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What he said was basically paraphrasing Bob Marley's Redemption Song (which was basically lifted from a speech by Marcus Garvey).
Kanye was saying that 400 years of slavery is a choice, not that chattel slavery was. 400 years leads up to today. He's saying that people are mental slaves today, and you can choose to set your mind free.
Nick and Kanye are basically parroting a lot of Louis Farrakhan, Nation of Islam, Black Hebrew Israelites, and similar black supremacists. Did Malcom X have some controversial statements about the Jews that were in a similar vein?
Anyways, I think the root of this is that black people moving up in society start 'noticing' how many Jews there are at the top. When half of Hollywood and the media are Jewish, half the white people in Ivy league institutions are Jewish, and Jews only make up ~2% of the population, then it seems logical to a black person to wonder if maybe it isn't the 'white man' keeping them down, since whites are under-represented in the media, in Hollywood, in academia, etc.
And with how connected we all are, now black people (and gentile whites) can peer much further than before. Even the poorest, most oppressed black person in the US can pull out their phone (lol) and quickly discover that half the famous white people he's ever heard of are Jewish.
It's only going to get worse. This is an extremely popular and pervasive topic in the black community. Throughout 2020/21 there were a few organizations that ran into turmoil as the black activists tried pushing out Jews. I think the Woman's March was one. I think the attempts to censor Kanye, assuming he doesn't back down, will lead to more support for him in the black community. This could end up like when Morgan Wallen (country singer) got cancelled for dropping an n-bomb, and then became even more popular. I guarantee most black people hearing Kanye talk about Jews will think every institutional action taken against him is proof he's right.
"So many Jews actually were hypocrites in their claim to be friends of the American black man, I gave the Jew credit for being among all other whites the most active, and the most vocal, financial, 'leader' and 'liberal' in the Negro civil rights movement. But at the same time I knew that the Jew played these roles for a very careful strategic reason: the more prejudice in America could be focused upon the Negro, then the more the white Gentiles’ prejudice would keep diverted off the Jew." - Malcolm X
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Interesting comparison is Mel Gibson, who survived his cancellation attempt for antisemitism and became just as popular. Might Kanye pull the same stunt?
He survived in the sense he stopped making any movies or acting . There is a 5-year gap in his filmography between "Edge of Darkness" and "Complete Savages ".
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Your steelman captures half of his point I think:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/01/entertainment/kanye-west-slavery-choice-trnd
It seems to me that he actually is saying that black people hanging around as slaves was a result of "mental enslavement." And that this enslavement continues today.
Which seems like something that is either true in a banal sense (if you are facing a larger and more technologically advanced civilization that will brutalize you for trying to escape are you "mentally enslaved" in any way similar to what we face today? Or are you just enslaved*) or just outright stupid (said technologically superior foe literally publicly mangling you if you try to leave makes it not a choice)
It wouldn't surprise me if Kanye actually had the quotes you're thinking of in mind and then jumbled it together with a bunch of whatever's flying in his head and gave us...this. The man is talented but he's an ultracrepidarian narcissist who seems to want to be recognized as an iconoclast who goes around saying insightful things but doesn't want to put in the work, so he settles for saying provocative things and then sees the negative attention as weirdly validating.
I mean, this isn't specific to black people. Everyone notices this.
I think the problem for black people is the radfem problem: Radfems were allowed to say all sorts of crazy shit about men by their side. Then transwomen came along. And they just...continued to say crazy shit about men (why would they change when their target hasn't?) but then had to learn very fast that not all men are equal.
Black people are given somewhat of a pass for saying crazy things about white people and have gotten accustomed to it (some of the things they say about whites are similarly deranged or weird). They look around and see a group of affluent whites and naturally start applying the same logic. This is, of course, a no-go. Not only is antisemitism a third rail but, if we're being cynical, there are benefits to claiming to be an oppressed minority (even when affluent) and so people are naturally defensive of someone trying to strip them of their cloak of victimhood in a country where it's currency.
Beyond that: can we just say that they picked it up from around them? Islam and Christianity both have had problems with Judaism, to say nothing of general antisemitism floating around and black people aren't an island.
* The gulf in tech between Rome and the leaders of the Servile Wars was infinitesimal in comparison yet no slave revolt succeeded and, in fact, Romans never suffered another one after Spartacus. A simple explanation is that it's just hard to pull off, especially without external help.
A much simpler explanation, that applies to both the Romans and the Americas, is that slavery really isn't that bad. Like, don't get me wrong here, it's worse than anything most people experience in their entire lives, it's clearly a net negative and a moral wrong, but it's rarely constant brutality. It wasn't typically Auschwitz, and Primo Levi tells us that even in Auschwitz there were good days and there were bad days.
Selections from WPA Writer's Project collection of Slave Narratives from surviving former slaves
[All SIC, the writers at the time transcribed to the best of their ability the Negro dialect of the time, which was an interesting choice. I'm not sure if it were me I wouldn't write "Hongry" as "Hungry" even if "Hongry" is how she said it. I feel like the choice reflects some degree of condescension, but was looked on as preserving an American folkway. Swings and roundabouts.]
Or consider one of my personal American heroes: Frederick Douglass. From his autobiography Keeping in mind that Douglass was an extraordinary man, look at the slack he was able to find in the slave system:
Now compare Marx in Kapital, describing industrial conditions in England (the wealthiest nation in the world contemporary to Douglass' narrative):
Douglass tells us clearly that there existed white children who were jealous of his material condition (bread available!). Certainly the slack available in his workday would have been enviable to thousands of children in Birmingham or London factories, tied to machines 12 hours a day. What hope did the average slave have upon escape? Odds are they wouldn't even be able to achieve the station of those laborers who worked 16 hour days in a factory!
Douglass tells us further:
Slavery was not a perpetual torture, it was a mode of life, sometimes good and sometimes bad, with sufficient slack in it that a person could "get ahead" to a certain extent. There were happy slaves and sad slaves, lucky slaves and unlucky slaves, hard working slaves and improvident slaves. They had goals, piddling goals but goals nonetheless, they had families and connections, they had food and shelter and clothing.
But there was a ceiling over it all. Mental slavery was the use of goals like "obtain master's favor for lighter work and more bread" and "get enough money put by here and there to get drunk at Christmas" to substitute for goals like "obtain freedom and independence of means" (many slaves did put by enough to purchase their own freedom) and "protect my family."
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As the old saying goes, you get used to anything eventually. That's what I think he's saying, yeah they were brutally dominated and subjugated into passively accepting their fates, but as any student of the time will tell you, they weren't whipped into submission every day for hundreds of years. They were treated 'decently' if they behaved, and so eventually they all behaved. To the point that yes, there were black people who supported the confederates, there were slaves who believed it was the best they could get.
That is the mental slavery. And yes it absolutely continues to this day, and yes you are one of the slaves, so am I, so is everyone here. But we have never been free - truly free - and so we accept this crude facsimile we are given by the government and corporations and all those who profit from our misery. At least that's what I think he's saying. Maybe it is banal, but so is calling fire hot. People don't lose their shit when you tell them fire is hot though.
Getting used to literally being brutalized every time you try to rebel or run (and people did try) is not the same as getting used to...I dunno, whatever "slave" situation Kanye feels he and black people are today.
Sure, you could say they got used to both* but the means by which they were made resigned to their fate are vastly different and it's important.
If I look at the situation and think: "I hate the white man, I want to escape but I know so-and-so got lynched and that last rebellion was crushed brutally" that imo that is not some mental distortion or spell. That is a response to force, not a Jedi mind trick.
You might as well say that a conquered state is "mentally" enslaved.
Sorry, but to me, this falls into the "if it's true it's true in a banal sense". Lots of people are forced into suboptimal political situations. It's not inherently slavery, especially not slavery compared to actual slavery. This is why OP's original steelman assumed that Kanye meant it was like slavery, not that he actually made an equivalence between slaves and black people today. Because it would be ridiculous.
Creating an equivalence between black people who were literally brought to America in chains and black people today seems absurd to me. I find the mindset ludicrous and it leads to all sorts of weird nonsense like Kaepernick comparing the NFL to slavery
Is Kaepernick right? I mean...I guess he is correct that there is a power differential between owners and players. And players naturally are subject to health checks to make sure they are fit to play and they are "sold" but I don't think anyone actually thinks it's anything like slavery and, the sense in which it is like that is so nebulous..
People do say that. This is a common refrain among nationalists, and apparently enough motivation for them to put their lives on the line in rebellion.
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They are. A conquered state is mentally enslaved, else they cannot be conquered. To crack open one of my favorite passages of Herodotus for the second time this week, Herodotus's account of the Xanthians:
Or ask Hasdrubal's wife at the fall of Carthage what slavery means.
Or ask Gandhi when consulted on what the Brits and the Jews should do about the Nazis:
There are alternatives to victory or accepting defeat and slavery.
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I don't think Kanye is talking about just black people, although I think it's truer of them than most. He's saying the same thing black conservatives have been saying for decades, that blame whitey, blame slavery, blame whatever you like, the real thing holding down black people today is a culture of apathy which tells them living on the edge of poverty is as good as they can get. That it doesn't matter that you live in the ghetto if you have a gaudy platinum chain on your neck. That sure, your daughter is going to end up raising the baby she just learned about alone, because her boyfriend is going to get himself arrested or shot, but you made do in that situation and so will she.
To whom? Do you think it's unimportant to a guy whose ancestors experienced it? Do you think he said it flippantly? I think if he said it the same way black conservatives usually say it it would have been ignored like it usually is.
It is a response to force, but it is also a jedi mind trick. Black people on some plantations outnumbered whites. But they were kept in line anyway. Not with brutality, with the white man's greatest tool - decorum. As I said, slaves who believed that was where they belonged. That is mental slavery. Slave morality if you like.
And I don't have any problem with that? The point is that what he actually, explicitly said is banal at best or stupid.
Kaepernick was also trying to make a similar sort of point. What a shame that he felt the need to use slavery eh?
You run into this with Kaepernick too where people defend him because he's attacking a group they like or they like what they believe is under his figurative speech I feel that the people defending both Kaepernick and Kanye are defending what they see as a nugget of a point in their ramblings and absurd comparisons.
I don't even disagree with many of those potential nuggets (empires do have systems to assimilate people and make them accept it, apathy is a thing, we today have been sapped of a certain amount of...I dunno, feeling of control over the destiny of our civilizations?). But that's not what Kanye said.
At the time of Spartacus there was a huge glut of slaves. They rebelled. How did that go? Nat Turner rebelled. How did that go? Plenty of peasants around, yet often peasant revolts ended horribly.
The fact that any order comes up with social systems to take up some of the work of force doesn't mean that force isn't lurking, isn't a dominant consideration in people's minds or that force isn't actually effective.
This is giving me "why didn't they just pull themselves up by their bootstraps?"
I think it is.
Perhaps this is necessary context. This is from New Slaves, on the album Yeezus -
He's not saying "they only like us when we are rich", he's saying they distract us from the pursuit of freedom with material possessions and with racial prejudice, pitting us against each other so we don't notice them pulling our strings.
He's said similar things in interviews with people like Joe Rogan (and I thought Candace Owens too, but I can't find any interviews between them, google just shows me a billion opinion pieces bitching about the both of them.)
Exactly. You don't need to whip them every day because they have been mentally enslaved, the fear of the whip, of lynching and brutality keeps them in line. Even after slavery was abolished. The first step in freeing yourself from mental slavery is to say "I would rather die free than live as a slave" and to mean it.
You keep calling it banal, but you aren't explaining why. If it's so obvious and unoriginal, why is everyone flipping out? Why are you explaining exactly what he means as if it is somehow a rebuttal of what he said?
It is a God damned fucking atrocity that black people were so terrorised and brutalised by slavers that it has instilled such a horrible and depressive mindset into them, but agency is agency - you can only be given so much freedom, primarily you have to take it for yourself. And when someone is beaten down so much that they accept living in poverty, they need to be shocked into action, because gentle sympathy just excuses them from trying.
Like Bill Cosby said, it is the soft bigotry of lowered expectations. And we do it to everybody living around the poverty line these days. I don't know if you are dismissing it as "stupid" and "bootstraps" because you are enslaved or because living in poverty is too alien for you to understand and you think middle class sensibilities should be respected at all times, but I strongly disagree.
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I don't think it's banal or stupid. Compare this quote, ending with "If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” If there's a difference between that quote, written by a former slave about other slaves, and Kanye's statement, I'm not seeing it.
This is how people who are serious about learning from the past engage with their past mistakes: focus on that which is within one's own control, on the choices one is presented with.
You are entirely correct that it's difficult to pull off. That's why it's important to make the decisions in advance, to cultivate the proper mindset, the proper cultural technology, rather than attempting to put it together ad hoc once the fetters are on your wrists.
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