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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   32335 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 2, 2023

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What do you imagine to be the tradeoffs of your plan?

What I anticipate if it were implemented: huge numbers of men swearing off financial responsibility for the kids they father out of wedlock. Instead of them paying for the upkeep of kids, the responsibility switches to the government. Which is to say, taxpayers: people who never have sex, people who have sex responsibly and don't have kids, and people who have kids and take responsibility for them. The only people to benefit from financial abortions are men who have lots of irresponsible sex, with more irresponsible sex being better rewarded.

That's not to say family courts are great or can't be improved, but the government being involved in intimate disputes will always result in some people getting screwed, because it doesn't have the capability to get full visibility into the situation.

So just don't fund them through tax dollars.

A child is an expense little different from a dog. Its 20-100 lbs of mammal. Everything else is social signalling.

If a mother actually can't earn enough to afford to feed it in her studio apartment... she should give it up for adoption as anyone that incapable is clearly also going to be incapable at everything else to do with child rearing.

We have millions of competent well adjusted infertile couples who wish they could adopt... why the hell do we subsidize incompetent mothers one penny?

why the hell do we subsidize incompetent mothers one penny

Subsidize is doing a bit of work, here; as far as child support goes, it's a choice of how we split what's currently the man's contribution. Regardless of anyone's level of sympathy for irresponsible mothers, there's no reason that they should get less sympathy than irresponsible fathers. And even if we did want to subsidize irresponsible fathers compared to the status quo, allowing financial abortions would unleash a dynamic that results in substantially greater financial subsidization of children by taxpayers.

And hypothetically, at least, all this money is going to the upkeep of the child. If the money not actually ending up benefitting the child is the concern, you'd get a lot more buy in (from me, at least) with ideas on how to make sure a greater proportion of child support goes to benefit the intended beneficiary.

Regardless of anyone's level of sympathy for irresponsible mothers, there's no reason that they should get less sympathy than irresponsible fathers.

We generally grant less sympathy to those with more power over the situation. We've decided to grant women more power than men over the decision to become parents (via abortion), so it stands to reason they should get less sympathy than men if they are irresponsible.

Oh, so now you’re assuming away the disaster that is our foster care and adoption system. Just have the free market do it, I guess.

How many “competent well adjusted infertile” couples are there, really? Are they still champing at the bit if you slash all government involvement? If you flood the adoption pool by removing all consequences for lovin’ and leavin’?

There is actually a huge shortage of children for adoption at the moment, not just babies but also older kids without mental issues. Children moved into this system would very quickly find a new home.

infertile couples, as well as single people who can't have kids the old fashioned way outnumber the available adoptable children by a massive percentage.

The reason there are foster homes at all is government bureaucracy, and problem children who realistically can't be raised by anyone.

If the standards of adoption were lowered to what they were in the 1890s damn near every child under 5 would get adopted.

If the standards of adoption were lowered to what they were in the 1890s damn near every child under 5 would get adopted.

Only possible if you also have the populace of the 1890s who won't put pressure on politicians the first time a child is adopted then killed/mistreated by the adoptive parents. No point wishing for the laws and norms of the 1890s today. Those are downstream from your population.

How many “competent well adjusted infertile” couples are there, really?

Iirc there’s a ratio of about 20 families per child waiting for adoption

I’m seeing ~2 million families in the adoption process and 113,000 eligible children in 2021. So...yeah, that’s about right. Is this just CPS bureaucracy? I’d think the state would want to hand kids off ASAP.

53,500 were adopted. Contrast the >17 million children living with single mothers. Assuming an even distribution, that’s still almost a million per year. What fraction of those would be dumped into the adoption system if child support were demolished?

To start with, only about 30% of single mothers receive child support to begin with, and surely some(if not most) of those would choose not to give up their children if it gets cut off.

Lowball well over 50% of those wouldn't surrender, and if they're recieving child support then there's a father who hasn't disappeared who would presumably be willing to assume custody in again over 50% of cases...

Considering any woman getting child support is middle-class enough to have gone through the legal system and won a court case... the final number who might surrender is probably under 5% of women receiving child support.

I doubt that any woman receiving child support is necessarily out of poverty, but agree with the broader point that for most, the alternative to child support is being poorer, not surrendering their children.

Bureaucracy is part of it, but part of it is also a very uneven demand for children. Contra the claims of adoption advocates infertile couples do not regard any child as better than no child. There is very high demand for young (infant) healthy children. There is very low demand for kids who are older, or have behavioral problems, or disabilities.

Who would've thought.

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