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PaperclipPerfector  9mo ago (text post)   29233 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 19, 2024

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Why can't it be like something like the NBA - where EVERYONE can see that certain groups are vastly over- or under-represented, and it's still understood to be almost completely based on merit?

It’s interesting that the NBA is your example, because it’s an example of overrepresentation that probably isn’t genetic- other major sports leagues aren’t that black, and basketball rewards height and hand-eye coordination- things blacks are unexceptional at- more than, say, sprinting speed or hitting puberty early- things blacks have an advantage at. It’s also really easy to tell how well players merit being where they are, and as far as we know those are simply the best players available.

It’s probably cultural reasons, not genetic ones- blacks really like basketball and everyone knows it, so they become good basketball players and not good baseball players. There might be some HBD around the edges, but most of it is that blacks like basketball a lot.

Traits like height, sprinting speed, hand-eye coordination, etc. are approximately normally distributed. That means even small differences in mean or variation matter a lot on the tails. If we are talking about the highest levels of play where only people 2+ standard deviations out can even compete, then even the smallest differences matter more, exponentially more. It's not something that can be consigned to the margin, it's almost the only thing that matters at this level.

Look at someone like Shaq, he has no skill, he's just a big guy who could bully the court with his size.

Sprinting is the obvious one. Also marathons.

Why doesn’t white privilege from all the fancy coaching help them here? Does white culture really not highly prize athletic performance?

It’s pretty obviously not “blacks just like basketball so much more than whites” that explains black overrepresentation here.

Tons and tons of American white boys, far outnumbering blacks, try as hard as they can to make it big in basketball and football.

And there’s a lot more white football players than in basketball. It’s reasonable to think that culture is the main reason for that particular discrepancy.

Blacks make up over half the NFL so they’re still overrepresented by a factor of four.

Culture doesn’t cut it there either as an explanation because both whites and blacks have very strong cultural motivations for those two sports.

Where culture does tend to explain things is when blacks aren’t overrepresented because it’s a sport where black kids are less likely to have a shot or interest. Famously, the Winter Olympics don’t have a lot of Africans on the podium. The NHL is very white and that almost certainly is explained by culture and not by skating genes. Similarly, baseball has a different cultural situation.

Blacks make up over half the NFL in part because they hit puberty earlier, and this is a sport where physical size in high school really matters to whether you get a career or not. They’re also better sprinters, which matters a lot in football.

That being said, blacks are also more willing to accept their sons being injured or missing educational opportunities for the sake of an athletics career, which is very relevant for football. So I think there is a strong cultural component, and that a key piece of evidence for that is the stars being much whiter than the league as a whole, although still probably blacker than genpop- the stars are presumably a pure-talent selection, and we would expect that to match the distribution of talent more closely than any cultural factors.

You’re forgetting other obvious factors such as leaping - something which involves fast-twitch muscles - and wingspan, which is an incredibly important physical trait in the NBA. Blacks have significantly different bodily proportions than whites; their arms are proportionally significantly longer, as are their legs. Hand size as well. The bodily proportions particular to blacks are especially well-suited to basketball.

Since when does leaping ability not matter in basketball? Which is definitely a think hbd types would point to as a black edge.

From 1984-2022 only one white person won the nba slam dunk contest. 2023/2024 a white person won named Matt McClung won but the competition is weird and filled with g-league players and only one NBA star participated. Honestly looks like white affirmative action.

Obviously other abilities matter in basketball too, but a big one is my launch point for my shot is higher than the defenders ability to block that shot which is heavily aided by jumping ability.

I just have a huge urge to use a cliche but “tell me you’ve never been dunked on without telling me you’ve never been dunked on”.

I wasn't actually even trying to use an example where genetics is the main difference. My point was simply that we should understand that disproportionate representation can come about through other reasons than 'racism'. I agree that culture is a big part of it. If kids in Asia didn't spend so much time studying for various exams and more time playing basketball, there'd probably be more basketball talent produced (though note that I'm saying nothing about proportionality).

Having said that, I do think genetics is a part of it though. Other countries are also crazy about basketball - like, say, the Philippines, and you don't see a mass influx of Philippine basketball talent into the NBA every year. I think fast twitch muscles also help in playing defense, for example. Height also helps one be good at basketball, and I'm not sure how many 6'7 Asian dudes there are.

What happened here? How was puntifex soliciting an opinion from you?

When you do decide to chime in, do so politely, please.

One week ban.

Because the left controls the narrative. Underrepresentation in the NBA? Git gud whitey. Underrepresentation at medical schools? That's racist.

I don't disagree! You should read my question as a wistful "why can't we be treat things that non-black Americans do disproportionately well at like we treat things black Americans disproportionately excel at"?

Or, why can't we strive to change our institutions to be less racist (albeit in the opposite direction from what everyone thinks)?

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