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desolation

You shall love your crooked neighbor, with your crooked heart

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joined 2022 September 12 12:41:49 UTC 

				
User ID: 1157


				
				
				

			

		

	














	


		


			



	

		

			

			

				

					

						

							
						

						

							
							

								
desolation


								

								

								
								
								

								
							
					
 
				


				
You shall love your crooked neighbor, with your crooked heart

				
				
				

				

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					joined 2022 September 12 12:41:49 UTC
				


				
					

					
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User ID: 1157


					
					
					
				

			


					

						
					



		

	

 











			
			

			
			

			




	


		

			
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				Culture War Roundup for the week of February 10, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Do you believe that there’s a legitimate distinction to be made between “gay men” and “men who have sex with men”?




Yes, I find Sin's wording a bit odd regarding the women thing, but I like the are versus do description. There is a legitimate distinction there. Gay men are a particular subset of MSM, and part of defining the subset is the cultural component.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of February 10, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


also, mostly irrelevant




How on earth is this irrelevant given that it was the astronomical promiscuity rate specific to gay men that made them the perfect, ha, breeding ground?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of February 10, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Grandad's Pride, scroll down to "Reviews with pictures" if you're curious. Or here's an article with a description:




Will Taylor described two particular images in the book: ‘We identified two images of men who are partially naked in leather bondage gear. One has a leather cod-piece moulded tightly around his crotch along with garters running down his thighs. He also has a studded dog collar around his neck and knee-high boots. Both have various leather straps around their bodies and studs/spikes.’




I'm pretty live and let live and not exactly put-off by collars and garters, where appropriate. But I'm baffled by the fact anyone thought this book was a good idea, and anyone that green-lit it should be on a watchlist. I wouldn't complain about- what was it, penguins with two dads that was popular for a while? The line between encouraging acceptance and being porn-brained creep is not thin; there's a great big flashing wall between those, and yet here we are.


If you want to say conservatives abused the "groomer" thing, I'll agree. Unfortunately, there's just enough wackadoos that pull this shit and useful idiots that defend it to provide a good supply of ammunition.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of February 10, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


opposition to feminism




Underdefined.




opposition to pornography, support for abstinence-only sex education




Progressives decided to fight on the hill of children's book about leather daddies, but outside of schools he doesn't seem to care. Vance might.




opposition to LGBT rights




He just appointed a married gay Huguenot to the Secretary of the Treasury. Lumping them all together is what generates the confusion, and contributed to the backlash that got Trump reelected.




support for school vouchers, support for homeschooling




Funny how quickly homeschooling went from left-hippy coded to right-coded.




opposition to gambling,




He owned a casino! Politicians are no stranger to hypocrisy but he doesn't seem opposed to gambling. And given the disaster that is sportsbetting, he probably should be.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of February 10, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


If you harden your hearts towards the suffering of the least fortunate among you, it will come back to bite you in the rear end.




The trans-Sarahan slave trade was at least as large as the trans-Atlantic, but one observes that there's no class of descendants begging for reparations in the Middle East. In large part because they castrated male slaves to prevent that issue.


Hardening your heart does not tend to bite you, if you harden it enough. Being charitable is good, being hard-hearted is advantageous, it is the mushy middle that bites you. History makes many arguments that moral improvement comes with surprisingly high and enduring costs. Europe is steadily learning that lesson.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of February 3, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Well, it isnt for me.




That's good! A healthier way to approach it. I just can't shake it from the back of my head.


Yeah, it's been a while since I've made the longer comments I tend to make back at the schism, and in a pique I deleted a lot of my first comments here when I went away for a while. I still read here some but don't feel like I fit or have as much to say as I used to.


From what I've read, I think you're much the same here as elsewhere.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of February 3, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Fair point, edited


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of February 3, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I think it is worth testing the standards of outfits that people are relying on for information, if only to make sure the pipeline isn't broken and flawed in some way.




Part of the difference in judgement and the reaction around these parts, or at the blocked and reported subreddit, is how the observer weighs the target.


We all Many of us have extremely low opinions of LoTT's reliability, I'm pretty sure even some "locals" that are mostly sympathetic to her have a low opinion of her, so it's not that interesting to pull one over on her. She's a partisan hack and everyone knew it. Tricking a stooge isn't that fun and tends to backfire (like the infamous "it's okay to be white" and OK sign things from 4chan made the world worse rather than simply revealing how gullible and bigoted a certain kind of progressive is).


Pulling a hoax on the Ivory Tower, that's supposed to be our high-quality repository of knowledge, is different.


Edited in response to fair critique of consensus building language.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of February 3, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I dont even remember that one




I thought the the hoax with the furry school assignment was pretty memorable. It affected my opinion of Trace, and the degree of outraged response that he'd stoop that low was a big component in him leaving the motte. I also think that's part of the reason he's sympathetic to hanania, despite him being an atrocious ghoul- he's one of not many conservatives that didn't snap at Trace for that stunt.


Good point about the difference in self-presentation (I'm still professorgerm back on reddit). I think another component is, to borrow Trace's phrase, that he's a "live player." Interacting before he became a media personality, he's just some guy in a forum and we're on level playing ground- like with SLHA. Now, it's different.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of February 10, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Darwin never had a sense of humor, at least she's got that.


I'll respect our difference of opinion if you don't find it funny, but I chuckled.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 27, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


If even public health officials don't know, what hope has the average "upstanding citizen"?






Also. A bit after I first read about it online, I mentioned it to my parents--and they dismissed it as a stereotyped myth... BTW they don't know about Rotherham either, same reason, I tried to mention it to them and they just pattern-matched it to "blood libel type things.")




Excellent post, thank you for it. Saw it in the roundup (well-deserved!) and it stood out to me, that once public health officials didn't know, and now it is more common- among many people, public health officials perhaps most importantly- to refuse to know.


Anyways. An observation. Hope to see more of your writing here.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 20, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


If a troll post manages to be interesting enough to lead to a good conversation, I would say it made a contribution, even if unintentionally.




I agree in theory but there's nothing left to be learned from the 500th round of "what is woke? Also, everyone that calls other people woke is evil, an idiot, or both."


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 20, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I feel like people really undersell how crazy it is that we had an angry mob break into Congress.




2020 dug deep into a well of insanity that we still haven't climbed out of in many ways.




For national respect and social cohesion that’s so much worse than burning down a police station.




I get a certain argument about the symbolism of DC and institutions, but I still believe the passé attitude so many liberal-progressives had about widespread street violence displayed much more disregard for social cohesion. It was a rejection of social cohesion on the national "territory," not the national "map," so to speak.


Say what you will about national socialism J6ers, at least it's an ethos they took their aggrievement where they thought it belonged, not against random businesses or apartment buildings or freight trains that happened to be nearby.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 20, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I think your comment is whataboutism, but I've never been convinced that whataboutism is a bad form of argument. Why shouldn't one side complain about being held to a different moral standard than the other?




Succinct, good point, quality contribution sentences.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 20, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Letting Enrique Tarrio out of a 22 year sentence is reprehensible imo. Kinda increases the incentives for doing political crimes now.




Getting 10 years for burning a man to death was far worse.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 20, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
A better move would be to find something they care about that hasn't been renamed recently, and rename that. That's more tit for tat than reversal is, but requires that they actually care about something.


Though imagining a sign splitting the difference by saying "Denali (D)/McKinley (R) National Park" is a bit funny.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 20, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Putting on the 4D-chess-tinfoil-hat, riling up the other side over nonsense, being loudly foolish if we want to put it that way, can be an effective distraction. Waste enough of their energy on getting outraged about renaming things, and there's less energy for opposing things you care about. Of course, there's always the risk of wasting your own energy on it too and you don't get around to the things that matter, either.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 20, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Here's to hoping that the next four years do indeed make America great again, again.




Hope springs eternal!




if not the United States, where would you go?




Ulaanbataar. The steppe nomads will rise again!


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 13, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Wouldn't they be similarly worried about getting sued out of business and their license revoked for not treating sepsis?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 13, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
What a stupid, self-abrogating way to discuss something.


It was suggested in a reply that part of the switch is that Minority Ethnic will fall out of usage because White British are a minority ethnic when distinguished from the overarching "White" category in City of London and City of Westminster. Still the plurality, though.


Which led me down the Wikipedia hole. The UK Other White population pyramids are pretty fascinating, there's almost no male surplus at any age across any subpopulation. Noticeable female surplus of White Germans and White North Americans at almost every age. White New Zealander/Australian is less symmetric and "smooth" than the rest.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 13, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Oof, yeah, totally forgot about that one.


Salim and the Jinn came to mind after more thought, though I'm sure most people now complaining about Gaiman still wouldn't take kindly to calling that one deviant.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 13, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I appreciate the effort to debate and ask this question, but the problem is that defining "they" down to actual names is quite an arduous task!


I'll take an example that affected my life last year. My wife taught at a suburban (exurban?) Title I elementary school. Majority-minority classes. It has been a trend for several years, and mentioned above in this thread, that disparate impact policy may have been well intentioned but boiled down to "it's basically impossible to suspend students, even if they're violent." She had one student that needed a great deal of help and had violent outbursts. A violent 2nd grader can't do that much, but he could throw a chair or destroy the room. Policy hamstrings teachers against doing anything. So at least once a week, he'd have an outburst and she'd shuffle the rest of the class out to wait it out.


Nobody argues for "public schools should be held hostage by their worst students, and basically non-functional multiple hours a week," but somehow we get there anyways. I can't point to any individual that wants that. It's the result of a long string of decisions and beliefs, some good and some horrifying, a massive messy web of lawsuit-avoidance and ideological pandering and EdD/PhD overproduction.


Should I name the principal? No, she wasn't too bad and I believe when she said she's hamstrung by the school board (and the feds, Title I!). Should I name the board? Well, I certainly vote against them but they're not the source of the idiocy, they just help enact it. Where does the idea come from upstream of them? I'd love to be able to point at one person whose work could be erased and schools could go back to functioning, but unfortunately that's not the way it works.




the people who think our main problems are caused by Oppressors organizing society to keep the oppressed under their heel




Ibram Kendi, Nicole Hannah-Jones, Robin Diangelo, Sara Rao, Liz Warren, Tema Okun, every person that took any of the aforementioned loons seriously, every journalist that doesn't work for an explicitly right-wing media source, every sociologist, every critical theorist, 80+% of university professors that aren't economists.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 13, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


American Gods




Have I just blocked out or forgotten the deviancy? Yeah, Laura's death seems like a cosmic punishment for infidelity, and the ancient god in Wisconsin (?) is disturbed but I don't remember it being a sexual thing. Might have to just pick it up for a reread.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 13, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I don't remember any of the short stories being particularly weird in this way, no.


The way Laura dies in American Gods is a bit salacious but not like this kind of thing; it's something of a cosmic punishment for infidelity. I don't recall Neverwhere or The Ocean At The End of the Lane being explicit, but it's kind of in the background of both that Gaiman is channeling a disturbed psyche. I didn't expect these kinds of revelations, but they're not surprising, either. Maybe I just have very low expectations of fantasy authors from 80s England.


An above description of The Sandman comics gives a couple hints, also his parents were abusive and his father nearly drowned him for Scientologist reasons.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 13, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
LOL at your new flair.




I don't know how to argue on that except...don't?




Well, it's a phenomenon that seemingly a large number of people agree exists and is meaningful, but refuses to name itself, works the euphemism treadmill in an attempt that no name sticks for long, every blowhard commentator comes up with a new name to sell their book, etc.


Since I've been told that nobody calls themselves woke anymore since it got treadmilled by the right, I don't think it's such a bad thing to save it as a negative descriptor and hope that a positive descriptor comes along that sticks for more than five minutes for the parts that aren't terrible. It's not an ideal situation, I agree.




If the question is "wokeness is receding"




I was addressing your question of attempting to define it, not addressing OP's question at all.


I don't think it particularly is receding. Even though it's ebbed from the pandemic-induced mass psychosis a lot of the attitudes are sticking around, and we as a society (and even worse, as The West) are not really wrestling with what it actually means to be multicultural, multiethnic liberal democracy.




Mark Zuckerburg just claimed that the bias he struggles with in his business is because of the overabundance of "feminine energy"; I hardly see that as symptoms of a decline.




Yeah, that's what I didn't like about Huemer's definition. Many people have entrenched ideas about what "racist" and "sexist" means, and even when presented with examples of anti-white (or "politically white" like Asians in school admission cases) racism or anti-male sexism, they'll say that it's justified on historic grounds (regardless of the actual people affected).