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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   32410 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 23, 2023

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And this was for a drug possession crime that US citizens are locked up in US jails for right now.

Actually, how many people in US actually are jailed for a possession of a less than a gram of weed? Does it actually happen in practice?

The number of people in prison for marijuana possession is the same as the number of wrongfully convicted people on death row. They might exist but the number approaches zero. And yet these two potentially non-existent categories somehow loom large in the popular dialogue around these topics.

is the same as the number of wrongfully convicted people on death row

These are probably similar numbers but I don't think they're similar ratio. Roughly:

Given the sheer difficulty of actually exonerating someone, the accuracy of convictions seems suspect.

I admit that "jailed for drug possession" is pretty much a myth/meme that Libertarians like to drop - including myself in the past.

Thank you. I think I was conflating "innocent people are not being executed" with "innocent people are not on death row". Seems I was wrong.

Very few to none. Almost all significant jail time for marijuana is for intent to distribute. Most states which haven't made it legal decriminalized it in small quantities or don't actively prosecute cases as of decades ago.

Its easy to assume that based on public info, but it is still an assumption. "Nearly 40% of law enforcement agencies around the country did not submit any data in 2021 to a newly revised FBI crime statistics collection program" https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/06/14/what-did-fbi-data-say-about-crime-in-2021-it-s-too-unreliable-to-tell

I'm willing to believe its extremely rare for simple possession to be the only thing a person is in jail for, but the threshold for intent to distribute is at like .5 oz. A half ounce of weed is more likely to be a purchase by a person who doesn't want to go buy weed every week than someone who plans on selling 1 gram at a time. Really makes me wonder how many people in jail for selling weed were ever even selling weed at all.

Half an ounce could really go either way. You're underestimating how much weed dealing is really, really petty nonsense.

Intent to distribute/felony possession is different from state to state, but many are in the pounds and few (maybe none) are as low as half an ounce. Federal numbers have been absurdly large for a while since they're mostly interested in international trafficking.

Fair point about felony thresholds, it seems only 5-10 states care whether you have a half ounce or not (based on this ). The thing is though, i'm pretty sure if you are caught going between states with weed you can get hit with trafficking in those states, so even if the feds don't care, a local PD could decide to be a dick about how they write up that 1/2 ounce.

Yes, but adding "intent to distribute" to a simple possession charge is routine.

Is it? I thought I heard some urban legend about how "intent to distribute" was something they could tack on just on the basis of sheer mass, but that it still required meeting some minimum threshold. But the drug war hasn't been something I've paid attention for a long time.

Its common for people with extensive previous records or who are involved in violent crime. I don't think that's what people are thinking about when they hear someone went to jail for Marijuana for years.

The ones that talked back to the cop who found it.

I suspect that these might have gotten a ride and an overnight stay, but are there people who actually serving jail sentence for less than a gram of weed right now? How many of them?

Cops don't determine sentencing, or even charging for that matter.

If they got caught with less than a gram of wax in an airport? Straight to jail.

This doesn’t seem to be true. See eg. https://www.laattorney.com/amp/what-if-i-get-caught-with-weed-while-flying.html which claims that it basically never happens in California. Does it happen anywhere else?

I am really interested in actual figures. Are we talking about 10 000 people currently being imprisoned for possessing less than a gram of weed? 1000? 10? 2 unlucky guys in Kentucky?

In practice in California itself or California to Nevada there is no worry transporting small amounts the TSA doesn’t care in the slightest neither do the local cops they might ring up. Maybe some states could book you, but those are getting fewer and fewer.

the TSA doesn’t care in the slightest

I know California cops don't particularly care. But I sure would have thought that the TSA would enforce Federal drug laws. A gram of cannabis wax is probably a big problem to get caught with in an airport.

Waxes and other concentrates are legally distinct and way more illegal even in some "cool" states, so yeah i would not advise travelling with your dab pen.

how many people in US actually are jailed for a possession of a less than a gram of weed?

I don't know about a gram, but for solely marijuana possession with no prior sentences, a very small amount in state prison and now none in federal prison, Biden pardoned them 3 months ago. However to my knowledge the federal law hasn't come off the books so anyone can still be charged. Overall enforcement by police is way down though.

Good point on the pardon.

Yeah, I know it’s on the books, but it doesn’t matter. We have a lot of laws are on the books but don’t really get enforced in a way books specify. What I really am interested about is actual figure. I know that this is really rare, and most incarcerated people are there for much more serious offenses, but how many people actually currently serve a sentence for simple possession of less than a gram of weed? 1000? 100? 10? Nobody?

Overall enforcement by police is way down though.

It was never that high. There was a report in the early 2000s where the median weed offender in state or federal prison had over 100 lbs (perhaps kgs, I'd have to re-check) in their possession. That is median, not mean.

Federal is the key word there. Most weed offenders are at the state level

No it included both.

you edited your post

I did not.

Why not? It equally counts people caught with .000000000001 lbs. Going by median is how you diminish outliers.

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