not; that's pretty subjective and hard to measure with science. You made factual claims that are scientifically false.

Yeah, the problem with that guy is that he is fat. Maybe his diets work for a very fat person with extreme insulin resistance, but I'd rather follow the advice of someone whose body looks like I'd want mine to be.

what would that be? A fitness model? A lot of those ppl either have superior genetics, take stims and steroids, or do tons of cardio. it's the same 'cut calories' advice seen everywhere else

Just a normal dude with a good body is fine by me. But I'm not taking diet advice from a fat man.

The best diet advice comes not from a fat man, but from a man that used to be fat.

This.

Listening to my in-laws talk, you'd think they're experts on nutrition and have nothing else on their minds. But just look at them.

The number of conversations I have had with people that have tried every diet under the sun and firmly believe they have arrived at a deep understanding of nutrition despite the obvious failure of their diets boggles my mind. People will tell me, to my face, that carbs make you fat. I can observe that I am, in fact, not at all fat and eat rice and noodles on a regular basis. This has zero impact on their belief that carbs make you fat.

I've dropped 6kg in 3 weeks, but I expect that rate to slow down.

probably lot of this is water

Does anyone have keto tips or tweaks that managed to break periods of stagnation or otherwise make good progress?

fewer calories. there is nothing really else that works . even cardio will be offset due to metabolic adaption effects. Or up protein due to higher thermic effects

Fewer calories also runs into metabolic adaptation problems. If you eat less energy your body will adjust such that you burn less (and feel awful). Or, if that doesn't happen and you manage to lose weight without crashing vitality, your body will sneakily make tiny adjustments such that as soon as you're not paying attention your weight will start drifting back up to what it used to be.

The only way I've ever found out of this hole is building muscle. Idk why it works but it does for me. I can be fat or I can be ripped; skinny was never an option.

Yeah this is why dieting is hard, why most people who diet regain it, etc.

I'm trying to keep cardio to a reasonable degree with 1 hour sessions of alternating walking and jogging, with a couple of weights sessions per week (barbell, but nothing crazy).

I'm currently on OMAD (One Meal A Day) to exploit the hunger suppressant effects of keto, and I'll try to maintain this. Dr Boz says the next step is fasting on alternate days, but I'm happy at the current rate and want to keep things sustainable as well as get micronutrient intake.

Mission Zero brand tortillas are very good and only have 25 calories each with zero net carbs I think.

I found something similar locally. I'm a bit worried that even with low/zero net carbs that they'll somehow throw out my ketosis, but I can try one at least.

I'm considering whether to try semaglutide. I live in Switzerland; I'm sure I won't get a prescription. However, a relative who takes it is visiting and can get me some. I'm hoping for Rybelsus; the pill form.

I've struggled with eating since I was about 9. The culture at home when it came to food was not great; I would describe it as somewhat competitive, kind of seeing who could eat the most the fastest. When I was 24 I finally managed to lose weight, but in the last few years it's been getting up a bit. BMI is now 25.5, not terrible, but definitely affecting my daily life. I always crave food, usually sweet food, and find myself snacking constantly if my willpower is down. I used to be able to keep somewhat of a lid on it by doing a lot of hiking uphill, but since the birth of my son I get almost no exercise.

I've never had any adverse reactions to medication before. Should I go for it?

I used to be able to keep somewhat of a lid on it by doing a lot of hiking uphill, but since the birth of my son I get almost no exercise.

Oh hey, I used to do the same and also had to stop when parenting eliminated free time. I also have a tendency to eat as much as possible as quickly as possible.

The solution for me was, believe it or not, to eat less. I still want to eat like I used to, but I don't. I just make a mental effort to assess how much food I need and then I eat that much and no more. If I accidentally overeat, I skip the next meal. It's unpleasant, but better than growing fat.

I'm not saying this to dunk on you, "git gud scrub". My message is more like...life sucks, don't wait for a perfect solution, just take the hit and live with the pain and do what you know you have to.

The solution for me was, believe it or not, to eat less.

Yeah that's what I'm trying to do at the moment. I've never been a very conscientious person though, and this is a major weakness. It just takes up so much daily bandwidth. Some asshole has just brought in a packet of gummibears to work, and plonked them on a shelf right next to my desk. I feel like semaglutide might help me to ignore them.

Go cold turkey. Just stop it with the sugary crap, entirely, no exceptions. Think of it as "not something that I eat". Sugar gives you cravings for more sugar. Cut the loop by not consuming sweets at all, categorically. You don't need sweets to live.

My office break room is stacked to the roof with cookies, chocolate, candy, gummi whatevers. I walk in there, see a pile of shit-that-messes-you-up, and walk past it to get at the can of unsalted peanuts, cashews and almonds I keep in there. You can snack without screwing with your appetite. See sweets as the horrible drugs, the makers-of-the-obese that they are.

I started it two months ago.

I highly recommend it. The effects are amazing. I actually feel full after eating meals where everyone else also reports they're full, instead of being ready to have 3 more servings. And while I still think about snacking sometimes, the idea of snacking is just too boring to motivate me to eat.

It's miraculous.

The most appealing effect to me is the claimed reduction in "food noise". I'm often hungry for no real reason, and getting used to hunger pangs sucks. If you try it, pair it with a resistance training program to spare muscle tissue.

hmm i don't think you're that good of a candidate. you seem to have things under control already

I spent ages 9-24 obese (100kg). I got down to 73kg, but since 2021 have slowly been gaining weight. I came back from Christmas holidays at 90kg. Every day is a struggle. I would not say I have things under control.

I've done it. At first started with semaglutide. Semaglutide is good, but has more side effects than others.

I lost about 30 pounds on semaglutide, but needed to lose another 20 to be healthy. After a year of semaglutide, I swapped to tirzepatide, and finally broke through the weight barrier and am now approaching the weight I was a decade ago.

Go for it. I buy from grey market because it's so expensive in the United States, though sites come and go and it can be difficult to find a new one when the old one shuts down.

I'd advocate for it. If you experience unpleasant side effects, you should be able to stop, and even then, the most common ones like bloating pass with time as your body adjusts.

The main issue is that you need to be on it for the longterm or nigh indefinitely to keep off the weight. I'm not sure if your relative will be able to share their supply with you for that long, but I presume there must be online pharmacies or prescription mills that might help (no judgment involved, I think that's a useful service when there's too much red tape around).

I'd give it a go. Research the side effects, talk to your relative about it and stop if you have a bad reaction. I'd say try to at least get some exercise in, but child rearing can be difficult.

Have you tried replacing sugary food with food with artificial sweeteners? An uphill treadmill is another thing you can try, I would walk around a lot when my son had colics.

too bad no one can invent a zero calorie solid food non-vegetable . low calorie energy drinks work for me ymmv

Like, something that's 100% dietary fiber, water and flavorings?

Have you tried replacing sugary food with food with artificial sweeteners

Yes, I now have a Coke Zero addiction. Sugar-free chocolate is available, but still fairly high-calorie. I don't have any really unhealthy foods available at home; there my main problem is that I just keep eating. 2nd portions, a bit more rice, whatever is available. I also grew up with very strong morals around food waste. My wife is happy to let stuff go to waste, so I'm left finishing a lot of soon-to-expire things by myself.

I've read about how Semaglutide reduces "food noise". Really, that would be heaven. I think about food way too much, and to turn off those constant cravings would be a boon.

I don't have much advice except perhaps (though this is so obvious I'm sure you've tried/considered it) try taking your child on walks with you, I see a lot of parents jogging/doing intense walks while carrying their babies in a cart, and I've even seen some structures that allow you to take them on hikes (of course, that'd depend on your proficiency level and the difficulty of the trails available to you). However:

I also grew up with very strong morals around food waste. My wife is happy to let stuff go to waste, so I'm left finishing a lot of soon-to-expire things by myself.

I just wanted to let you know that I know that feel, bro.

As for food waste, just decrease portions? Also I'm interested, does Switzerland have very strict norms regarding this type of medication, such that you don't think you'll be given a prescription?

I think it does have strict norms, and certainly my BMI wouldn't qualify.

just decrease portions

Basically what happens is, we go shopping, we buy some stuff, I buy some stuff, my wife buys some stuff. I do most of the cooking, and I remember the use-by dates of most of the food. Leftovers go into the fridge. I prioritise what I eat by what needs to go; she prioritises what she eats by what she feels like. I'm often finishing off food she bought but doesn't feel like eating; or leftovers that she swears she liked but apparently doesn't feel like eating again.

Perhaps it would be sensible to only buy enough food for the one meal, rather than having leftovers. Not sure what I would take to work for lunch though.

... would you say you're from the German part of Switzerland by chance?

I wouldn't say I'm from there, but I live there, yes.

My experience is that it doesn't reduce the desire to eat. You're still gonna have cravings, at least I do (for sweets especially). What it does do is make you get full much faster. So, it might be helpful for you given that you have issues with overeating regular food.

Do you stop eating once sated? The really fat people I've known don't necessarily eat giant portions, they just eat all the time here and there. And eating even when full is something I've heard people do. I've never had that problem.

When I say "full" I don't mean "I feel good with this amount, I'm gonna stop now". I mean full like you've just had a huge meal and you don't feel like you can physically fit more in your stomach. In the former state, I can eat more if I want (though I am trying to get better at not continuing past that point). With the latter, I'm so full that the thought of eating more makes me feel a bit sick. But instead of being there after having a huge meal, I'm there after having a medium-large size meal.

Unfortunately, my primary problem is an addiction to sweets and they are really calorie dense. So by the time I filled up on those it would still be way too much. But it definitely has an impact on my normal meal times.

Are you physically active? This is probably out of scope, but as an (amateur) runner, I've definitely hit high training volume periods where fullness and satiety decouple and I've finished meals stuffed but still hungry for calories (past a certain point, there is the effort of effectively planning an extra meal every day, but that isn't often for me). It seems plausible to me that some people get used to the wrong signals (full stomach vs. satiety), especially for hyper palatable foods, but I'm hardly an expert.

I was very physically active until my son was born 6 months ago. But fullness and satiety have been decoupled for me for as long as I can remember. My stomach feels quite full quite quickly, but I still feel strong cravings.

Congrats, man! You're probably also missing a lot of sleep. Don't beat yourself up too much: balancing it all at that stage is hard.

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Unfortunately, my primary problem is an addiction to sweets and they are really calorie dense. So by the time I filled up on those it would still be way too much. But it definitely has an impact on my normal meal times.

Sweets were the first thing I've eliminated from my regular diet. I used to finish every meal with some cookies and a piece of chocolate. Now I eat half a protein bar instead, which has 9g of protein, 4,25g of fat and 1,15g of carbs and still tastes like a candy bar to convince my brain that I've had dessert.

A lot of regular sweets taste too sweet to me now.

When I first came to Japan I'd eat a cookie or something and think "What? Where's the fucking sugar?" Now, these days, 20 something years on, I do taste the sweet in Japanese snacks (usually, still not in wagashi which in my mind should not be termed a sweet), but when I go back to the US, and have, as I did a few times ago, some peanut butter chocolate doughnut at Krispy Kreme, I feel as if I am about to go into a diabetic coma. And my friend had two! My point is you can wean yourself off really sweet stuff. I used to love it and now I have far less of a tolerance.

I have heard similar results from others. My aunt went through a phase where she halved the sugar of every recipe she made, and she said that after an initial adjustment period (which was rough) it tasted normal.

And yeah I'm not saying that I have given up because semaglutide doesn't help with my cravings. Quite the opposite - I'm trying very hard. My wife just lost her brother to alcoholism and I'm really trying to not be the next family member she loses to poor lifestyle. But for better or for worse, chemicals aren't helping so I'm trying to work on it through good old-fashioned discipline.

I guess you could try it, then. The alternative is not having food in the house.

You could try doing things like having single serve versions of the food. Instead of getting one big bag of chips, get a box of single serve chips so when you grab chips, you’d have to go back and grab another bag (you could try getting baggies and doing it yourself as well. And when you get rice or whatever, just either get single serve portions or only cook enough for your one meal.

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