This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This is a classic scam for Irish traveller gypsies to pull. You do a shoddy repair job then guilt or intimidate the owner into paying up before moving on to the next town.
It's well known in Ireland, I've seen news articles about this same thing happening in France and Australia and Youtube has some recent American tv news clips linking them with violent crimes and some direct recordings of travellers arguing with police etc so it looks like they've started causing trouble in the US now.
How do irish travellers make it to the US?
They travel!
I'd be surprised if they last very long here though. We lack the long term structures of intense racism, respect for family structures that combine to produce gypsy culture.
There's definitely roma in the US living their traditional con artist lives. Don't know about Irish travellers.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
The same way their eastern european counterparts do- bleeding heart pinkos think a well-deserved reputation for being scum of the earth entitles you to come live in the US.
Knock it off with "bleeding heart pinkos" and "scum of the earth." If you want to critique immigration advocates or Irish travelers in a more effortful way, you must make the effort, not just drop your boo-labels.
You've been warned about this a lot. You have a mix of warnings for low-effort random racial slurs and ad hominems, and occasional AAQCs, so you can clearly write well when you choose to, but much of the time you don't care. You've mostly gotten short tempbans because you're overall a fairly good contributor, but you aren't going to be allowed to keep doing this with impunity.
More options
Context Copy link
There aren’t that many under-40 (non-Russian, non-Jewish) Eastern Europeans in the US. A few people in tech, some diversity visa winners, some affluent students, some limited family reunification, but the numbers aren’t big.
Gypsies in America came from somewhere.
Sure, I thought most were Roma though rather than Irish travellers.
Yes, I've never seen any travellers, but ziganos are fairly recognizable in a way travellers aren't- dress like arabs with distinctly could be Indian could be south Slav features, talk fast, pretend to be Hispanic a lot, etc. The same behavior from travellers just comes off as normal white scumbags.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
They're not travellers, but fully 20% of my irish relatives are just coming off US travel bans for visa overstays in their twenties (Most of them got 10-15 year bans). It was (probably still is) incredibly common to just take a holiday to the US and not come back home for 4 or 5 years.
More options
Context Copy link
They all have Irish or British passports so the old school method of booking a holiday and never coming back probably still works.
Some of them just hop across the wall on the US-Mexico border, and there are scattered news stories of Irish people smuggling rings 1, 2.
Some of them have been in America for generations and have become very rich through life insurance scams.
Interesting, thanks.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
They probably travel there…. Ok I will show myself the way out
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link