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I will die on the hill that a very thin man in a bikini drinking bud light in his bathtub is not a woman in a bikini drinking bud light in her bathtub. Just because some people have absentmindedly skipped to 'okay now man=woman' does not mean I will subscribe to the changing ways of the world.
idk if more transwomen could convincingly pass , that would be worse in some ways
I'm actually curious, in what ways would it be worse if more transwomen could convincingly pass?
There'd be a lot more violence against "traps".
TBH I'd be fine with more passing "traps" and less "blue tribe hons". While we're at it give the passing traps a star spangled banner and a large black gun with the thing that goes up and we can start negotiating a cease fire on the trans front of the culture war.
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Sure but why does that impact you? Its just an ad for a demographic that is presumably not you.
I don't drink beer but if my favorite cider company did some ads with a NASCAR driver or Donald Trump or Kyle Rittenhouse or Ben Shapiro or whoever you think the opposite variant of Mulvaney might be then I just don't care. If they think aiming at a particular demo with a particular celebrity who is on the opposite culture war side to me helps their sales so what?
Its no skin off my nose. As long as they don't change how the cider tastes or how much it costs or whatever then they can market it however they please. They don't need to market to me, I already know I like it.
When Bud Lite gives somebody a commemorative can to celebrate their personal milestone of fake womahood, I would say they've sailed past bland ol' marketing and are deliberately pandering. And while I have a degree of tolerance for pandering, I have grown incredibly tired of the relentless affirmation of falshehoods and poor understandings woven throughout the trans phenomenon.
You want to put a rainbow flag over a six-pack? I think that's cringe, but I'm fine with it because I understand that symbol to be vague and open enough for people to read what they want from it. You want to personally celebrate a weirdo with their farcical, unconvincing transition into womanhood? Well... why? Could you imagine Bud giving commemorative cans to Dolezal for her inspiring journey into 'blackness'? And what would the reaction from the hoi polloi be? Sure, it wouldn't affect me personally. But it would be such an opportunity loss to not criticize it as abjectly stupid, or to question what the hell Bud was even thinking when they greenlit this stunt, and to also point out this pattern in marketing is increasingly ubiquitous from all major brands.
No, this doesn't affect the taste or quality of the product. But the cultural assumptions and messaging being baked into media and ads - now coming from your 'classic degenerate US beer company' - are absolutely obnoxious and demanding a pushback. What specificially is Bud celebrating here? What values are they displaying when they treat Dylan's transition as some legitimate thing that isn't to be questioned? Does the average employee even believe it? Or are they just going to continue ramrodding this shit, and once cornered default to "Hey guys! We just want to be nice and inclusive, no big deal! Choo choo", as if there isn't
a festering sociopolitical rat's nest of unexamined assumptions and contradictions roiling underneath?
"I just consume what I like and pay no attention to the marketing" is very much where I'd like to be, and probably where I still would be if this was the era of non-political Budweiser Frogs. Unfortunately, I have learned that I 'live in a society', and wokeness is intent on appropriating and weaponizing everything it can get its hands on; 'forcing' consensus through pop culture while skipping over every serious deliberation that could undercut it.
The Mulvaney cans are one of the biggest flexes I've seen, in many ways because of Bud Lite's preexisting image of a low-class red tribe beer. As if to say "even this territory can be conquered and made fabulous and gay, and boy aren't you the dysfunctional non-nice weirdo if disagree with any of this". One wonders why this whole performance - separate from the beer itself - might piss people off.
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You might not, but the left certainly cares based on all the cancelings: Netflix protests around Dave Chapelle, Spotify around Joe Rogan, the insane backlash to J.K. Rowling, and those are people that barely stepped out of line and were/are basically leftist in most other ways. Pretty much any right wing personality online has a hate mob that seems to be more obsessed with them than their own following is. Look at Andrew Tate recently or the other one whose name I can't remember and didn't manage to find online because a search for 'right wing twitch streamers' just brought up nytimes and cbs hit pieces complaining about them in general.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/27/technology/twitch-livestream-extremists.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/right-wing-influencers-turn-to-live-streaming-platform-twitch-to-reach-their-supporters/
Controlling the culture is power, it's clear the left understands this, not surprising that the right is starting to. Giving an inch was their biggest mistake in the first place.
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A society accepting what you see as a bad set of memes affects everyone. No man is an island.
The activists know this - that's why they went from "we just want to be left alone!" to "we need X, Y and Z to feel comfortable, fulfilled and validated".
"'You do you and I do mine" is at best an ideal that the temptations of actual power erodes or just an outright tactical lie to wear down opposing norms before instituting your own.
But does an ad targeted to a diffetent demographic do that, if said demo is already different?.
The people who would buy Bud light after seeing promoted by Mulvaney are presumably onboard with transness already no?
Society is not based on reason in the first place so I don't care what beliefs Bud light are exploiting or if they are true or not. Like i don't care if America truly is the greatest nation on earth in every third beer commercial or whatever. The truth doesn't matter. Its aimed at people who already believe it.
I don’t think any reasonable person thinks this demographic actually exists outside of like, 10 people.
The real story is probably that bud light is in decline, there isn’t really a way to fix that decline, and the head of marketing knows that and is trying to make it look good on her resume by attributing declining sales to transphobia. I don’t particularly care about that, but I do care that this is the one time my demographic can hit corporates with a boycott that hurts.
Why isn't the more parsimonious answer more likely? Bud light is in decline. They decide to market to a younger demo and pick a person to sponsor accordingly. The campaign was small it wouldn't cost much to test.
Sure, but I think both the left and the right (the mainstream of each at least) both agree that Nazis are bad. If we stipulate the right thinks Trans are bad, that still leaves you with the left. Obviously broad strokes there. But if you get Blue Tribe to like Bud Light that is a relevant demographic with generally more disposable income.
They are potential Bud Light buyers. It might not be an easy shift but it is one that could be made. As Bud Light went from the drink of wimps to the drink that is popular with Red Tribe today.
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It boggles the mind that anyone would be so ignorant as to think that there are potential bud light buyers in support of trans.
Why? Bud Light is a low cal beer. All my Blue Tribe friends drink is low cal stuff it seems. Remember light beers themselves used to be looked down on by "real" men back in the day. There is no reason with proper marketing it couldn't evolve it's demo again.
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As weird as this campaign seems to be, I'm not actually sure that's true. There's probably some traction with the seltzer, hard cider, hard lemonade crowd. Plus "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take," I guess?
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It’s simple. Trans is bad. It’s not a demo. It’s a mental illness. Like would you drink a beer that promotes Hitler?
I observe that Hitler is neither a demographic nor a mental illness.
Conversely, to the best of my knowledge, Mulvaney has not ordered millions to their deaths, nor even seized political power.
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Even if it is a mental illness that doesn't stop it being a demo. But the demo in question is people who don't think it is a mental illness and are supportive of it.
But this is basically my question, why is celebrating one trans person considered in the same level as celebrating a genocidal dictator? They aren't really the same no?
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Look, you are allowed to criticize transgenderism and say you think it's a mental illness, but this is just waging war against your outgroup. However strongly you feel, accept the fact that there are trans people who might be participating in the discussion and while you're allowed to tell them you think their self-identification is not reality, you are not allowed to tell them they're just like Hitler.
Respectfully you’ve drank the trans koolaid if you think this post was bad
I think I've made my own position on trans pretty clear. You make the same mistake every bitter ideologue does, of assuming that because I'm enforcing the rules against bashing your outgroup, it means I'm on "their" side.
Trans isn’t my outgroup. They don’t exist as a people
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But I do care buddy and the truth is I'm not going to buy bud light anymore. life is real beyond mental calculations of possibilities and hypotheticals
Would any trans spokesperson elicit this response even a conservative one? No gotchas, just trying to explore this.
Skipping past the joke I can't quite form about the paradoxical 'trans conservative spokesperson' - my gut says no, there was something uniquely perturbing about this specific AMAB being selected as a brand ambassador. Although the bathtub aspect would be an aggravating factor regardless of who it was
Caitlyn Jenner (the most MSM-famous transwoman) and Jennifer Pritzker (one of the main funders of trans causes) are both Republicans. Jennifer Pritzker appears not to be a movement conservative, although (s)he is obviously to the right of the median voter. Caitlyn Jenner endorsed Ted Cruz in the primary and Trump in the general in 2016, so I am reasonably comfortable calling them conservative.
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Thanks, I appreciate you expanding and thinking about it. I might not agree but I do appreciate you engaging.
I appreciate your engaging as well, and your thanks. Gratitude all around! Best wishes
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Bud Light buyers would probably buy a Bruce Jenner-themed can campaign, but not a Kaitlin Jenner can. But I’m neither a beer drinker nor a sports guy, so I’m just listing my priors.
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Why would who the ad is targeted at change that it is a normalization of something some people clearly see as bad memes/unreason? They [the ad critics] know it is aimed at a different demographic; that is precisely the problem.
The "'You do you' is a lie" comment was more of a general response to "how does it impact you?" and what usually is the implicit idea behind it - that if you can't draw an easy direct causal link to some harm done to you, the changing of social norms should be of less concern to you.
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You are telling on yourself, respectfully. That means NASCAR/Trump/Rittenhouse/Shapiro has never actively suggested anything like ‘man=woman’
Ok pick whatever you think the opposite is. I am not getting at the exact likeness, just the idea. Like a MAGa commercial when i don't think Trump actually makes Anerica greater or something. It doesn't have to be 1:1.
A lot of people would boycott a Trump beer. (or maybe wine would be more demographically appropriate)
In fact, didn't some non-Yeungling drinkers try to get a Yeungling boycott going when the owner had the temerity to say he supports Trump as a political candidate?
The difference here is that the pissed off people actually consume the product, like, a lot.
Didn't that actually happen? Or was that a wine that people thought was associated with Trump, but it was unaffiliated?
Regarding Yuengling, the stated reason for disliking the brand is union-busting. How much of that is a cover for disliking Trump, or how much of it is not unique to Yuengling but only spoken about because of Trump, I cannot say. I do know that I appreciate Yuengling as a family owned company because (to my understanding) the kids don't inherit a share by default: they have to work for it.
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But i am wondering why. The ad campaign was targeted at a different demo. And it didn't say our current drinkers are transphobes or bad right? It just used a trans (pseudo)celebrity as far as i can tell?
Not even a political one. Just someone who is trans. Is that really enough?
The other thing that amuses me a little is i am old enough to remember when people drinking light beers were seen as not being manly enough. So that too is a little interesting.
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You asked us to imagine how the scenario would play out given somebody that the left hates as much as the right hates Mulvaney -- it turns out there was an actual example, and the left got all pissy and tried to enact a boycott of a product that wasn't even targeted at them in the first place.
I'm not sure why this is surprising to you -- have you seen the things people have been up to in this CW?
Trump though is political Mulvaney is trans but not (as far as i can tell a political activist). The reaction to them simply being trans seems over the top to me.
Like if it was a minor Christian (or some other right coded identity) but otherwise standard celeb. Without political valence of their own, just their identity
You think trans activism is not political? I don't know what to say. Literally.
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