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PaperclipPerfector  2mo ago (text post)   28507 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 2, 2024

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But generally speaking society expects men to take on tasks entailing similar levels of discomfort (military service?) and for much longer durations than asked of pregnant women, in the end.

Which society expects military service of men? As far as I’m aware, there are only a handful of countries on earth with compulsory military service, and most of those impose the same requirement on women! American society, maybe outside of some fairly insular subcultures with a multigenerational history of military service, absolutely does not expect, let alone demand, military service of men. This is made obvious by the fact of how few American men serve in the military; I can’t imagine how much smaller the percentage is in other Western countries.

Modern Western society instead makes pretty much the exact same demand of both men and women: go to college, get the most remunerative job you’re able to, and work it until retirement age. American society very explicitly looks down upon women who are financially dependent on men, and mocks men who allow “gold diggers” to leech off of them financially. I think this myth that society demands everything of men and nothing of women is bizarre and clearly incorrect.

Most of the countries that no longer have mandatory military service still have some formalities to register yourself for a draft. And if engaged in sustained warfare that would require it, do draft people.

There is some ideological consistency here since the same movements that wanted to abolish or nullify the draft also wanted to do the same to motherhood as an obligation, but this is just the general consequences of a lapse in everyone's duty.

The army can't find recruits, people aren't having enough children anymore and society is a free for all with no cohesion. This was a predictable and predicted end of such policies.

Military Service.

Mining.

Policing.

Construction.

Firefighting.

Relevant Tweet from EndWokeness who is not a preferred source but put all the info in one place.

The most miserable, uncomfortable, physically demanding jobs are inherently male-dominated. As it really should be, given that the role of producing new humans is exclusive to women, and men have to make sure they have a safe, functional society to give birth and raise kids in!

And here's a response to EndWokeness that proves the point, unless you think seamstresses and makeup artists are critical social infrastructure that are miserable to perform.

Are men expected to "internalize the costs" for not picking such a job? Excepting military service in countries where conscription is in effect, of course.

They're going to end up homeless and alone of they can't find some way to produce value, that is all but certain.

And here's a response to EndWokeness that proves the point, unless you think seamstresses and makeup artists are critical social infrastructure that are miserable to perform.

She's...in on the joke, right? She can't possibly believe that 'bridal shop owner' is a similarly essential job as plumber?

Looking through her Tweets, I'm thinking she's in on it (or at least just farming engagement). Says she isn't into politics, most political thing said being that she stands with Israel, references God a fair amount, seems to like Elon.

It seems she's some kind of digital content marketer/entrepreneur.

You tell me! It sure looks like she thinks she just made a blistering rebuttal.

As far as I’m aware, there are only a handful of countries on earth with compulsory military service, and most of those impose the same requirement on women!

Objection, arguing facts not in evidence. Only seven countries conscript women, and even then they aren't put in roles that are likely to see combat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#Drafting_of_women

Also almost every single country on earth has conscription or a draft.

How much of that conscription is truly conscription, as opposed to a volunteer army with extra steps? I know the Mexican and Russian drafts are incredibly easy to dodge, or at least were before the war in the latter case. I’ve certainly heard that the draft in Brazil is basically a meeting with a recruiter who just checks ‘not suited for military service because of low motivation’ if you don’t want to enlist. My guess is that outside of Finland, the koreas, and Israel, the draft is avoidable for middle class males who simply don’t want to go.

I’ve certainly heard that the draft in Brazil is basically a meeting with a recruiter who just checks ‘not suited for military service because of low motivation’ if you don’t want to enlist. My guess is that outside of Finland, the koreas, and Israel, the draft is avoidable for middle class males who simply don’t want to go.

It was this way in Germany too, up until Conscription was cancelled.

IIRC in Turkey you can opt to spend your conscription period in the reserves. I'm quite confident that the vast majority of middle and upper income societies have some sort of loophole like that, and lower income countries are so crappy that A) the army is probably a better deal than whatever the alternative was and B) there probably isn't enough state capacity to actually do anything about it if you just ignore the draft officer 99% of the time.

Well! I readily acknowledge that I was wrong, by an order of magnitude, regarding how many countries still have active conscription. I have to imagine that my somewhat Euro- and Asia-centric news diet caused me to not really give much thought toward how African, Latin American, and Middle Eastern countries handle conscription.

Still, I think my point about expectation of military service absolutely still stands as it pertains to First World countries. Of the European and East Asian countries, only a handful practice active and enforced conscription, and of those, several do conscript women. While it’s undeniably true that those women are overwhelmingly shunted toward non-combat roles, few of those countries is currently at war, so the men aren’t seeing any combat either.

However you have completely and utterly failed to demonstrate your main point:

But generally speaking society expects men to take on tasks entailing similar levels of discomfort (military service?) and for much longer durations than asked of pregnant women, in the end.

Unless you have anything else to introduce, this statement is just as absurd and plainly false as before.

Please direct this comment at the person who made this claim, rather than to me.

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