domain:philippelemoine.com
problem_redditor
2m ago
Place: Place, Japan
So, I'm currently planning a holiday in South Korea over the Christmas period, and when researching places it's common to come across posts on social media asking whether SK or Japan is a better place to visit. The outcome is always the same: regardless of the comparison, Japan is virtually always touted as the best destination in East Asia. Note - I don't want this to be any kind of anti-Japanese post, since I actually quite enjoy Japanese food, culture, etc quite a bit, and see how it would be attractive to a tourist. However, I'm not quite certain why it is that Japan gets hyped up to this degree, compared to other Asian countries.
I am a very archaeology and history-focused person, so keep this in mind when reading this post.
The arguments many travellers make in favour of the pro-Japan position primarily rely on historical significance: there's the characterisation of Japan as being a uniquely cultural place, filled with ancient historical shrines, palaces and temples that can't be found elsewhere in East Asia - Korea in specific is considered to be generally devoid of meaningful culture as compared to Japan due to the history of destruction in the country from the Imjin War onwards. But once you've looked further into this Japan begins to look more and more like any other East Asian country: it certainly wasn't unscathed by the war, and because many of its buildings are wooden it's been repeatedly ravaged by fires, bombs and so on that have destroyed many of its cultural sites, most of which have been rebuilt repeatedly over time.
Here are a handful of examples:
Senso-ji. This is one of the most significant temples in Tokyo and a major tourist site. It was destroyed during the extensive WW2 firebombing in 1945, and the buildings still standing today are reconstructions dating to about 1951-1973. These buildings are undoubtedly amazing, but certainly not old - the famous pagoda is younger than Nicholas Cage.
Osaka Castle + Nagoya Castle + any number of other "historical" castles in Japan. These are probably some of the most egregious examples - they're ferroconcrete reconstructions of the original castles. Osaka was destroyed in the Boshin War in 1868 and Nagoya was destroyed in WW2 in 1945, and the reconstructions hail from 1931 - 1959, with the insides being tourist-trap museums complete with lifts.
Kinkaku-ji. Probably the most obvious and recent example of a reconstruction in Kyoto - this reconstruction was built in 1955 after a schizophrenic, suicidal monk burned the original structure down, and now it draws so many tourists that it's definitely suffering from overtourism. You can hardly see the temple for the most part, because of the throngs of tourists lining up to get even the slightest glimpse of the (admittedly very beautiful) golden pavilion.
Nijo Castle. Let me be clear, this palace is incredible. The Ninomaru Goten Palace is wonderful and truly historic. While I bet it's been thoroughly Ship-Of-Theseused over the years due to the need for constant renovations and upkeep, it is a structure that's persisted continuously over the years and its construction was fully completed in 1626. Many of the other structures in Nijo Castle, however, are not like this - the actual Honmaru Goten Palace was burned to the ground in the 1700s, and the current structure standing there today is actually another palace carted from another site from the Kyoto Imperial Palace.
Kyoto. Yes, Kyoto. This is attacking a steelman, since Kyoto is the historic city of Japan, but even that's not an ancient city - 90% of the city was burned to the ground during the Great Fire of 1788, and as a result in the bounds of the old city there are not more than 10 to 12 buildings pre-dating 1788. Of course, this doesn't mean the city isn't historically or culturally significant - but as a result most of Kyoto is not older than the Edo period.
There are many more examples I could offer - Kiyomizu-dera is a temple with ancient heritage but which had to be rebuilt in 1633, To-ji Temple was rebuilt in 1644, and so on. I'm sure you can find some truly old structures in Japan - the opulent Golden Hall of Chuson-ji comes to mind, a structure that was built in the 11th century and remains extant up to this day. But as a general rule, most of the structures in Japan are generally... not that old.
This is, of course, not how the Japanese view it. As Douglas Adams notes on his visit to Kinkaku-ji: “I remembered once, in Japan, having been to see the Gold Pavilion Temple in Kyoto and being mildly surprised at quite how well it had weathered the passage of time since it was first built in the fourteenth century. I was told it hadn’t weathered well at all, and had in fact been burnt to the ground twice in this century. “So it isn’t the original building?” I had asked my Japanese guide. “But yes, of course it is,” he insisted, rather surprised at my question. “But it’s burnt down?” “Yes.” “Twice.” “Many times.” “And rebuilt.” “Of course. It is an important and historic building.” “With completely new materials.” “But of course. It was burnt down.” “So how can it be the same building?” “It is always the same building.” I had to admit to myself that this was in fact a perfectly rational point of view, it merely started from an unexpected premise. The idea of the building, the intention of it, its design, are all immutable and are the essence of the building. The intention of the original builders is what survives. The wood of which the design is constructed decays and is replaced when necessary. To be overly concerned with the original materials, which are merely sentimental souvenirs of the past, is to fail to see the living building itself.”
It is a not-uncommon East Asian view that buildings can be demolished and rebuilt and still be considered the same structure, as long as it sits on the same site and serves the same purpose. Many believe that changes to the structure are really just another step in its evolution, and this is perfectly okay - the Japanese answer to the Ship of Theseus is in fact "yes, it's the same ship". Ise Shrine, for example, is in fact ceremoniously demolishing and rebuilding the structure in an event called Shikinen Sengu. But this kind of leads to a bit of weird, unintentionally misleading marketing, where buildings that are barely older than the 20th century get marketed as "ancient", which leads a Westerner to think that the actual extant building in fact does date back to the 5th century when in fact it's newer than some New York buildings.
The historicity of South Korean buildings, in this light, seems not that different to that of Japanese ones. Here are a couple of notable examples:
Changdeokgung. This Joseon palace was finished in 1412, but multiple wars and fires have resulted in a wildly differing age distribution among the structures of the palace. All of it was destroyed during the Imjin War in 1592, except Geumcheongyo Bridge which dates back to 1411. The palace was restored in 1609, and the oldest proper building (the Donhwamun Gate) can be traced back to this date. Other structures date from 1804 into the 20th century, though the reconstruction generally seems to have been fairly authentic. The secret garden, located north of the palace complex itself, is generally quite old - the buildings and gardens have sustained their original forms from around the end of the Joseon Dynasty.
Jongmyo Shrine. This is a Joseon-era Confucian shrine housing the spirit tablets of Joseon monarchs, initially built in 1394 but (unfortunately) burned down during the Imjin War. The spirit tablets were saved by hiding them in a commoner's house, and the current reconstruction dates all the way back to 1601. Note: This shrine is old enough that its reconstruction is as old as the aforementioned Ninomaru Palace in Japan.
Haeinsa Temple. This remarkable place houses the Tripitaka Koreana, a series of 81,258 wooden printing blocks with text inscribed on it that form one of the most complete Buddhist texts ever, and they are 750 years old. The buildings themselves were first established in 802 AD, but most of it was destroyed by fire in 1818 and rebuilt shortly after. The Janggyeong-panjeon (the storage hall housing the Koreana), however, is very old, and while it's not known exactly how old it is it's possibly ancient, having survived both the fire and the highly destructive Imjin War.
Seokguram Grotto. This is an artificial grotto facing the East Sea with a gigantic statue of Seokgamoni-bul (the Historical Buddha) inside it. Its construction dates all the way back to 742, at the height of the Unified Silla kingdom. The structure fell into ruin over the years, and while there were some repairs over the Joseon period, disrepair continued because of their suppression of Buddhism. During the Japanese colonial period, there were attempts to repair the Buddhist sites around Gyeongju (including Seokguram) as an attempt to establish a sort of pan-Asian buddhism to unite their colonies and distinguish themselves from the Joseon Dynasty they had taken over from, and their photos here in 1922 suggest that the statue of Seokgamoni-bul inside is ancient.
I could go into more, but this post is already long enough with the histories of random East Asian artefacts, so I'll move on. Maybe it's the amount of historical sites in each country that are informing people's evaluations. But I don't see South Korea as having less in this regard either, at least not if you look a little bit. There are historic tombs and burial mounds all over the country, including in Seoul, Gyeongju and so on. The Namsan mountain south of Gyeongju alone has over 100 ancient buddhist sites, many of them are spectacular like the Chilburam buddha sculptures. There is just so much to find once you dig a bit deeper beyond the Instagram-friendly sites.
Choosing SK as a point of comparison is also making it harder for me. Comparing either Japan or Korea with the big daddy of East Asia, China, makes proving my point that Japan isn't the be-all-end-all of East Asia trivially easy: there's the ancient walled city of Pingyao that looks like something out of a fantasy, the Mogao cave temples, etc, so many truly epic sites there it's really hard to know where to start.
Note I'm not bashing Japan, again I quite like it and think it's a very nice place to visit. It's just always baffled me the amount of esteem it receives over... well, pretty much any other travel destination. Perhaps it really just is that it was a big cultural and tech exporter during the 20th century, and that's kind of rippled through our cultural consciousness and resulted in Japan being The Place To Be.
NunoSempere
4m ago
Lol, this makes sense :)
TowardsPanna
10m ago
Were fertility rates higher before because it was easier to raise children (to some required standard) then?
self_made_human
Kai su, teknon?
27m ago
Protest in Hyderabad against Punjab's construction of more canals on the Indus river.
This particular bit of news almost gave me an aneurysm haha.
We've got our own Punjab in India. And a city called Hyderabad, on the opposite sides of the country. And I was wondering if I had slept through some geography lessons because I didn't think the Indus (despite the name) passed through India.
I was scratching my head at the idea of why people would bother protesting something that had absolutely no bearing on them, until I actually opened the link and found out it was the Pakistanis this time.
mrvanillasky
28m ago
Listened to some more music from the past. Pendulum recently uploaded their cover of the taylor swift song anti-hero. Electronic music peaked in the early 2010s given how little new stuff we have coming out that is any different.
More music is being made today, but somehow it sounds less creative and generally worse. I am not old and feel like my dad when I say this. My dad famously only listens to music pre-90s since and he was my age in the 90s lol. Art forms peak and decline, electronic music might be this way.
self_made_human
Kai su, teknon?
32m ago
How the hell do people have kids??
I'm a rather pronatal person. I very much would like 2 kids at the bare minimum, 3 if I can wrangle it. Not today, or next year, but starting hopefully in my early 30s.
That being said, I find the prospect of having kids in the West deeply anxiety inducing. How do people manage while being in nuclear families? Where do they get the time and energy?
If I did have kids back in India, I'd have the immense relief of parents willing to lend financial and physical assistance rearing them, and happily. Domestic help to boot. Schooling and education costs nowhere near as bad as in the West. Even if you don't have the family to help out nearby, parenting is definitely easier for a professional couple.
When I look at the comparative difficulty in the West, I find it not particularly surprising how fertility rates have plummeted. I'm all for it in theory, but deeply daunted in practise myself. Especially assuming my prospective partner is a working professional.
self_made_human
Kai su, teknon?
40m ago
I like the idea of Stalker far more than I enjoy playing it, though, to be fair, I've only played the Anomaly mod which is a markedly different experience from vanilla in many regards.
Still, I expect that the devs have probably taken a hint from the things the community tinkered with over the decades since the last release, and I look forward to giving it a go.
mrvanillasky
41m ago
I knew he was likely wrong, I just wanted to hear what others thought about it since I have not been with girls for more than a few hours at a time and no one talks about politics in nightclubs.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
42m ago
It is utterly hilarious if you haven't learned to find misogyny unfunny. (Brainwashed liberal elite, father of daughters etc.)
Calling feminists ugly is evergreen humour, and this time the Bee executed well rather than just using it as a low-effort zinger.
mrvanillasky
45m ago
His situ is not easy though, I probably exaggerate whatever the girl said and genuinely say something that I find funny. Being self-deprecating once or twice is fun but not everytime.
HaroldWilson
49m ago
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1182/vote_118_2_00048.htm
Is Trump stupid enough to give them a chance once more?
I think Trump has lost a lot of leverage. In 2026 there's probably going to be a lot more mileage for Republicans in distancing themselves from Trump, not sticking to him.
Rosencrantz2
50m ago
That is what I thought. Doesn't work for me as comedy even slightly, it just seems kind of mean spirited and slightly moves me from "4b is a slightly absurd reaction" to "man, their detractors are even worse."
mrvanillasky
50m ago
I used to attempt to strike up friendly conversations with with people in general, but naturally with an emphasis on not-unattractive women. Not in a particularly flirty way, either.
Do the opposite, start with flirty stuff around hot girls. Girl issues are normal and I sense that the girls you talk to can sense that you want to flirt but are on the fence. Also if you want to go home with girls you meet, never go away unless its fiarly obvious, no need to be creepy but getting a strong rejection once or twice is not bad at all.
Please write more about your issues. I was terrible with girls, somewhat better now.
self_made_human
Kai su, teknon?
54m ago
What's the passport feature useful for? Finding dates before a vacation? Sex tourism? A green-card chaser? I genuinely don't know the typical use case, or at least I don't see much use for matching with people all the way across the world really.
At any rate, from observation I see Indian women ending up with White guys at much higher rates in the West than their male counterparts.
mrvanillasky
54m ago
Flip the script
Is that from mystery method or what?
You can just avoid shit tests entirely, the new meta so to speak by guys like fastlife is to avoid shit tests altogether. Also you are right about not wanting such girls around though the advice to leave is not good. If you wish to spend the night with the girl and her remarks are not completely crazy in a serious way then you should burn the set to the ground, at least then you would know more about what your own standards with this stuff is and if your own approach had issues.
op mentioned how he would talk to unattratcive girls without the intention to flirt, that cant be helpful unless you are simply building state.
mrvanillasky
58m ago
yes, she knows whats up, you know whats up and you hiding it is a complete turn off. You dont have to explicitly verbally agree to stuff but your subcomms and intent should.
A while back a girl asked me if I fancied her, I gave a non answer and was hesitant, trying to act cool which I should not have.
Quite possible, I live in one of the nice but not elite areas of zone 2. Demographically speaking it is probably similar to the other nicer parts of inner London, low in white British but relatively high in general white population via Americans/Europeans, more (2nd gen/upper class) Indians and Chinese than Pakistanis/Bangladeshis etc. My exposure to the recent arrivals then are mostly through service job interactions and the swathes of food delivery couriers, and the tube. I have practically 0 interaction with the NHS, so this could be correct. Nigerians I think are almost certainly more balanced demographically. Given the huge changes in HMO licensing and rental patterns, I don't think that these new mostly male Indian arrivals have wives or girlfriends at home, but rather live 8 to a flat with other single 20-something men. A lot of the time the landlords for these properties are themselves upper class and/or 2nd gen Indians who extract/exploit the maximum they can from these new tenants.
Take the recent scandal from Jas Athwal, the labour MP recently as a slum landlord in East London. Anecdotally, a property I used to rent a long time ago I saw has been converted from a 3 bed to a 5 bed (by turning everyone room except the kitchen and bathroom into bedrooms). The landlady is (unsurprisingly) a 2nd gen East African Gujarati who rotates between London/Dubai/Kenya. This is quite a common pattern that I have seen from parents of friends and colleagues.
Edit: of course the other possibility is that a similar but gender reversed situation is taking place with Indian women, where they live in large HMOs and all work in the NHS, in some kind of parallel world. But I don't think is happening, at least not on the same scale as the men.
cartman
1hr ago
Hello, thanks for the welcome.
I won't deny I have a habit of responding to the posts that seem egregious to me with rhetoric in kind. This is true. I can work on my charitability.
I don't want to come across as if I'm complaining about the moderation (I think it's fine) but I am a bit confused about the rules of engagement here and would like some clarification before posting further so that I don't get unceremoniously permabanned. If this comment is unacceptable on the forum please feel free to delete and continue the convo in messages, but I am actually asking for clarification in good faith.
First of all, am I being moderated for the tone/content of my posts or for ban evasion as a suspected alt? I'm assuming from your comment that there was a previous user on this forum who used to engage similarly to me and was banned for it. If that's the case and you think this person is me, then what can I actually do to make you believe otherwise? I recognize as a moderator the need to restrict ban evasion from problem users, but from my perspective I am unaware of previous users having similar rhetoric (and it seems onerous to expect me to write deliberately in a different tone or avoid certain topics) so what is my recourse to avoid a permanent ban for this reason?
Secondly, my understanding was that as a new user all my comments have to be approved by moderators before becoming public. Until this comment I had not received any mod feedback. If it is not just ban evasion I'm being modded for, is it only this most recent comment that goes over the line into being problematic? If not, does this comment act as a warning that all of my previous posts were unacceptable?
I'm not trying to be deliberately difficult here, I actually don't understand or know the answers to these questions. I'd like to retain the ability to post here, and in order to do that I need to know where the line is.
mrvanillasky
1hr ago
Time blindness is very very real, especially for those like me with severe adhd.
naraburns
nihil supernum
1hr ago
The charity failure in cartman's comment was that WhiningCoil argues that children consenting to sex acts is analogous to children consenting to treatment for reasons of sex or gender preferences, i.e. "if children can't consent to sex acts then children can't consent to puberty blockers, hormone treatments, or sex-altering surgeries, and if parental authority does not extend to vicarious consent for sex acts then it also does not extend to vicarious consent for puberty blockers, hormone treatments, or sex-altering surgeries."
People can argue about whether that analogy is a good one. But if one person builds their argument on the validity of the analogy and another person builds their response on the invalidity of the analogy, then they are not really talking to each other, they are just competing for who can make their take on the analogy into the consensus by being loud and insistent about it.
This is a complicated thing to moderate because we moderate on tone rather than substance, but like most informal fallacies, it's hard to recognize this one without some grasp of the substance of the argument.
WhateverHappenedToNorman
1hr ago
Not much? It still makes sense because what is there even to be gained by attacking Taylor Swift?
I think a much more controversial pre-election argument to tackle is the rejection of the Dem immigration bill. A whole bunch of people were basically saying "you should take anything anti-immigration that's on the table". Now, there's no guarantee that the issue will be effectively handled in the following years, but it does seem like it was a political winner.
TowardsPanna
1hr ago
There's not an ounce of humor in that.
Any S.T.A.L.K.E.R. fans out there? 5 days until release of the long-awaited sequel. The newly updated system requirements dashed my hopes for launch, unfortunately.
But GAMMA's latest update is launching on december 3rd, and it's a big one. Huge changes to artifacts, gear, damage system. And tooltips that are actually accurate and descriptive, for the first time ever.
This makes a lot of sense to me, particularly on the Ukraine side. On the Russian side, I'm not so sure, and in particularly I'm not so sure that both sides will share an understanding of what is a reasonable compromise.
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