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PaperclipPerfector  14d ago (text post)   35949 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 20, 2025

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Fifth (or kind of, since it's related to both 2 and 4), this is going to really rile up the other side, and for nothing. This will convince everyone that Trump's next step is to do <insert batshit thing people somehow think Trump will do> and that this is the chance he's been waiting for to tear down the world and rebuild it in his own image. I think I'm never gonna hear the end of this one from the people I know.

Putting on the 4D-chess-tinfoil-hat, riling up the other side over nonsense, being loudly foolish if we want to put it that way, can be an effective distraction. Waste enough of their energy on getting outraged about renaming things, and there's less energy for opposing things you care about. Of course, there's always the risk of wasting your own energy on it too and you don't get around to the things that matter, either.

I think I'm never gonna hear the end of this one from the people I know.

Are these people potential Trump voters? Will they ever be allies? If not, then who cares?

That's the downside of polarization. There's no benefit to reaching across the aisle. Trump can't be shamed by these people because they will hate him no matter what he does. He could be the second coming of FDR and they would still reflexively hate him. They compared him to Hitler.

That's why riling them up about "Gulf of America" is smart politics. It makes his critics look a little crazy and it distracts them from things that matter.

You can't appease people who can't be appeased, but you can troll them.

The weird thing is Trump actually is pretty nice to people once they show a little niceness to him in kind.

This is exactly the reason Elon did the nazi salute, and I'm amazed no one else is picking up on that.

Are these people potential Trump voters? Will they ever be allies? If not, then who cares?

Well, I mean I'm sure you and I have different values and end goals. Suffice it to say, whether someone is a Trump supporter is not what I care about in my life. I'd say that even filtering people on that isn't even an option for me. If I did try to break ties with every person I know who is a TDS leftist... I'm pretty sure I'd have almost no one left in my life.

I've made the friends I've made and have the family I was born with and for whatever reason, they almost universally think differently from me regarding politics. I've tried, but failed to make new friends. I've found that when I try to specifically find local people who are anti leftist like me, they end up going too far in the other direction, and get annoyingly complainy with lack of adherence to truth, nuance, and values I like (e.g. they've often been strong followers of Ben Shapiro and others I deem to be grifting pundits).

At some point, I've had to make peace with this to avoid driving myself crazy, and just move on with my life, with the people I organically have found to be my community, while just praying people don't talk about politics too much. So the stuff I hate the most, from either side, is the stuff that will cause people to start interjecting their political opinions into my everyday life.

You'd know who'd be a good friend for you better than I would, and no one's entitled to your friendship; your friendships, your choice.

However, if scaled up this bodes poorly for the anti-leftist side, if anti-leftists are more willing to police and cutoff other anti-leftists for "going too far" or following the wrong kinds of people, whereas leftists are more willing to take a "no enemies to the left" approach. That means anti-leftists will be more fractured, with fewer allies and support networks, with a more constrained Overton window than leftists. Who knows, maybe you've unwittingly encountered potential anti-leftist friends, but they kept you at arms length and eventually quietly quit you because they found you went too far and followed the wrong people (like known scientific racist Scott Alexander).

That's fair. But I don't personally think that's the case. Most anti-leftists I have known have no scruples or even much higher level thought other than an extreme hatred of the left, and an arguments-as-soldiers kind of approach. For whenever reason, I've become different from that over time (and I believe many people in the motte, and anti-leftists in the rationalist community as well are more like me than other anti-leftists). I am anti leftist because I care about the truth, not in spite of the truth. It's just hard to meet other anti-leftists like that. Rationalists are rare to meet (where I am), anti-leftists are rare to meet, anti-leftist rationalists are really rare to meet.

I am anti leftist because I care about the truth, not in spite of the truth.

Meanwhile, I've been trying to train myself to give zero consideration for the truth for years, and haven't achieved any success. Any pointers from anybody?

Oh sure dude, just write things. Write whatever. I didn't think about what was true for even a second before I started writing this post, I have no idea if it will work or not, but I guarantee it's what you need to do.

I'm guessing you're being sarcastic, but truly, I have had so many experiences where I go to meet people on some conservative or libertarian meetup, and I'm excited to meet them, but then I find they're just extremely confrontational mindless drones who will jump on board any conspiracy theory, parrot anything they heard no matter how little sense it makes or how likely it is, or champion anyone who likewise wants to own the libs. Whatever it takes to convince themselves just a little more that leftists totally suck. That's not the sort of person I want to be or care to be around anymore.

Sarcastic? Not in the least. I want to fit in with my allies that parrot anything they heard no matter how little sense it makes, instead of counter-productively raging at them. I want to be a part of the solution.

If I did try to break ties with every person I know who is a TDS leftist... I'm pretty sure I'd have almost no one left in my life.

Are these people aware that you're right-adjacent?

Some of them. Some of them I haven't told, some may have forgotten, some may have assumed that I've moved back (and I have moved back to some degree, but probably not as much as they think), one accepts and understands our differences, and some maybe just don't care to bring it up with me.

Yeah, that sounds about right. I do have a set of friends with MDS (though I have some other friends who are from somewhat to far to the right of me, to balance), and as long as you don't have to constantly hide who you are around them, it's fine to just let them complain for a while. Best of luck in these four years (maybe more?)!

Thanks, you too.

It took me a few minutes to put together "MDS". It is another insidious and rapidly growing variant that may overtake and outlive the initial TDS strain.

I have TDS friends too, I don’t think anyone is saying you should drop them. But failing to capitalise on victory so that your friends don’t get mad at you is tactically foolish and IMO sends your friends and mine entirely the wrong message: that the louder they get, the more everyone will acquiesce.

If they were potential political allies it might be different. But right now they lost and that means it’s their turn to learn some humility. We can still be friends but their TDS is their problem not mine, and it’s time for them to learn to reign themselves in the way I did.

Are these people potential Trump voters? Will they ever be allies? If not, then who cares?

Yeah, that's been my issue in this conversation. As far as I can tell, the loudest voices against the pardons wouldn't be caught dead voting for Trump.

EDIT: Oops - I'm in the wrong thread, but the point stands.

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