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Man, I'm going to be a good rationalist and "notice I am confused" about rationalists who choose to actively endorse voting at all as a means of affecting positive changes, given the candidates we have on offer.
I do not get how somebody could watch the events that unfolded from early 2020 to now and ultimately decide that picking the status quo candidate is a 'rational' path forward, without it being a purely ideological choice of which 'team' you think you're a member of.
I can see how risk aversion would drive one away from Trump, as he presents many unknowns, mostly in terms of who he'd bring into positions of power. Yet, during his term we DIDN'T have tensions with other countries escalating into armed conflict. We DIDN'T have mass persecution of minorities or prosecution of political opponents. We had riots over racial issues, that much MUST be admitted... but they were centered almost entirely in Democrat-controlled cities and Democrat-run states! The Dem's VP Candidate was governor of the state where that all kicked off, the literal epicenter! What are they signalling with that choice??
I won't belabor the point around pandemic response, but there is simply no reason to believe that the Dems would have done categorically better than Trump, and some reason to believe they'd be worse.
And with the 'status quo' candidates, we've had blowups all over the place, and it sure feels like they're not interested in putting a lid on it, and it also looks like we're less able to for like 100 reasons. And it sure DOES feel like they're trying to put a lid on U.S. technological progress, instead.
I'm not trying to even be convincing with the above, just explaining why my 'rational' analysis is that Trump is simply not 'the problem' with the system. He's probably not 'the solution' either. The case that he is worse than the status quo simply falls flat to me, anything horrible you might expect him to do he either didn't do during his first term, or the current admin is already doing said horrible thing. We are tangibly closer to something resembling 'World War III" now than at any point back when some kept expecting Trump to cause it.
And perhaps worst, if you actively endorse Kamala, you're signalling loud and clear that its completely fine for the powers that be to lie about the mental state of a sitting president or other candidate, to abruptly pull him out of the race and swap him for a different, unpopular candidate without any input from the voters, and prop them up against any objections as to their fitness. Oligarchy just picking who they want to lead, and if they win, it was rewarded.
So guess what, you can fully expect them to do it again. How in the hell do you justify that as an outcome?
And it Trump is really, truly so horrible as you keep insisting, that he is so beyond the pale that rational folks must oppose him, and he wins again, consider why the status quo is so horribly unpopular and Trump's arguments are sufficiently convincing that he can beat them in an election despite them holding virtually all the cards and bringing every single underhanded tool and pulling out every single stop to try and suppress his popularity.
It'd be an indictment of the status quo all by itself. A ruling party not competent enough to beat Donald Trump (while staying mostly within the rules and norms of the game, assassination should be off the table!) is probably not one we should be endorsing to continue leading us. REMEMBER, the status quo we had before Trump is what led to Trump getting elected in the fucking first place!
Yep. Still confused.
This has always been difficult for me to wrap my head around too. I've been cynical about American elections so long that I almost forget why and when someone intelligent that I respect says to me that voting is actually important I will stop and listen. But I have yet to be convinced that my participation has any impact on anything. It seems irrational to view my vote as meaningful, hence I always throw it away. I only vote for outsiders and always as a protest--but I do vote. Why? Habit I suppose, certainly not because I can justify it.
I suppose the problem is that I wouldn't recognize when my vote might matter. I kind of look at it all like a sweepstakes where I like 1:1000 odds but don't bother with 1:3,000,000 odds. So, I focus on school board races, state representatives, city council and the like. Presidential elections stir no feelings or emotions in me because they only exist as mid-wit theater.
Maybe im just so math-brained that i've sufferered some sort of intiger overflow condition but im genuinely coming in from the opposite direction.
I find the typical "Grey Tribe" attitude that unless your specific vote gets to be the deciding vote/change the course of the election it was a waste of time quite dumb. Granted, in any election involving millions of people the likelyhood of the result coming down to a single vote and that specific vote being yours is functionally infitesimal but to take that as an argument against elections and voting in general strikes me as a sign of extreme narcissism and innumeracy.
I don’t think it’s innumeracy…I get how numbers work. If I suffer from narcissism, it’s the narcissism of a cockroach.
My antipathy toward voting has more to do with my historical perspective: No vote will stop America’s terminal decline and ultimate turn toward authoritarianism. In fact every vote accelerates this eventuality. Authoritarianism is unavoidable and the only possible choice is left-wing 1984 surveillance state or some kind of strongman tyranny. The tyranny seems so implausible in the current context of 5th gen warfare, I marginally prefer it because i think it’s less capable of harm.
My disinterest in voting has little to do with whether or not my vote counts, but what precisely it’s counting towards. What is the point of voting when there are no choices? You get death by poison, death by venom or death by yeeting yourself off a cliff in protest.
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Right, it would make more sense for rationalists to offer advice on how to pick a good school board candidate or a good city councilman or a good dog-catcher, for races where the reader has a tangible impact on the outcome.
Literally, offering any endorsement at all on a presidential race seems reads like you believe you're influential enough to make a difference, which could be just a tad... delusional? Narcissistic? I get why Newspaper editorial boards would do it, but not every single personality need voice their opinion on this.
Will you have more impact on the vote than Taylor Swift? If not, then why exactly are you spending this effort?
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Without Trump, there might not have even been a pandemic...because the media and institutional apparati wouldn't have been so motivated to belabor the crisis and keep it going. The COVID Death Counter only got removed once he was out of office. Under Trump, every event got magnified into a crisis to keep people wound up and deranged.
Trump was the one who stupidly lifted the ban on GOF research, so you may be right that there wouldn't have been a pandemic without him.
GOF research was being funded by Fauci the entire time it was supposedly "banned"
Cunts like Fauci, Daszak & co have a whole lot of blood on their hands, but does it bother them?
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I'd love to see a source for this claim. According to Wikipedia, the Wuhan Institute of Virology was conducting research into coronaviruses in bats as early as 2005.
That sounds pretty similar to GoF to me.
Also:
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The covid death counter is alive and well.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#maps_deaths-total
There was one on CNN or some other major news network, that they literally removed the day of Biden's inauguration.
I have never watched CNN but this appears to be false.
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-cnn-remove-covid-19-tracker-after-joe-biden-took-office-1564233
There's a pic of biden's inauguration speech with the counter on it, and on later days as well.
Maybe they showed it less frequently, I'm not in a position to judge.
Fair enough, in the end neither am I. Just remember someone posting about it on /r/stupidpol.
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I would occasionally remind people that Nancy Pelosi was actively encouraging people to go out in public in large groups in those very early stages.
It might be arguable that the Pandemic wouldn't have gotten so aggressively politicized (that was the biggest disappointment, to me) sans Trump but I don't think there's much argument over who was doing the politicizing.
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