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Culture War Roundup for the week of January 23, 2023

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Cancel culture does not work on legitimate financial elites.

I wonder if we could make a comparison to Kanye. They really dropped the hammer on him, he's not even a billionaire anymore after Adidas cancelled their relationship with him. I suppose he was in a more precarious financial position than Rowling though. At any rate, there are degrees of cancellation. There's been a lot of angry words on the internet - I saw one HP fanfic on AO3 post an angry disclaimer about how much they disliked Rowling. But the trans lobby can't bring out the big guns like the Jewish lobby can.

Interestingly enough, there's also been an undercurrent of antisemitism in the Hogwarts Legacy debate. Apparently you help fight a goblin rebellion in the game. Harry Potter goblins have long been associated with Jews. They run the bank at Gringotts and mint the currency, are considered by wizards to be greedy and treacherous and have hooked noses. Plus, there was actually a star of david in one of the films, on the bank floor of Gringotts. They used a real bank for filming, so this might have been an unintentional slip-up.

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At any rate, there are degrees of cancellation

and there are degrees to "cancellable comments."

Kanye has received the biggest ban hammer of them all, but he has also made the most egregious racial comments of any celebrity in the recent past. Every time I heard an absurd headline about him, I'd think he had been misquoted. Then I'd go watch the source, and it was every bit as deranged as the headline claimed. Even when around good-faith interviewers like Lex, Kanye pulled out every anti-jew stereotype in rapid-fire fashion. Almost as if to ensure the swiftest cancellation possible. When Alex Jones is the sane one in the room, you know Kanye has gone off on the deep end.

Soon after, Chapelle made some similar points about the over-representation of jews in Hollywood and Jon Stewart pretty much gave the 'go ahead' to Chapelle's statement. Now you might say that it's Jon Stewart in damage control trying to not let this thing Streisand itself. But, Chapelle is still popular as ever and untouched. Criticism of Israel is pretty common place and joking about Jewish stereotypes is pretty much permitted in the industry.

Sure, Kanye was the billionaire that got cancelled. But damn did Kanye do everything possible to get cancelled.

They really dropped the hammer on him, he's not even a billionaire anymore after Adidas cancelled their relationship with him.

Then he never really was a billionaire. Theoretical future money you may or may not get from a business deal doesn't actually count.

Then he never really was a billionaire. Theoretical future money you may or may not get from a business deal doesn't actually count.

Well, then most billionaires aren't actual billionaires. The value of of Kanye's stake in Yeezy plummeted absent without his partnership with Adidas (and the fact that no one else would want to fill Adidas's role in the partnership given the stigma around him) . If equity in a company (Kanye's clothing company) doesn't count as wealth then what does? I'm not sure how you would measure wealth, but I that certainly isn't how wealth is normally measured. By your reasoning, there was probably a brief point where Elon Musk was both the richest person in the world and not a billionaire as you define it, given that he didn't, for a decent period of time, have a billion dollars in money outside his stakes in his personal companies.

It seems counterintuitive that a guy who was then richest person ever should yet, according to your unique definition, not be a billionaire. I mean more power to you, but you are using the word in a very strange way.

Note that I didn't say equity in his company. My issue is with the notion that one can be counted as a billionaire when they don't even have the assets yet. In this case, future earnings from his business deal with Adidas that weren't realized. If he isn't a billionaire after that goes up in smoke, then he never was actually a billionaire.

Also... yeah, people do overestimate wealth that is totally ephemeral. I'm not saying that you have to have your wealth all in cash, but I think that there is kind of a minimum threshold of stability here. If I have billions in a diverse variety of investments such that even if I lose one I won't lose them all, that's pretty good. If I have them invested in a single bucket which is pretty stable, that's not as good but still reasonable. If I have billions in an investment that is fairly risky, then I may not deserve to be called a billionaire. If I have billions in dogecoin, then I'm not remotely qualified to be called a billionaire.

It's amazing to me how even here, people will just repeat the worst bad-faith criticism ginned up by Rowling's haters.

Harry Potter goblins have long been associated with Jews.

This is kind of like JRR Tolkien's critics claiming that orcs are meant to be black people or Asians. Rowling's critics found that you can map some goblin traits onto Jews and decided that she did it on purpose because she's an anti-Semite.

Plus, there was actually a star of david in one of the films, on the bank floor of Gringotts. They used a real bank for filming, so this might have been an unintentional slip-up.

Sigh. No, it's not a Star of David. They filmed it at the Australia House in London. It's a star from the Australian flag.

This is kind of like JRR Tolkien's critics claiming that orcs are meant to be black people or Asians.

I'm not sure how to articulate why I don't like this kind of reasoning, but I think it's something like this:

  1. Trait X is widely regarded as bad.

  2. People want to portray ethnic group A as bad, so they associate group A with trait X.

  3. A fiction author wants to make fictional group B look bad, so they associate group B with trait X.

It doesn't follow that the author is trying to associate group A with group B.

At no point did I say Rowling was anti-Semitic, only that her work can be interpreted to be anti-Semitic.

They filmed it at the Australia House in London.

Correct, I slipped up there.

It's a star from the Australian flag.

It's clearly a hexagram, two equilateral triangles, which is also a star of David. The early Australian flag had a hexagram on it as well but this was changed in a couple of years to a seven pointed star. At any rate, there is nothing distinctively Australian about hexagrams, it does not symbolize Australia.

At any rate, there is nothing distinctively Australian about hexagrams, it does not symbolize Australia.

Indeed it does; it is a Commonwealth Star, representing the six original states of Australia. The Commonwealth Star now has 7 points but presumably when the Exhibition Hall at Australia House was designed, it had 6.

At no point did I say Rowling was anti-Semitic, only that her work can be interpreted to be anti-Semitic.

Sure it can, but I contend that that is not a good faith interpretation.

It's clearly a hexagram, two equilateral triangles, which is also a star of David. The early Australian flag had a hexagram on it as well but this was changed in a couple of years to a seven pointed star. At any rate, there is nothing distinctively Australian about hexagrams, it does not symbolize Australia.

I don't know the exact history of the Australia House, but are you claiming they laid down a Jewish Star of David when they built it for some reason? Because I find that a lot less likely than that it was either there for some other decorative purpose, or was based on the earlier Australian flag.

Yeah, I hate this kind of reaching. It's what leads Pathfinder and WotC to replace "race" with "ancestry" and "species."

The ancient Greeks likes to make up tribes of far off people like the amazons, the centaurs, the cynocephali, the Laestrygonians - and while they probably did reflect anxienties and bigotries by the Greeks against people in the world, I think this kind of imagination is an important part of human storytelling. Sure, the real secret of these non-human races is that they're all humans, but emphasizing one aspect or another of humanity.

But they still let us tell interesting stories about broad ideologies. Doctor Who wouldn't be the same without omnicidal Daleks, or assimilationist Cybermen. Those two alien species aren't "really" non-human aliens. Much of sci-fi and fantasy is not trying to do genuinely speculative "what if there was an alien species that differed from humanity in major way X", but instead presenting an allegorical reflection of humanity to criticize some tendency in humanity. It's like Black Mirror - several of the episodes are just our world, but with aspect X taken to some crazy extreme to make the faults of our current system more striking.

It's silly to pretend that the goblins in Harry Potter are or always were anti-Semitic. The best argument you could say on this front is that folkloric goblins might have some atavistic anit-Semitic traits, which Rowling unthinkingly reproduced. That doesn't mean that any story where the goblins rise up against oppressive wizard kind is automatically anti-Semitic.

I wonder if we could make a comparison to Kanye

At any rate, there are degrees of cancellation.

Based on the degree of the crime committed. JK Rowling is fighting at the front line border of the culture war, and has held rather orthodox progressive views aside from transgenderism. Even in the trasngenderism debate she is using a different branch of progressivism, feminism, to fight it. It would likely be different is she was fighting some already past and adopted progressive tenet. Another difference with Kanye is that he criticized the ethnic group of a large number of elites rather than a group that the elites push.

Kanye knows that rap careers are short. Old rappers are not going on tour, unlike old rockers. He's looking for some sort of second act: pundit, politician, etc. Being unnecessarily controversial even if it costs him money is part of that.

That is absurd. He was making more money than he ever had before, in the months preceding his cancelation he made up the majority of online sales on Adidas' website. The world was his oyster, he had reached the greatest financial success of his life, surpassed all his peers, and the value of his company was still sky rocketing.

Old rappers are not going on tour, unlike old rockers.

Tour? You do realize that he was now a billionaire designer, yes? Who cares about going on tour? Kanye had one of the most devoted fan bases, and he can and did go on tour, but he now a fashion brand, who happened to rap as a side job. Rhianna, another artist turned billionaire fashion label, hasn't performed in 10 years. It doesn't matter. They don't have to do that kind of stuff any more.

Then he lost billions of dollars in a single week, and if you think that it was part of some 3D chess move and not just bad impulse control then I don't know what to tell you.

Old rappers are not going on tour, unlike old rockers.

Snoop Dogg (51 years old), Eminem (50 years old), Big Daddy Kane (54 years old), Ice-T* (64 years old), Rakim (54 years old), Krs-One (57 years old), Chuck D (62 years old) and Slick Rick (58 years old) are all touring in 2023.

*As a member of Body Count.

Old rappers are not going on tour, unlike old rockers

How much of that is the relative newness of rap, though? Along with the preponderance of solo acts meaning that death/disability to a name means that it can't be Ship of Theseus'd like a lot of bands are at this point.

He had a second act: fashion. That he fought really, really hard for. He then immolated it and most of his non-rap business links not due to some career plan, but because he's a mentally ill narcissist.

I actually think he's not narcissistic at all, but is surrounded by narcissistic people and he doesn't know how to cope. Like all good creatives and artists, he's doing his best to represent the world as he sees it because he wants to help people but he does it in a way that steps on toes, and he thinks it's ok to step on toes because he thinks he's revealing things that will help people because it's helped him in the past. But he, like many of us at themotte, finds that exposing his reality gets him in hot water, but he's past the point of caring about not stepping on toes of people he sees as the elite, when he thinks it can help empower people who really deserve to be helped.

More plainly: Kanye sees Jews as oppressing poor people in America. He wants to help poor people in America, so he attacks Jews. He's not crazy, he just has a different perspective than everyone else who thinks "I can't attack jews because [fill in the blank.]" He thinks "I need to attack jews because they have the power, they are literally the ones who can keep me from being a billionaire (see what happened) and I'd rather attack people with power than poor hillbillies who wear White Lives Matter t-shirts" (hence his wearing a white lives matter t-shirt and attacking Jews.)

I'm not defending his actions or beliefs but it drives me crazy to see everyone misunderstanding him and thinking he's mentally ill when he's so clearly just working from a different perspective than the vast majority of people, in my opinion.

More plainly: Kanye sees Jews as oppressing poor people in America. He wants to help poor people in America, so he attacks Jews. He's not crazy, he just has a different perspective than everyone else

My opinion on Kanye being a narcissist long predates anything about Jews. Trust me, there's about a decade and a half of weirdo things he's done.

We could put that aside and still have reams of evidence.

I'm not defending his actions or beliefs but it drives me crazy to see everyone misunderstanding him and thinking he's mentally ill when he's so clearly just working from a different perspective than the vast majority of people, in my opinion.

People think he's mentally ill because he's literally a person diagnosed with bipolar disorder who's talked about going off his meds, and then does things -like torch a lifetime's work in a totally unproductive way- that make it appear as if he's manic.

No one doubts that he has a different perspective. The issue is how many different ones he has depends on how stable he is on that day.