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One of the scariest things from my point of view is watching some Jewish progressives I know choosing, after a period of internal struggle, to take the side of Hamas. I could see that something had to give when they started being attacked by what they viewed as their own side. And I would have been surprised to see them abandon pretty much their whole progressive social networks and worldview under any circumstances, even to defend themselves. But it seems like many of them chose to thread the needle by simply becoming "one of the good ones".
I think it's simply the case that if you're a typical liberal Jew, you're probably reading sources like the NYTimes or the Guardian that underplay the gang-rape/civilian murder aspect of Oct 7th and choose instead to focus relentlessly on dubious claims of Israel deliberately targeting children (leaving aside that covers 15yo Hamas recruits armed with assault rifles), blowing up hospitals etc. It's not terribly surprising that they'd end up with a skewed view of the conflict.
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It just points to the shallowness of these friendships. Others downthread point to the many charitable reasons people may choose to abandon their self-interest, such as @2rafa citing naivete and @FirmWeird citing personal growth, but you wouldn't have to abandon it if your friends had your own interests at heart. The progressive constantly eats its own as the cause celebre changes, and the it is simply the Jews turn on the chopping block once again. Black men, Hispanic men, Asians, and White Gays will be on back the block soon enough.
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Scary? What exactly is scary about that? I'm not trying to get an own here, I'm legitimately curious because the only thing that comes to mind is that you're scared of changing your own mind after a period of internal struggle. Changing your mind over a serious or contentious issue as a result of a period of internal struggle is generally regarded as a positive development by most people, and they use terms like "personal growth" to describe it.
You seem to have missed...the second sentence?
Unless, you didn't miss it, and "internal struggle" is a totally outta pocket euphemism?
I actually just interpreted "attacked" as the sort of attacks I've actually seen - shouting, protest signs, criticism, dialogue etc. I haven't seen any jews getting murdered or brutally assaulted in the west by left-wing activists in order to change their political views, though I'll happily update my post if it turns out there's actually a brutal pogrom taking place on American university campuses. Additionally, "internal struggle" is directly from the post I was quoting.
'People experiencing "internal struggles" and changing their minds, as a result of being attacked(shouted at, protested against, and criticized by their social groups), is good actually.' is what I was alluding to.
Compare.
and
I am, skeptical, that 'most people' would agree with the second formation.
Ever spoken to any vegetarians or vegans? Most of them would be more than happy to tell you about how much their life was improved by someone hostilely and aggressively telling them about the actual suffering their food choices were responsible for. I personally have changed my opinion on some issues because partisans actually showed me the cost in human suffering of my prior stance, and I don't think those people harmed or hurt me in any way.
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They don’t typically think they’re taking the side of Hamas (some do but they’re in the extreme minority), they think they’re taking the side of a rainbow future one state solution where Jews and Muslims live together in peace, harmony and democracy. That is indeed hopeless naïveté, but no moreso than ‘defunding the police will reduce crime’, which they almost certainly also believe.
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There have always been some Jews who’d rather not be part of the Jewish community. Some succeed, and we never hear of them as Jews again. Some are carried away by the Gestapo.
Every year, and as it happens it’s on this day specifically, we think of them briefly. From the parable of the four sons:
Of course, the Early Life always remembers.
What do you mean by this?
The "Early Life" section of Wikipedia; it's a meme among the sorts of people who use (((echos))).
Right. Real classy.
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