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The maternal instinct for the children is mixed with adoration for murderous, rapey barbarians. Personally, I suspect the second to be stronger than the first, but the first to be more what they talk about. Women love a killer, but which killer they love is a function of their social class and politics.
In the '70's, rich white girls used to form terrorist cells, break black felons out of prison, serve as a harem and follow him into battle against the evil white people, by which they meant assassinating black people.
Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat. Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
Post about specific groups, not general groups, wherever possible.
This post is actually a pretty clean example of exactly what we don't want people posting, here. I am familiar with the evidence I would expect you to provide in support of each of your claims, but you didn't actually do so. And even if you had, your rhetoric simply comes in too sweeping and too hot. The tone is all wrong; you're not discussing a culture war topic, you're waging culture war.
You've stacked some AAQCs which have somewhat shielded you, but the number of warnings for low effort booing on your account is getting cumbersome. This time it's a three day ban.
“I am familiar with the evidence”
As am I and a fully fleshed out argument would probably start with the raping of the Sabine then cite historical examples elsewhere (Tribes in Brazilian rain forest, probably Aztecs), cite serial killers getting young hot wives in prison, a little 50 Shades of Grey plus polling on women sexual fantasies and porn watching habits.
Is the goal to write comments that a thorough blue triber who mostly hangs out in places like neoliberal Reddit stumbles into this place and gets the full arguments (leader to long comments) or that 80-90% of the people know the references for the frame a person is citing?
Long form and relitigating every frame hinders the ability to develop models to apply to new situations. My support for your position in this specific comment would basically come down to I haven’t seen anyone argue about female attraction to violence lately. The only incident lately I believe Ymeskhout linked to a Scott Alexander post talking about a client who constantly goes to jail for beating his wives and constantly has a new wife or the wife he previously went to jail for beating is sleeping with him again.
Inflammatory comments and shorthand integration-by-reference hinder the ability to create a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases.
That's the goal--it's right there at the top of the page! Of course, the community is what it is; personalities and culture and such are bound to develop and play a part. The goal of moderation is to do what we can to preserve the foundation in the face of that.
Absolutely! Ban everyone (other than the Nazi-hobbyists with the time on their hands to couch their points in interminable gish-gallops) and you will not have anymore inflammatory comments to deal with! (tappinghead.gif)
Keep up the good work guys.
The mods were just following orders. Is it really anybody's fault that no one but Nazis can seem to follow pretty simple rules?
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Do you think @JTarrou should not have been banned?
If you think the modding was correct, then what is your complaint?
If you think the modding was incorrect, then explain why.
I think that @JTarrou's comment made a valid well articulated point relevant to the discussion -- my point to you is that if you continue nannying people's speech patterns you will soon enough be moderating a forum mainly consisting of polite and long-winded Nazis, because (for whatever reason) they seem to be the only ones currently willing to put in the effort to self-police their speech to the extent that they aren't catching regular bans.
If this is what you and @naraburns feel 'the foundation' of the place is (and Zorba presumably agrees) then so be it -- but it seems to me that things have drifted very far from what it was, and I think it has accelerated lately in large part due to an increase in the specific form of moderation that you are engaging in at the moment.
I don't think our moderation has changed, I know our rules haven't, and clearly it is not just Nazis who are able to write effortful posts without catching bans.
We've been hearing "You guys are ruining this place with your nannying speech patterns" since before we left reddit.
Not from me you haven't -- the frequency of it has markedly increased lately, whether due to the additional manpower on the mod squad or a shift in tolerance IDK, but the place is changing under our feet and not for the better.
Anyways look at the results and ask yourself the question about your rules bringing you to this -- what good did this ban do the forum?
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But, as I've argued before, there is no neutral definition of what constitutes an "inflammatory" claim. The claims that count as inflammatory for you depend on the particular ideological viewpoint you've adopted. So it would at least be good to specify the viewpoint from which you're judging a particular claim as inflammatory.
I personally don't think there's anything inflammatory at all about "women love a killer". Regardless of whether the claim is true or false, I don't view it as a slight against women, or a failing on their part. Plausibly it could be taken as a relatively natural corollary of a Darwinian/Hobbesian view of life.
I'm aware that my view on this particular question may be unusual, and in the framing of say, polite upper middle class Western society, most people would view this as an inflammatory claim. But if "polite upper middle class Western society" is going to be the frame of reference that we use for judging claims as inflammatory on TheMotte, shouldn't we be modding a lot more posts than we already are? Every time HBD comes up for example, a number of posters write under the assumption that HBD is true. But HBD would be considered to be an extremely inflammatory complex of claims by most people in the West today. Is no one allowed to post under the assumption that HBD is true unless they include a link to a list of HBD 101 resources laying out the supporting evidence?
As with all rules, it's the viewpoint of the best judgment of the moderators.
That's why I referenced the specific/general rule there, rather than the inflammatory one.
That depends largely on the tone of the post. A factual and charitable but non-inflammatory post that leads a person toward uncomfortable conclusions is a very different thing than a meticulously-researched-and-linked post that paints whole groups of people in demeaning or derogatory ways using needlessly hostile language.
In this particular case, I would point out for example that while drawing comparisons between urban crime today and literally barbaric behavior in the ancient world is different in tone than straight up referring to a group as "barbarians." The objection might be--"well yeah, but if it quacks like a duck..." and I am totally sympathetic to wanting to resist the pejorative treadmill. Fortunately, the rules are not self-enforcing, and the mod team is comprised of reasonable individuals doing their best to prevent this from becoming a community where one particular sort of person just comes to vent their spleen.
The most we can do is our best.
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This Patti Hearst-type phenomenon surely can't pattern onto all females? I agree a certain type of woman likes the brute (I went to high school with some of these girls) but I wouldn't by any means say this applies to all women. You seem like a very smart guy, so what makes you confident to make such a big generalization?
Aside from the fact that it would be bad, why not?
Aside from the fact that it appeals to the doomers, why?
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It reminds me of women who say all men are rapists waiting to be rapey. Now sure maybe in the right circumstances, Mr Gittes, men are capable of anything, that doesn't mean the same thing. Taking an observed behavioral phenomenon and applying it wholesale as typical is shoddier than even the usual shoddy social science.
So you've got nothing but analogy to your headcanon?
Not enough effort, please be more charitable than this.
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I'm not sure what you mean by that, to be honest.
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I'm not sure this makes sense. Many men admire murderous, rapey barbarians too. Right-wing Twitter is full of odes to romanticized Indo-European chariot riders replacing the original populations of Europe and India.
Allegedly, a lot of statue-posters are actually women (I don't remember where I read/saw this, though). If true, this only reinforces JTarrou's point, only with the political valence flipped.
The neo-pagan revival niche within the DR is also heavily female.
Bearded blond guys with deer horns on their heads must be cleaning up... Hang on, I could be that guy!
Pity the deer around here have even more pitiful racks than the women do. Might have to go on a hunting trip out east.
Yup, that's the idea. The men involved are thinking strategically, the women involved connect with it on a totally different level. It really does come down to the Apollonian/Dionysian duality described by Nietzsche. It's why Rationalism is doomed, except to the extent it taps into the Dionysian while pretending it has a basis in rationality...
Imagine EA without the polycules, orgies, or the women. Rationalists cannot escape the Dionysian Force either.
I think that most of the men who admire brutal chariot-riding conquerors are not thinking strategically, they just valorize virile amoral masculine strength for emotional reasons, in many cases I would guess because they feel inadequate as men and feel disconnected from modernity and so they are attracted to an archetype of brutal masculinity that has the extra advantage of pissing off politically mainstream people.
No, it's mostly due to the belief that a renaissance of European identity would require a European religion of some form to replace Christianity. So they look towards the old European gods for inspiration. I have my own criticisms, I think their premise is correct but a "replacement European religion" will be some AI-generated cult rather than a pagan revival (maybe such a cult would borrow a lot of pagan aesthetics). But there is more substance there, they are obviously thinking with more sophistication than you realize. The glorification of the Indo-European chariot riders is not at all far removed from glorification of Greco-Roman civilization, as the latter pantheon was likewise, in essence, a glorification of the Indo-European chariot riders conquering and colonizing the world, imposing civilization onto humanity.
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