domain:themotte.org
wayfarer
7m ago
I guess that separate accounts and being rich may be enough to explain this.
Still, for Twitter/Reddit tales I would assume that all are faked, unless proof exists.
quiet_NaN
7m ago
I do not think this should be a criminal matter. There is plenty of fucked-up shit which is enough to lose you custody of your kids without landing you in jail.
If the reporting is accurate, then I would expect family court to completely cut her from her kids. If that was not enough to act as an disincentive, sending her to prison would not have made a difference either.
From my reading of the text, the main problem was that she was doing this in secret. Once she was discovered, the repercussions (divorce, loss of custody) were likely swift to follow. I do not think that another society would have dealt much better with this. Even in Saudi Arabia, though there might be norms where a husband is checking his wive's phone, she might have another phone for sexting convicts.
As a wise mullah once said: "What is the cure for such disorders? Beatings."
This is bullshit. Especially as the beatings would likely be administered by the husband with no judicial oversight. I mean, sure, if the husband had beaten his wife for no reason on the general principle that she should live in terror of him, it would have been very likely that she would not have picked up her hobby of sexting convicts. But this is like suggesting that cobalt bombs are a good way to stop wildfires in California: while technically correct, the cure would be worse than the disease.
not sticking your dick in crazy.
If people only have sex with people proven sane beyond all reasonable doubt, humanity would die out in a few generations. From the reaction of the husband, it seems that he was surprised by her behavior. We do not have the context to say if he should have seen this coming, and what his other options for a spouse were when he decided to marry and have kids.
wayfarer
9m ago
In this case it seems particularly evident that the issue with drugs that trick you into not feeling hunger at your normal rate is that it becomes that much harder to operate normally without them.
well, the problem here is that people in the first place were unable to operate normally without them, so it is not making worse
Unlike OP, I think a world where people can only solve their problems by becoming addicted to complex and expensive drugs is a bad one.
I agree, but superior over one where the same problems are unsolvable
When people call something "a crutch" they refer to the specific chronic problems they cause in long term use, and in particular that you can get habituated to them in a way that stops you from taking the harder steps required to get back to walking normally.
which is quite idiotic phrase, given that crutches are not causing this at all AFAIK
Tree
9m ago
Sure, my statement is implicitly limited to the context of the modern western parenting debate.
wayfarer
11m ago
Sorry, what? You're just off the mark.
Maybe "But don't tell people that utterly destroying enemy doesn't work, because it does." would be better?
Aside from the inherent differences between adversarial processes and other dynamic processes.
trying to not overeat vs extreme marketing of hyperpalatable foods is an adversarial process
self_made_human
C'est la vie
12m ago
I am quite unusual at how much I look into where my money goes, but how you do not notice "tens of thousands of dollars" part?
I can easily see this being true. It's not unheard of for couples to have separate bank accounts. Presuming she has a career of her own, I think tens of thousands of dollars is an amount that someone can feasibly spend over 2 years.
ah, makes sense (motte breaks my sarcasm meter)
Some of that is on me. I have an uncontrollable impulse to sneak in jokes, obscure references and memes in even when Serious Posting.
wayfarer
14m ago
May I introduce you to our lord and savior, prescription stimulants?
I am risk-avoider (at least in this variety of risk) that they do not seem safe enough for me, or would be really hard to get or are unlikely to work.
But maybe it is procrastination talking.
self_made_human
C'est la vie
15m ago
You, like many others, go too far. Changing your lifestyle does actually work; it's just that many people don't do it. There are a bunch of reasons why they don't do it, and that's okay. They may be perfectly fine using a drug. Nothing wrong with that. But don't tell people that changing their lifestyle doesn't work, because it does.
I'm not denying that lifestyle changes work! If they didn't, why would doctors feel obligated to recommend them?
While doctors usually feel compelled to tell their patients to watch their weight and diet, this almost never actually works.
What I'm saying is that advising lifestyle changes rarely works. I don't have firm figures at hand, but I suspect that the number of people I've recommended such eminently sensible things like losing weight, stopping smoking and going to gym grossly outweigh (pun not intended) the number who actually did anything about it.
If there was a magic pill that did nothing else but make people go to the gym, it would be one of the most revolutionary advances in medicine of all time! It would be Nobel Prize worthy. We now, thankfully, have a pill that, if not literally magical, meets the "sufficiently advanced technology" threshold when it comes to obesity. It certainly beats even the most sage advice in terms of practical utility.
wayfarer
17m ago
But I wager it's far more likely to be true than not.
I am quite unusual at how much I look into where my money goes, but how you do not notice "tens of thousands of dollars" part?
And for Twitter/Reddit tales I would assume that all are faked, unless proof exists.
That bit was a joke.
ah, makes sense (motte breaks my sarcasm meter)
ControlsFreak
18m ago
telling them that they are stupid failures
Sorry, what? You're just off the mark. Aside from the inherent differences between adversarial processes and other dynamic processes.
IGI-111
God was a dream of good government.
20m ago
When people call something "a crutch" they refer to the specific chronic problems they cause in long term use, and in particular that you can get habituated to them in a way that stops you from taking the harder steps required to get back to walking normally.
In this case it seems particularly evident that the issue with drugs that trick you into not feeling hunger at your normal rate is that it becomes that much harder to operate normally without them.
Unlike OP, I think a world where people can only solve their problems by becoming addicted to complex and expensive drugs is a bad one.
Now of course the effects of obesity are so bad that it's probably better to take the drug if you can't muster the willpower, but it's like taking opiates for back pain. Weening yourself off of the drug should be the ultimate goal, otherwise you're just embracing a different kind of slavery.
self_made_human
C'est la vie
21m ago
(note: how likely is that story is altogether faked?)
Given that it's an anonymous account, I can hardly be sure. But I wager it's far more likely to be true than not. There are a rather significant number of women who have a thing for crooks, and manage to get into prison romances.
Even if this particular tale ends up being a tall one, I feel that the scenario merits discussion as something that could happen.
outlawing extremely rare stupidity and legalizing common stupidity seems backward
That bit was a joke. It's a reference to this meme, which I've appended. But I think that in certain contexts, physical/corporal punishment has its merits, and is unfairly maligned.
wayfarer
24m ago
or the usual Slavic predisposition towards melancholy.
I would rather blame extensive Russian-specific pathologies and malformed society
sulla
24m ago
I’m not overweight, but I have an average appetite and need to put effort into not overeating. I would describe it like this:
You have a strong itch. If you are on autopilot, your body will scratch it.With willpower, you might stop yourself from scratching it in the short term. But it doesn’t go away. It’s there every second of every hour of every day, and it is impossible to ignore, constantly demanding your attention.
You might not scratch it for a day. You might not scratch for a month, or even a year. But the thought of never scratching it for the rest of your life makes you want to cry. It feels cruel or unfair. But you know absolute discipline is required or scratching it will quickly become habit again.
But wait! It gets worse. You routinely attend social events where you are expected to scratch it. Everyone around you encourages you to return to your scratching ways.
The itch is unbearable. You decide to introduce “cheat days” where you are allowed to scratch the itch, while giving your body a week to recover. But it only makes it worse. It’s a weekly reminder of the relief that you ate denying yourself.
Eventually, you give in and allow yourself to scratch the itch. Your skin may be ruined but at least you are not subjected to the 24/7 torture if having a powerful itch that you can’t scratch.
Dieting is not scratching. Ozempic removes the itch (for many, at least).
self_made_human
C'est la vie
25m ago
Crutches exist for a reason! There are stupid way to use them, I guess, but typical use of crutches is extremely useful in an obvious way!
Precisely. I'm not sure why that terminology even came into the picture, given that it's not a reference to malingering, which is the only other remotely plausible way to misuse a crutch.
I do not have problems solved by Ozempic as far as I know, but if I could pop a safe pill to solve procrastination issues I would do it!
May I introduce you to our lord and savior, prescription stimulants? Not sure how I'd have become a doctor without them.
wayfarer
26m ago
You at the very least need to disclaim that abuse can have lasting effects, especially extreme one.
And that poor to great parenting has much lesser influence on outcomes than people expect.
It is different claim than "It's genetics or it's random."
wayfarer
29m ago
But don't tell people that changing their lifestyle doesn't work, because it does.
The tricky part is actually achieving it. I do not have this specific problem (eating so much that I cannot move under own power) but I have some other problems with obvious solutions that I have failed to do so far.
For example winning war can be obviously done by destroying enemy warfighting capacity. It can be done, was done multiple times and it works. But telling this to Russia/Ukraine/Hamas/Israel and telling them that they are stupid failures because they have not achieved it so far despite trying to win a war is not going to be an useful advise.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
32m ago
They're not wrong, but the actions they endorse, promote and undertake based on this run contrary to popular concepts like the "marketplace of ideas", "free speech" or "each citizen is an educated adult fully qualified to choose on his own what to think".
wayfarer
33m ago
When people get on their high horse and claim that using drugs to solve your problems is a crutch
Well obviously.
But when I broke my leg I got a crutch.
What the fuck I was supposed to do? Crawl? Walk on leg with broken bone, injure it further and howl in agony?
Crutches exist for a reason! There are stupid way to use them, I guess, but typical use of crutches is extremely useful in an obvious way!
I do not have problems solved by Ozempic as far as I know, but if I could pop a safe pill to solve procrastination issues I would do it!
Capital_Room
rather dementor-like
36m ago
the modern mainstream left seems to model ideas as akin to infectious diseases, which can spread from person to person merely through contact
Yes, but are they really all that wrong to model them — or at least some ideas — that way? I mean, isn't this a key part of why, traditionally, heresy was considered such a serious matter? Doesn't the "contagion" model somewhat follow from Dawkins's original "meme" concept; not to mention previous thinkers like Bernays and McLuhan on mass communications?
I mean, this is probably an area where I'd agree that "the Woke are more correct than the mainstream," and that your moderate centrist (classical liberal) sort are way too dismissive of the potential importance of memetic hygiene.
wayfarer
43m ago
Is it worth it to specifically criminalize such behavior?
Probably no: this type of bizarre stupidity seems rare and treating regulation as exciting adventure ends with EU or worse.
And you will get unintended consequences - for example if someone was send to prison for crime not disqualifying them from being parent or was innocent then "obvious" rule would make contact them with them a criminal offense. And it is only first and obvious problem I noticed, within first 10 seconds.
(note: how likely is that story is altogether faked?)
As a wise mullah once said: "What is the cure for such disorders? Beatings."
outlawing extremely rare stupidity and legalizing common stupidity seems backward
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
50m ago
Like are they seriously of the opinion that right wingers don't cop bans on this site?
I assume so? I used to think this, but have come around to agreeing this isn't true.
However, when many left-leaning people are saying this over and over again, what do you do? If you listen to them, I guess you end up banning more righties and making them mad.
If you don't, lefties will continue to drift away and you'll evaporatively cool the community into a right wing cesspit.
It's hard, it's very hard. At the bare minimum, I think we should triple the jannies salaries for all their hard work
IGI-111
God was a dream of good government.
58m ago
Are people really in such a mental state that they think an assault on trying to murder federal agents over deportations is an appropriate course of action?
If you truly believe that these are concentration camps and you're living the rise of a new fascism, it seems only appropriate.
Now it's insane to believe that evidently, but we're talking specifically about violent communists, so it's not surprising at all they believe this stuff.
Until the trigger actually has to be pulled, anyway.
OK, I got confused given that it was in thread about serious abuse (or maybe serious abuse).
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