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PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   37970 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 8, 2024

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One thing I've always liked about Macron how willing he is to put the common man in his place and his actions over the last month have only solidified this view. A substantial minority of the French threw a far right tantrum in the EU elections and they are going to be punished for it with total government deadlock over the next year at least. Here's hoping next time around they see sense (the pessimist in me knows though that it'll take at least a few more rounds of "treatment" before they behave).

  • -32

RN won 37% of the popular vote and the Macronistas have delivered an awkward minority government where they'll be deadlocked by the left until atleast the Presidential election.

A substantial minority of the French threw a far right tantrum in the EU elections and they are going to be punished for it with total government deadlock

Good, don't catch a falling knife. The situation in France can't be fixed with democratic reforms and a society that focuses on feelings. The correct way to vote for right wingers in the west is to vote against the system. The most anti-system vote is voting for gridlocking the system. Vote to get lame duck presidents, impossible coalitions and endless palace intrigue.

The system has several systemic issues to deal with and the best way to fight the behemoth is to ensure that the system is too busy squalling among themselves to solve anything.

You should probably include what you think is wrong with France that can't be fixed by democracy as normal.

Probably something to do with the Jews.

Please don’t speak for other posters.

If you think functor is being dishonest, either press him on it directly and politely, or move on. This sort of speculation isn’t helpful.

This comment (like many others of yours) seems motivated by a desire to guard your ego against the idea that indigenous Europeans don’t like your presence, and that you may not actually belong here.

There is no tantrum, there is just the usual democratic process, there is no punishment, merely Macron trying to retain power, again the usual democratic process.

Please refrain from psychoanalyzing other commenters. Or genetically analyzing them.

  • -11

Is it really psycho analysis though?

He's been pretty vocal in expressing his disdain for white people in general and western culture in particular. Are we supposed to just ignore that context when he starts going of about how people different from him desrve to be punished?

Yes and no.

seems motivated by a desire to guard your ego

Where does the conversation go from there? It’s immediately dragged down, because in addition to making it personal, this remark is unfalsifiable. BC can say “nuh uh,” and A can double down, but nothing good is likely to come of it.

Responding on the merits is best. Questioning motives is not recommended, but can be done with tact. I have yet to see someone tactfully and respectfully accuse another user of having a fragile ego.

Fine, but why not? (Psychoanalysing, I didn’t do any genetic analysis, he revealed his ethnicity giddily more than once)

It's a form of bad faith argument known as Bulverism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulverism

The Bulverist assumes a speaker's argument is invalid or false and then explains why the speaker came to make that mistake or to be so silly (even if the opponent's claim is actually right) by attacking the speaker or the speaker's motive.

Or genetically analyzing them.

What does this even mean? Are you saying it’s against the rules to acknowledge another commenter’s racial/ethnic background? Even a commenter like @BurdensomeCount who brings up those same topics all the time and who speaks openly about his own fraught racial/ethnic relationship to his host society?

There is a type of accusation along the lines of "you think this thing X, because you are a Y". These accusations are generally very annoying:

  1. Puts words and opinions in people's mouths that they might not hold.
  2. Turns discussions personal rather than idea oriented. It can become about whether someone is a Y rather than whether X is a good idea.
  3. Implies that the person can't change their mind and thus insures that no discussion can take place, only arguments and debate.

There are good ways to acknowledge someones biases without turning it immediately into shit flinging. "If I was a middle eastern man living in France I think I'd feel this way about things".

There are definitely situations where I wouldn't mind other people shedding some light on my own psychology. Sometimes I can see what my thoughts are motivated by and sometimes I'm stuck in my own blind-spot.

Perhaps the best way to do it is to collaboratively compare and contrast life experiences with one another. I've seen a few people having that sort of discussion on this very page. It seems to shed the desired sort of light with minimal epistemic friction.

Its the difference between solicited and unsolicited advice. Sure, go ahead and ask for solicited advice, we have whole weekly threads for that. Giving that advice unsolicited ... seems pretty rude and like you just want to pick a fight.

A substantial minority of the French threw a far right tantrum in the EU elections and they are going to be punished for it with total government deadlock over the next year at least.

punished with deadlock

Don't threaten me with a good time. Are you sure it's the "far" right throwing a tantrum?

These are the French we're talking about. Famously the country with one of the largest tax to GDP ratios in the world. Cutting off the ability for their government to function (and thus extract even more tax to fund even more spending) is like taking a fish out of water. It's gonna hurt.

Cutting off the ability of their government to mutilate their country even further can only be a good thing, if you're of a far right mindset.

Famously, the protests over the election are by the far left.

No don’t ask me why.

Weird how they have one of the best results in a while and still insist on le riot.

The rioters didn't necessarily vote for NFP (at least in the first round), or vote at all.

You know there are lots of interviews with them, right? Like why are you trying to deflect the blame here rather than celebrate like they are?

The French riot every time something happens. In Summer 2020 when the Floyd meme came to France, French policemen held their own counterprotest against accusations of brutality.

Electing a divided government does not guarantee an end of taxation and policies and stuff. Your idea sounds like a kind of vengeful wishful thinking: you want the French right to suffer, so you need an explanation. "The government you hate is more divided and powerless than ever, haha!" ?

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