I had to get this done a day early, or it wouldn't get done until several days late. Any AAQCs nominated on May 31st will be considered for the June roundup.
This is the Quality Contributions Roundup. It showcases interesting and well-written comments and posts from the period covered. If you want to get an idea of what this community is about or how we want you to participate, look no further (except the rules maybe--those might be important too).
As a reminder, you can nominate Quality Contributions by hitting the report button and selecting the "Actually A Quality Contribution!" option. Additionally, links to all of the roundups can be found in the wiki of /r/theThread which can be found here. For a list of other great community content, see here.
These are mostly chronologically ordered, but I have in some cases tried to cluster comments by topic so if there is something you are looking for (or trying to avoid), this might be helpful.
Quality Contributions to the Main Motte
Contributions for the week of April 28, 2025
Contributions for the week of May 5, 2025
Contributions for the week of May 12, 2025
@kky:
Contributions for the week of May 19, 2025
Contributions for the week of May 26, 2025
@kky:
This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
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Shaming.
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Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
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Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
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Recruiting for a cause.
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Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
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Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
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Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
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Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?
This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.
Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.
Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
Transnational Thursday is a thread for people to discuss international news, foreign policy or international relations history. Feel free as well to drop in with coverage of countries you’re interested in, talk about ongoing dynamics like the wars in Israel or Ukraine, or even just whatever you’re reading.
The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:
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Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.
-
Updates to let us know how you are doing. This provides valuable feedback on past advice / encouragement and will hopefully make people feel a little more motivated to follow through. If you want to be reminded to post your update, see the post titled 'update reminders', below.
-
Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.
-
Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).
This thread is for anyone working on personal projects to share their progress, and hold themselves somewhat accountable to a group of peers.
Post your project, your progress from last week, and what you hope to accomplish this week.
If you want to be pinged with a reminder asking about your project, let me know, and I'll harass you each week until you cancel the service
This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?
This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.
Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.
Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
Transnational Thursday is a thread for people to discuss international news, foreign policy or international relations history. Feel free as well to drop in with coverage of countries you’re interested in, talk about ongoing dynamics like the wars in Israel or Ukraine, or even just whatever you’re reading.
The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:
-
Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.
-
Updates to let us know how you are doing. This provides valuable feedback on past advice / encouragement and will hopefully make people feel a little more motivated to follow through. If you want to be reminded to post your update, see the post titled 'update reminders', below.
-
Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.
-
Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).
Posting the full text from a recent article on my Substack, about Internal Family Systems, the idea of integrating different parts of ourselves, and the classical Christian conception of demonic influence. Can't figure out how to paste images so... might be a tad confusing. Sorry!
I made a post on twitter about how the negative voice in the head can be considered “demonic” and man, it was polarizing!
(text): When I first started realizing that the "negative voice in my head" was demonic in origin, it was pretty terrifying
As I've gotten more used to the idea though, it's actually extremely helpful! Not identifying with that voice is crucial to positive growth
Ultimately a lot of people just said the basic “yup” but quite a few folks that I respected chimed in to tell me that no actually, this voice was “me.” Thinking it’s demonic is stupid and wrong:
And most of the language used to rebut me was, of course psychological in nature:
I'm sorry but this is a terrible idea. Firstly because it isn't true. Secondly you're doing the same thing that people do when they set up some kind of discrimination between their ego and their heart or their thoughts and their feelings or whatever mental apartheid; all of these will from then on impede their thoughts from thinking together as a team. Because all that is neuronal activities, mental events, all of the same type and they can work together better if they realize this. And I didn't see how an extra helping of manichean supernaturalism is going to do anything except make it worse.
It’s fascinating to me because I do think modern psychology has made great strides. Personally I’ve benefited quite a bit from various psychological frameworks, especially a focus on loving emotions, not shaming them, and learning to feel the things we shove down.
loving those voices vs demonising them may be more effective.
you can lovingly release them into light . vs struggle of resistance
Which is why I’m frustrated that Delia here is basically telling me that I’m wrong because I’m not loving myself enough!
Perhaps the best way to frame this issue is that there are two major religious worldviews clashing here: that of the Christian, and that of the Psychological.
The ‘Self’ as a Recent Invention
The modern idea of the ‘Self’ as we currently understand it is likely quite new, historically speaking. Threading back to the Greek polymaths Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, there’s a line often drawn between their ideas, the Renaissance, and the Enlightenment, where the rational part of humanity slowly grows larger, and the individual, rational, atomized self becomes ascendant in the modern world.
If you want to look into this further, I recommend The Dream of Enlightenment: The Rise of Modern Philosophy by Anthony Gottlieb.
Of course given that this change in worldviews all happened in Western Europe, it means that the Psychological view has many elements that are quite reminiscent of (Western) Christianity, such as dividing everything into ‘good’ versus ‘sinful’, especially people!
In the psychological worldview, the valence is just switched where ‘good’ becomes ‘healthy’ or ‘functional’ and ‘sinful’ becomes ‘unhealthy’ or ‘dysfunctional.’
When you have this framework, anything that turns you ‘against yourself’ is ‘unhealthy.’ We should strive to be fully integrated beings, loving every part of ourselves.
Except this sort of mental exercise requires a LOT of gymnastics to get it to actually work. Like, for instance, let’s say there’s a part of me that wants to smack a friend in the face. I could take the approach of saying “oh ok, that’s just a part of me that is hurt and it lashing out, I should love that anger because it just wants to protect me.”
On the flip side, I could say “no this is an evil temptation, striking my brother in anger is wrong, and I will refuse the call of the Evil One.”
Both of these paths are valid, and in my opinion useful in different scenarios. Sometimes you will find it useful to go down the path of your past trauma, analyze why your emotions are reacting the way they are, and try and “solve” whatever part of you is triggered.
Other times, this process will just lead you through a funhouse hall of mirrors, where you constantly analyze and re-analyze every tiny change in emotion, sift through all your memories for anything with the slightest hint of similarity, and drive yourself mad trying to cobble together some just-so story that explains your “trauma.”
In the latter case, it’s better to just say it’s demonic, and move on. If anything, it’s a far more practical way to live your life.
Part of the problem with the Psychological mindset is that, similar to the Protestant mindset, every new generation feels the need to reinvent the wheel. You can’t just use the concepts Freud, Jung, Reich, and the other early psychologists did, you have to create an entirely new paradigm!
Seriously - mainstream psychology has, just in my lifetime, gone from Cognitive Behavior Therapy being flavor of the month, to Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, to Exposure Therapy, to Emotion-Focused Therapy, to Internal Family Systems… etc etc.
To put it more succinctly:
When you’re constantly reinventing words and concepts like this, it stalls out overall progress in the field. Not only that, it makes it hard for different generations to relate to each other because their terminology is changed.
I can read a Saint from over a thousand years ago talking about the temptations of demons, and understand what he or she means, at least to some degree. I highly doubt psychologists that far out will make any sense whatsoever.
So Why Demons?
Well, let me link you a great book review from Scott Alexander on the IFS book, The Others Within Us. The TL;DR is:
What I gather from the manuals: IFS is about working with “parts”. You treat your mind as containing a Self - a sort of perfect angelic intellect without any flaws or mental illnesses - and various Parts - little sub-minds with their own agendas who can sometimes occlude or overwhelm the Self. During therapy, you talk to the Parts, learn their motives, and bargain with them.
…The second assumption is that everything inside your mind is part of you, and everything inside your mind is good. You might think of [a negative part] as some kind of hostile interloper, ruining your relationships with people you love. But actually she’s a part of your unconscious, which you have in some sense willed into existence, looking out for your best interests. You neither can nor should fight her. If you try to excise her, you will psychically wound yourself. Instead, you should bargain with her the same way you would with any other friend or loved one, until either she convinces you that relationships are bad, or you and the therapist together convince her that they aren’t. This is one of the pillars of classical IFS.
The secret is: no, actually some of these things are literal demons.
Now ironically, I actually think this framing is TOO strong! The Orthodox Christian framing doesn’t tend to see demons as this extremely powerful, terrifying force that must be avoided at all costs. In fact, as St. Porphyrios says:
Show contempt for the devil. Don’t meet him head on. When you struggle against the devil with obstinacy, he flies at you like a tiger or a wild cat... Don’t look at evil. Turn your eyes to God’s embrace and fall into His arms and continue on your way.
Just because demons are real, doesn’t mean we should focus on them and fear them. Doing so is a mistake. At the same time, the psychological worldview is not sufficient for all the strange things that can go on in our minds. Sometimes the thing whispering in your ear really isn’t you. And pretending it is can make you crazy.
Not every impulse needs to be analyzed, integrated, or lovingly massaged into wholeness. Some things you’re safe to look at, say “this isn’t Good,” and promptly ignore them.
That’s the thing, calling these thoughts demonic ideally isn’t about fear or hatred, towards yourself or even the demon. It’s about clarity & practicality. It’s about denying evil the ability to worm its way inside your head, and pretend to be you.
Again, the core problem critics of this view of inner voices as demons seem to have is that you’ll be “turning against yourself.” I just want to clarify strongly, that is NOT my position. We should not be afraid of the depths of our souls, or feel we are turning against and having to crush a part of us. Living in fear is not the way, and hating ourselves is not the way either.
I’ll leave you with the words of a beautifully pious holy man, St. John Chrysostom, who says it better than I ever could myself:
Why do you fear the Devil, O Christians? He cannot force you to do anything. The Devil should, rather, fear you, not you the Devil, for you are clad in the armor and panoply of God; you have as a sling the sign of the Precious Cross, with which, and from a distance, you can smite all of the demons; you wield, as a two-edged sword, the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, which the demons fear and at which they tremble.
Thanks for reading me ramble about demons. If you want more, you know what to do.
This thread is for anyone working on personal projects to share their progress, and hold themselves somewhat accountable to a group of peers.
Post your project, your progress from last week, and what you hope to accomplish this week.
If you want to be pinged with a reminder asking about your project, let me know, and I'll harass you each week until you cancel the service
This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?
This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.
Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.
Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
Transnational Thursday is a thread for people to discuss international news, foreign policy or international relations history. Feel free as well to drop in with coverage of countries you’re interested in, talk about ongoing dynamics like the wars in Israel or Ukraine, or even just whatever you’re reading.
The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:
-
Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.
-
Updates to let us know how you are doing. This provides valuable feedback on past advice / encouragement and will hopefully make people feel a little more motivated to follow through. If you want to be reminded to post your update, see the post titled 'update reminders', below.
-
Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.
-
Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).
This thread is for anyone working on personal projects to share their progress, and hold themselves somewhat accountable to a group of peers.
Post your project, your progress from last week, and what you hope to accomplish this week.
If you want to be pinged with a reminder asking about your project, let me know, and I'll harass you each week until you cancel the service
It's three-something in the morning, an ungodly hour by any definition, when my phone rings. It's not on silent. I'm not allowed to keep it on silent tonight, because tonight I'm on what older generations called "beeper duty." To my generation, it's being on call. I am a junior Assistant District Attorney for Metropolis, and that means I get to spend one week a month on call. For that week, when I get home from work, my phone is set to ring at maximum volume, and when it rings, I answer. No exceptions. Sometimes the voice on the other end of the line is a beat cop asking an inane question about some esoteric piece of criminal procedure because he doesn't want to screw up his bust. I try and tell myself that I like those calls, because at least that means the arrest won't get tossed by a judge in a month while me or one of my coworkers stands there helplessly and the cop glares daggers at me because somehow I should have waved my magic wand to un-fuck his fuck-up. Sometimes the voice is a detective, asking about an emergency warrant to be executed right the fuck now so I had better get the on-call judge up. Those calls are more exciting, but still fairly routine.
This time the voice identifies itself as Detective Smith.
"I see a guy with a wicker basket."
Those last two words give me a jolt that wakes me up better than ten cups of coffee could. Wicker basket. For the last three months Metropolis has been plagued by a serial killer. Infants wash up on the banks of the river in wicker baskets, drowned. The only thing the medical examiner can tell me of worth is that they're still alive when they go in the water. I almost threw up when I heard that. Is this guy him? Metropolis PD has a task force hunting the guy, but so far they've come up with absolutely nothing. Trying to calm my suddenly racing heartbeat, I run through the mental checklist I manage to dredge up.
"Are you plainclothes?"
"Yeah, but I've got my badge out."
"What's he doing?"
"He's walking down the street, he's heading towards the marina."
"Okay stop him. Ask him what he's doing."
What I don't say, but both of us understand, is the razor thin line we're walking. If the officer so much as pats him down without reasonable articulable suspicion (a technical legal term with decades of law developing it and ironing out edge cases) then anything that comes of the search is tainted. Inadmissible in court. Best case scenario, I manage to scramble and pull together enough other evidence to somehow, someway, still get a conviction. Worst case scenario, and far more likely, is that the public defender files a layup motion to suppress, all of my evidence gets tossed, and with it the case.
"He says he's going fishing."
"Press him!" I try to keep my voice low and professional, like my boss does when he's in court, but I can't help myself. There's the faintest edge of panic in my words. Fishing. Totally reasonable. Anyone could be out fishing. He wouldn't be the first man up early to try and get a jump on the fish.
"He just said he's going fishing again and he's started walking again."
"Ask him if you can see in the basket."
If only. If the guy gives Detective Smith consent to search the basket that's the ball game right there. Consent is the ultimate cure to the Fourth Amendment. There's no expectation of privacy in letting a cop search your bag. Anything the detective sees would be admissible evidence.
"He said no, he's almost at the end of the marina. He's only a few feet from his boat. He's going to get away, what do I do?"
"Search him."
It's a gut call. Maybe the wrong call. I'm still not sure if we have enough to search him, and almost certainly not reasonable suspicion that he's armed and dangerous to justify a Terry frisk. In my head I'm already marshaling the arguments I'm going to have to make in court to justify the search. Three in the morning is early, too early for fishing? Probably not. Wicker basket is good, wicker basket on the marina is better, but maybe there's exigent circumstances-
Over the phone I hear a loud thump, like the phone was dropped, the sounds of a scuffle, and then a shout. "GET ON THE GROUND! GET ON THE GROUND NOW!"
"Alright, well done Mr. Monkey! Not bad, not bad at all. You did almost everything right. You hit all the high notes of exceptions to the warrant requirement, and most importantly you made the call to search the basket. You didn't kill the baby."
The exercise is over. I've passed. This whole scenario has been a test. Round two of three interviews for an Assistant District Attorney position. Every fact here I was provided in a three minute summary before we launched into the exercise, or I discovered during it. My interviewer continues.
"The most important rule of what we do here at [Major City's] District Attorney's Office is Don't Kill the Baby. Anything bad happens as a result of that in the case, we'll have your back. But we do not, ever, kill the baby. You'd be surprised how many people get that wrong. It's something to do with law school. Before you go to law school, or you ask any Joe Sixpack on the street, he'll give you the same answer. Don't Kill the Baby. But you go to law school, you get so caught up in these theoretical ideas about the Fourth Amendment and privacy, and something changes. People start killing the baby. Everything else we can teach, but we need someone who will not kill the baby as a foundation to build on."
I smile and thank the interviewer as we wrap up.
It's been months since this interview, though I've recorded it here as accurately as I can recall. In that time my opinions on the Don't Kill the Baby doctrine have fluctuated time and again. Sometimes I think it's the clearest possible moral guideline. Don't Kill the Baby. How could any normal person disagree with that? Obviously you Don't Kill the Baby. What kind of monster lets the baby die? But then I think broader. Sure, Don't Kill the Baby when there's a Baby at risk. But where does this end? Does this mean Don't Kill the Baby, and it only applies when there is an actual, literal infant at risk? How often does that happen for the city to have an entire internal policy based around it? Does it really mean "fuck the Fourth Amendment" and we don't let "criminal scum" walk our streets unmolested? What about those criminal scum's rights?
“The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.”
I like freedom. I think it's pretty great. I don't think I like the idea of cops walking down the street, conducting warrantless searches without any kind of probable cause just because. But what if the cop is right. Do the ends justify the means? I don't think that officer had the right to search the wicker basket. There wasn't enough, not really. No reasonable articulable suspicion of the man being armed and dangerous to support a Terry stop and frisk, no exception to the warrant requirement at all that I can identify. Maybe, maybe exigent circumstances but that's a hard hurdle to clear. Ignoring state-level rules for the moment, exigent circumstances is poorly defined and instead is applied on a case-by-case basis which takes into account the "totality of the circumstances." Missouri v. McNeely, 569 U.S. 141, 149 (2013). Which excluding the few clearly delineated examples of exigent circumstances (hot pursuit, preventing destruction of evidence, rendering emergency assistance) in practice means "fuck it, whatever the court feels is right." But of course, the detective in the exercise did find a baby in the basket. Any judge in the country would find exigent circumstances. But of course, the court can't use the finding of the baby as logic to support exigent circumstances. That's a post hoc rationalization, and we don't do that.
I don't ask myself these questions as a matter of law, not really, despite turning them over and over in my head and trying to brute-force the law to fit the outcome. I ask them because somehow I've stumbled upon a moral quandary that I can't seem to logic my way out of. Don't Kill the Baby. But freedom is important. But exigent circumstances. But no exigent circumstances. But Don't Kill the Baby. Round-and-round I go, never with a satisfying conclusion in sight.
I didn't end up accepting this job. Not for reasons related to their Don't Kill the Baby policy, there were other factors that made taking the job unfeasible. But the exercise has lodged in my brain like a thorn under a saddle. I turn it over and over again, and never quite come to an answer I actually like. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe we're not supposed to have an easy answer to this problem. Maybe the fact that it confuses and annoys and exasperates me is what it should be doing. Maybe I'm so over-educated I can't recognize a simple, boring, innocuous truth when it stares me in the face. Don't Kill the Baby.
This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
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