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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   33485 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 19, 2023

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I think more than these questions, it's the vast resources that have been marshalled to save these people that's been challenging me. A quick skim through the wiki article lists 9 ships and 5 planes with back-office coordination across 3 military branches and 4 countries. Despite this, the occupants are nearly certainly lost, and would be so even if the vessel had been located by now. The near-zero probability of a rescue was very quickly made apparent to everyone.

It is interesting, to say the least, which imperilled lives cause governments to move mountains without a second thought or rational hope, and which lives may be lucky to see a dime and only then after the case has been proven in a half dozen impact studies and feasibility examinations and pilot programs. Probably one of the more perverse urgency/importance failures yet, but one can't really go around saying the government is too good at reacting to acute crises.

It’s especially striking given that reports are coming out that navy sonar heard the implosion, but the search was launched anyway. Its not like it would have given away vital intelligence, I’m sure the implosion was pretty damn loud.

Oh, so my second guess was right about the navy knowing but not bothering to tell anyone. Wonder why they decided to keep the drama going for a whole week? Very convenient thing to have taking up the news cycle right now.

The Navy may have known it was something but they may not have known what it was until they got news about a missing civilian submersible. I don't think we can or should look for a conspiracy there.

The military is not generally in the business of giving away intelligence unprompted. I’m sure there are thousands of very important court cases the NSA could solve right now if they decided to peer through those giant datacenters they have.

Very convenient thing to have taking up the news cycle right now.

Interestingly, I had the opposite reaction. This story is only as big as it is because there was basically no other news this week.

I mean, they could guess, but you keep the search going until you're certain anyway. You never want to err on the side of assuming they're dead if there's a chance they're alive, however slim.

It is interesting, to say the least, which imperilled lives cause governments to move mountains without a second thought or rational hope, and which lives may be lucky to see a dime and only then after the case has been proven in a half dozen impact studies and feasibility examinations and pilot programs.

Well, there's the fact that these folks are rich, sure. But you'll get vast resources sent your way for a rescue if you're a collection of children as well: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65871238

To be fair I also have had very similar thoughts about the response.

OP also missed another angle of the culture war - that some of the people in the sub were "GOP Donors" and therefore deserved to die. Just as insane as using reasonably affordable components to justify their demise. Wild!

The El Faro and Emmy Rose are all also pretty well-known examples of significant search and rescue resources being sent and continued long after any serious chance of rescue have long turned into recovery.

You’d be surprised how often something like this happens.

Even when it’s a mass, impersonal threat, we can really throw a lot of resources at the problem.

it's the vast resources that have been marshalled to save these people that's been challenging me. A quick skim through the wiki article lists 9 ships and 5 planes with back-office coordination across 3 military branches and 4 countries.

Well, what else were we supposed to be doing with all those ships for the last 4 days?

It is good training that creates nice PR, it is relatively cheap - all of the people involved are on someone's payroll already.

The message - we got your back is important into building a common identity. And the most important thing - it is easy and requires comparatively little recourses compared to something like homelessness, public safety or low educational results. It is a well defined goal that even if technically challenging is not quagmire.

A quick skim through the wiki article lists 9 ships and 5 planes with back-office coordination across 3 military branches and 4 countries.

It's good skills practice for everyone involved, and unlike many "life-saving" expenditures, if these people are saved they have a very high likelihood of going on to live productive lives that are a net-benefit to those around them.

I mean… one of the people on board was the CEO.

Seems like he had a net negative impact on everyone who went on this particular expedition.

Yeah, but he was almost certainly going to face charges for operating an uninspected submarine if he survived. Even if it’s not technically illegal, that’s because it never occurred to anyone there was a need for creating a specific law against opening to the public a poorly tested submarine where the qualified personnel had been replaced by diversity hires and a PlayStation controller, and the process is the punishment.

The steelman: if the occupants of the submarine are saved (which is nigh impossible at this point) he would be made an example of: his company discredited, he himself fined and possibly jailed. As it is, the sub will either not be found, or it will be found filled with corpses, which also serves as an example of what not to do but is arguably not as effective as having a person to haul in front of a courtroom.

and unlike many "life-saving" expenditures, if these people are saved they have a very high likelihood of going on to live productive lives that are a net-benefit to those around them.

I can take "we're spending all this money on training personell, we might as well give them an exercise in something that looks like IRL conditions", but:

  • this feels a bit callous

  • oh yeah? What are they gonna do, invent a new proprietary smart-device juice squeezer that will lock you out if it hears you do a racism?

oh yeah? What are they gonna do, invent a new proprietary smart-device juice squeezer that will lock you out if it hears you do a racism?

Go on the speaking circuit to present their cautionary tale.

And present a ghostwritten book on daytime TV.

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