Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
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This isn't fun, more wellness, but I am going to abuse the immense power invested in me by virtue of being an admin and post here anyway.
How do I become more independent?
I speak in a very general sense. For an Indian kid, your life is set out on rails by your parents till high school, at which point your intelligence and diligence will determine what career you land, your college further constraining your options, until you end up in a life that proceeds with getting promoted, married, kids, and then dead.
But I am a homebody. It reflects on how deeply I hate the circumstances of my life that I am willing to throw so much away to leave it all behind. My parents, who I couldn't ask more of (other than having gotten my ADHD treated when I had begged them to), my dogs, my comfortable house and ailing grandpa, with whom every year apart is a non-negligible chance I'll never see him again.
But I lack drive. Curiosity? Yes. Intelligence? A quite decent level of it, if not world shattering. But so far my life has been railroaded along, with my only real choices being to either study hard or not, at least till the end of med school. I did take charge once, brushed myself into shape, proved, both to the GMC and to myself that I am a competent doctor. Or at least I did that as the first of many more times to come.
And now I feel adrfit. I can't go the country I wish to dwell in more than my own, that forms the earliest childhood memories of mine (unless I join the other illegal immigrants headed to El Salvador), I am forced to confront a mediocre life in a country that is in visible decline, hoping it beats the comforts of home (and the horrors of postgraduate training here).
I see people doing things out of sheer tenacity and drive, whereas I've mostly done things because I had to, or because I find the default path unbearable.
I don't want to live alone. It seems overwhelming. I don't want a job that saps me of all my energy and interest in doing anything else, let alone doing that while giving yet more exams.
I feel, for the lack of a better word, broken. I was moderately depressed, a feeling kept at bay through overwork and stimulant consumption in the hopes I'd achieve a brighter future, but they're dimming the lights as I speak. Shutting doors ahead of me as soon as I stepped through the ones behind.
If you think the stimulants help with that? A little, I guess. I wouldn't have made it through med school or all the exams since without them. But it doesn't solve the problem I see of being entirely unmoored, and I am not quite ready to resign myself to this life. Ritalin does not make what I've spoken of seem any less daunting. And the anti-depressants didn't work in the first place, and I tried a bunch of them.
I want the energy to explore alternatives. I want a job that pays well and treats me like I'm a skilled professional. I want to run a house without feeling overwhelmed and letting it go to rot. I want to be a father, and a good one, an even better one than my dad was to me, because he sacrificed his life outside medicine to give me the option of choice later.
If anyone has any advice, please share. My tether, while not quite fraying, gets ever tauter. I want executive function god fucking dammit, and nothing has helped. I just want something to look forward to, a route to a world where I can be, if not happy, content.
I'm not sure it makes sense that people are much less likely to post something Fun on Tuesday or a Small Scale Question on Thursday. Maybe the current system serves a function by making people actively try to come up with things based on the prompt of fun / wellness / question and they'd post less in a 'general weekly whatever thread'? Maybe we should just stop using the reddit post system for what are essentially permanent threads? idk.
It really doesn't matter at all, people post whatever they like in the non-cwr thread and the mods don't care, I've done it before I was a mod.
At most, it's more like a mild suggestion/prompt, but I prefer to use a fresher thread with more eyeballs on it if it is not obviously the wrong one.
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My suggestion? Choose violence.
There’s almost nothing more empowering than learning how to turn your body into a weapon, pick a martial art and start learning it, join a training gym and get good enough to spar on a regular basis. Nothing fancy, I recommend good old western boxing to start.
“b-but MaximumCuddles, I’m a lover not a fighter / I’m gentle at heart / I don’t like fighting / blah blah blah”
Good news! If you’re an adult man*, you’re almost certainly wrong about yourself. You come from a long line of sex-havers of which some portion had to resort, sometimes multiple times, to extreme violence to live long enough to bust a nut. It’s quite literally in your blood.
So, you want to feel empowered? You can quite directly empower yourself physically, with time and luck the mind will likely follow.
You want to feel driven? Avoidance of pain and the pleasures of adrenaline, physical power and mastery are incredible motivators. It’s very easy to motivate yourself not to get punched in the face.
It’s important to remember that you are, in fact, still a wild animal and that all the guardrails you perceive aren’t actually real. And, more importantly that your body means something, it’s just through the modern way of life that most people have forgotten why they have a body at all. Nothing brings it back into clear focus like violent physical struggle.
I saw somewhere else a suggestion of travel while slumming to drum up that feeling of total freedom, and while it’s not a bad idea, the discipline and pleasure of building a physical skill that strengthens your body far outstrips the quintessential “backpacking through Europe to like, find yourself man”.
That guy who hung around here who is probably dead in the Alaskan wilderness wasn’t wrong, he was dead right about needing physical struggle to have a full life and get laid on the regular. He just went way to far, it’s pretty easy to toughen yourself up, you just need regular access to mock battle with real, but mild consequences.
So what are you waiting for? Chop chop! Blood for the blood god!
*(If you’re adult woman, also good news, you’re probably wrong about yourself as well. It’s just not likely as cut and dried.)
Ps- I say this as someone who has fully diagnosed ADHD out the ass and dropped the stimmies a long time ago, and my life is pretty good! So I feel like we have an overlap of experience.
I have an intuitive sense that this isn't true - that doing BJJ won't make him work harder at being a doctor. Going through a list of people I know and whether or not they do combat sports, those that do combat sports don't seem to be much more 'agentic', 'driven', or 'accomplished' in other areas of life. Obviously there are a bunch of directions the causation could go in and selection effects or confounders, but still.
Well, if you define the success state of simply being a better doctor than this won’t help directly.
But it sounds from the OP that they are suffering from more general spiritual/psychological malaise, and I know from personal experience that strong & consistent physical training in pursuit of a series of difficult yet achievable goals does wonders to keep the mind sharp and the darkness at bay.
Really the point is that I’ve found the greatest counterbalance to depression is feeling goal oriented and physically empowered, and learning and practicing an aggressive combat sport is just one of the most extreme yet mundane examples of that.
Plus with ADHD brain, the sedentary modern world is a double enemy as we’re akin to hunters in a world made for farmers.
A physical discipline that requires full mind-body activation for extended periods of time acts as a powerful tonic to lift the spirits. Doesn’t have to be fighting, it’s just the thing that is the most direct path from A to B.
Downhill skiing, mountain biking, trail running, Olympic wrestling, judo, mountain climbing, are all activities that could possibly scratch the same itch.
There’s a reason it’s a known archetype for high powered businessmen or other such high achievers under a ton of stress to lean into stuff like this (or the yin to the yang, meditation.) It works and really takes the edge off.
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I do technically have a yellow belt in Karate, so I'm something of a martial artist myself 🙏
(What a fucking meme martial art, I don't understand why it was so hyped up in the 90s and early 2000s, even in India)
Then again, I haven't thrown a punch in anger in about 10 years, I'm lucky enough to be a Big Guy (for you, and my BMI, though that has indeed has dropped from stress and bad life decisions), so I haven't needed to.
You know, while not quite the same thing as what you suggested, one of the many reasons I wanted to go to the US was because of gun ownership. As in, let's fucking go, I fucking love guns, let me pimp out an AR-15 please please please. I want a service length silencer that both resembles and exceeds my chode, I want an LPVO with all the cool dials, an EO-Tech if I'm rich, a Holosun if I'm broke, tactical lasers with all the fun pressure pads. NVGs so my 10 year old self can feel good about his life, the list goes on
Punching people in the face is a bit old fashioned for my taste, I'd rather shoot them. All a LARP, of course, I'd very much rather not have to shoot someone unless I absolutely have to (and I'm sure you agree with the same in your hobby). But yes, I do agree with you that I would much rather be a pacifist than harmless, though I would wager I am already not as bad as the latter.
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Milk for the Khorne Flakes!
Well, I'm sure the neuro surgeons are ticked off that a mere wannabe psychiatrist has anything to say about skulls, but the orthopeds? They're all about the milk baby, let it flow.
If I thought I was an adult woman, there's no "probably" about the there haha. I would disagree that cutting and drying the relevant genitalia would suffice.
Good to hear from someone doing better. I don't think all of my problems arise from just my AHDH, it's likely it, in combination with my depression, that holds me back. I only take my ADHD meds when I need to something as unpleasant as learn medicine, which is a sad necessity for a doctor. But I do get by otherwise.
At any rate, I appreciate the advice! The quality of martial arts educations is crap in India, but I'm sure, if I end up in Britain, there must be something within the limits of acceptability. Or at least lots of bar fights haha.
That has to do with US-Japan relations and immigration laws. Basically Karate movies got some traction in the 70s and a bunch of aikido teachers moved to LA to open schools.
Hollywood has a lot of influence.
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I don't know what the gun laws are in India, but I appreciate your lust for our gun laws. They're pretty cool. That being said, you can own some guns in the UK. I know shotguns are pretty easy to get, and I think you can convince the government to let you have a .22 for target shooting. It's not as bad as a lot of countries that will let you have nothing at all, save for airsoft.
I wish I had some advice for you on your doctor thing. Becoming a doctor is a lot of work and it's extremely hard to justify throwing away so many years after you don't like it/it doesn't get you where you want to go. I would wonder if you could maybe get citizenship in the UK as a doctor for some years and then work on transitioning to something else. Getting citizenship in the US would probably be easier from the UK, as well.
My man, I am the most Patriotic American who is technically not an American.
Just look at some of the things I've written, without a shred of irony:
https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/s/wU84Yxg320
Or if you want the version on the Motte:
https://www.themotte.org/post/565/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/116844?context=8#context
It is indeed easier for a British citizen to become American than and Indian to do directly, but even then it'll take me 6 years to become a Brit, and my ability to become an American citizen is contingent on my ability to find a job that'll hire me.
As I've been moaning about, I cannot legally work as a doctor in the US, or even sit the exams to prove my competency. Not even if I meet the British standards or complete their courses. The problem is at the root. As for switching careers? While I'm not old, I'm approaching 30, certainly wrong side of my 20s. Finding an entirely new career is enormously risky, all the more because I expect every career to start getting the squeeze soon enough.
See, I am an unabashed tacticool milsim LARPer. If it's not a tricked out rifle in 5.56, 7.62x51, or ideally something like 6.8x51, when that's more available, I don't want it. Just a shotgun fit for partridge or a plinker to keep foxes at bay doesn't cut it.
As I told someone else who made a similar suggestion it's like telling someone who is a muscle car fanatic that he should be happy with a Japanese micro car. It's got 4 wheels and takes you from place to place doesn't it? Though I'm sure you understand my objection far better than she ever could.
Yeah, I totally get it. And I like your writeup. I guess I am surprised there exist women in India that hold basically the same views as a progressive American college student. Personally I live in a ban state right now (Illinois's PICA went into effect January 1st) so I'm trying to learn to appreciate the other stuff. No restrictions on (pump) shotguns, bolt actions, SKSes without detachable mags, pistols without threaded barrels or magazine capacity over 15 rounds, etc, etc. I hope you figure something out. I'd help you get here if I could, way better to have someone like you that actually likes the country than the throngs of suburbanites who hate it.
Alternatively, see if you can get into the Czech Republic. I'm sure it has a lot of the same downsides most of Europe has, but at least they share our gun culture.
I appreciate the kind words and well wishes. It does mean a lot to me, that many individuals Americans appreciate my genuine love for their country, and would happily have me there, if it wasn't for minor procedural fuckups and regulations keeping me away.
If this was a Civilization game, America won the Cultural Victory decades back. I hold incredibly American views. So does she, it just happens to be that many Americans hold anti-American views.
What in the absolute fuck. That sound even worse than Cali, and their abominations. I hope it gets repealed, and soon.
Nobody ever suggested that to me, so I'd have to look it up. Gun laws are hardly the only consideration, they'd need to have decent wages and ideally let me work in English. But I appreciate the suggestion and I'll be sure to take a look!
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I'm going to suggest the most basic-bitch thing I can think of: Travel, on your own, for like 2 months straight on a threadbare budget. Have you done this before?
Nothing else will prove more effectively to you that the rails are imaginary. You don't have to live here, and work in this career, and marry her, and have x kids, collecting y salary. Nothing is actually stopping you, short of having enough food to drink and water to eat every day.
This youtube movie is incredibly precious but has great cinematography and shows you what I mean. You may not be nearly the rolling-exoskeleton fanatic I am, but also tries to get that point across. The first step to independence is reminding yourself that the freedom exists and is there for the taking.
I say this all as a person very much living out the script. I go camping 3 weekends a year and cause my body controlled pain through endurance sports to stay sane. The script is great, most the time, but you should figure out what parts of you actually want to keep.
I appreciate the advice, though I'm not sure it's for me.
I never really got the appeal of traveling, or at least I'm largely ambivalent on undirected wandering of the nature you're suggesting. I used to be against even going on vacation, but a few years of being an actual worker did teach me to appreciate the benefits of kicking back at a beach and sipping a drink.
Not really, the very idea stresses me out! I'm not kidding when I say I'm a homebody, if I didn't have friends or a girlfriend who insisted on occasionally asking me to go places, I would be perfectly content to stay indoors indefinitely.
I very much enjoyed my family trip to Thailand, quite possibly one of the last I'll have before emigration or professional commitments make it impossible, but while I could more or less afford to do something like a backpack trip solo (or at least in India itself), it really isn't appealing.
If I burn out completely, I'll quit my job and pester my family to visit some other place, and probably feel a lot better for it.
I mean, I do understand all of that. If all I want to do is eat, drink and find shelter, I could work indefinitely at the same level I am right now, in India, and coast through till I die.
I would very much prefer not to. My general laziness and risk aversion is only being overruled because I very much am gravely concerned about my future financial and physical wellbeing. I think my job is doomed (then again that's the case for almost everyone). I think India is ripe for deep unrest or even a breakdown (I can't give anything but deeply subjective probabilities, but I think the risk is unacceptable). I see either becoming the citizen of a wealthy First World country (whether the UK counts becomes more dubious by the day) a necessity solely for the small degree of security that provides.
Basically, everything I've done for the past 2 or 3 years is because the sheer stress and panic I feel about the future outweighs my preference to do nothing at all. My family is well off by Indian standards, even if hardly uber rich. I could mooch off my parents, marry someone arranged for me, those are all options.
They happen to be options I reject, in a relatively considered manner, after weighing the pros and cons.
Stress is not inherently bad, or else humans wouldn't have evolved to have it. It constitutes a sign of potentially real danger, even if in excess it is obviously detrimental. Stress and fear has motivated me to do quite a lot, to do much of anything at all, given that I am absolutely not the typical Type A personality you'd expect from a doctor.
My career is probably the best I can opt for, given my personality and talents. I am not bad at it. I even considered switching, moving into SWE or even ML, but the fact that I'm Indian, and the ongoing layoffs and general tightening of visa restrictions, means that I decided it was probably a bad idea. Too much competition, too little time, for increasingly uncertain dividends. What could be better for me? I want money, both for what it provides and some degree of security. I want not to waste what I feel is very limited time to earn some before I become obsolete.
I want to marry and have kids, and raise them well, and be a good dad and provider. You can see that my opinions are heterodox enough that if I didn't want to, I'd buck it like any of the other societal defaults I reject.
It is possible that I am caged by my own expectations, but I hold a knife to my back because it motivates me to keep on moving forward.
I wish it were otherwise. I wish I didn't have ADHD or depression, though I have never known anything else. I wish I was more self-directed, but at least I know I am doing something proactive to fix things. It might make me more unhappy in the moment, but happiness is not my only terminal goal, and I reject something along the lines of Buddhist desires to liberate one's self from desire or expectations.
My post was a plea for help, but if nothing else, my profession tells me that not all pleas are answered or help forthcoming. I'll just try and keep on rolling till the wheels fall off.
Nonetheless, thank you for your suggestion, if all else fails, I'm sure it couldn't hurt, if only to let me decompress for a bit. I have my exam in about 36 hours so no time to watch the video (not that I should be here at all), but I will promise to watch it as the least I can do after you went to the trouble of making a suggestion you consider in my best interests.
If you'll forgive a little prod here - the advice could be considered generic. In many ways it is. But I think it's a better fit than you may be seeing. Your prompt:
Quite simply, you must untether yourself from support and get practice at surviving and thriving when in that position. There are several ways to skin this cat, but all of them will bump up against your nature as a homebody.
Solo travel will accomplish this in several ways. You'll be forced to appreciate the social connections you do have right now, close at hand, once you have far fewer. Once you find your level of actual need and want for these connections, you'll also be forced to develop them, a valuable skill. Perhaps most importantly, you don't have to exclusively travel via primitive camping and just a backpack's worth of supplies, though a stint doing so is advised. You'll be able to find places where you can find a job that treats you like a professional, run your household the way you see fit, and find a reasonable alternative to staying in India.
The consequences of following through on this plan include delaying marriage and family by some amount, spending resources faster than they can be replenished, and the potential that your viewpoint on your life as it stands today could become more negative. You'll also face a very difficult decision with your romantic relationship.
My only qualifications to provide life advice are twofold: I've uprooted myself twice to positive results, and I have friends who are the older version of you (down to some surprising details). I'm, of course, making some assumptions about your ability to solve problems and speak to people over the vast gulf of textual internet communication. If they're reasonably accurate, though, I believe you could do this successfully.
It might hearten you to know that I just traveled for the first time entirely solo to the other end of the country and made it back intact. Not quite literally the only time I've traveled alone, but certainly it involved figuring out quite a bit on my lonesome for several days with nobody to hold my hand if I ended up fucked in a city where I knew nobody and barely spoke the language.
It wasn't nearly as scary as I thought, and that makes me more positively predisposed to take t your advice, even if this was business more than pleasure.
In terms of finding a job and doing something, the main issue is visas. Westerners, especially Americans, really take for granted being able to do largely whatever they want, wherever and whenever they want. And medicine is a heavily regulated profession, almost uniquely difficult to just wing it. If you have suggestions for the kind of thing I could do to pay my way, I'm not averse to hearing it!
But I have leaned more towards the idea of just fucking off somewhere for a bit, more than I was inclined before toh suggested it, so I am thankful for you taking the time to help me!
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I'm in a fairly similar boat. I honestly feel like I have so little drive, desire, or passion for anything. The only thing I care about in my life I'm terrible at.
I would say I am quite good at my passions, but they don't happen to be particularly lucrative ones. Most people don't make a notable amount of money from writing, even online.
It is a shit state to be in, the world is very much built by driven type As, we're squeezing by.
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Are there any other countries you can go to that, even if they're not your first choice of the US, are still better than your current option?
See, the same reason that I can't go to the US also locks me out of Australia, New Zealand and Canada.
It boils down to a single US company/non-profit that accreditates international med schools. Mine happens to meet the legal requirements for India, namely being recognized by our national regulator, but they skimped out on this one, since barring me and a handful of others, few of the previous graduates had any aspirations for going abroad, and those that did chose the UK. This was something I wasn't aware of when I joined, or I'd have dropped a year and tried for someplace better.
So imagine my gut-wrenching horror, years down the line, when I discover I'm locked out of the States, with no recourse short of the med school getting certified, and retroactively too to cover my batch. Which might still be possible. I consoled myself by thinking surely the UK can't be that bad right? But the more I learn about it, including from interacting with the locals, the lower my opinion of it goes.
In terms of alternatives, well, there's Germany and Hong Kong, maybe a few other weird places. None I wish to live in, for one reason or another.
At any rate, the UK still holds some pointless and misplaced sense of pride about its place on the world stage, hence them ignoring that US organization for the large part, even if they're used to verify the credentials of applicants. So that does so far seem the best option.
There might be some places like the Middle East, but I would despise living there, and I need to get more credentials under my belt before it's worth the effort.
What are the reasons you don't want to live in other european countries? While I'm not terribly happy with the direction of the EU or my home country, they do seem clearly preferable compared to the UK. Especially most of north europe has some in my opinion critical perks:
I visited London a few years ago and didn't see any of those things you mentioned. Streets were pretty clean, I didn't see any smashed windows or barbed wire, and in like a week of wandering and taking busses and the chewb I only saw one belligerent junkie (on the street). Probably some neighborhoods are worse than others but I didn't avoid anywhere on purpose.
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Hmm, it is not that I categorically rule out out other European countries, it depends.
Many of them are even more fucked than the UK is, at least when it comes to wages, even adjusted for purchasing power parity. France is slightly worse, Italy is pretty bad.
Germany is arguably better than the UK, even if only modestly so. It is actually a breeze to get into, but I would need to learn German and then practise in it, and while that is hardly the end of the world, the very modest bump up in wages makes it a borderline case.
(Switzerland is amazing to work in as a doctor, but very hard to get into, in addition to language requirements)
What other places do you envision, in Northern Europe, if not Europe as a whole? I can tell you that France is probably a no-go. Germany? I don't see any obvious advantage over the UK, like it's slightly better. Belgium? No idea, but I can check.
I should look into the Nordics, though I suspect language will be a problem again.
But I don't consider than in unsurmountable one, I can hold my nose and try not to gag while consuming surstromming if it's worth it haha.
I'll be honest with you chief, I'm Indian, and whatever grime and dysfunction I noted in London, it is well within what I'm able to tolerate, if only because I have low standards. But in all honesty, I toured quite a bit of the city and it was perfectly acceptable to me.
My Airbnb was supposedly in a bad neighborhood, but there were BMWs parked outside, the odd door left open, no grills or barking dogs. Entirely unremarkable.
It might be worse in the smaller cities, I only got to visit London and Manchester, which were both fine. The Metro was totally acceptable, full of working poor to UMC finance types alike. Nobody but one cranky old cunt made a fuss, it was all fine, and I was there for several months.
I appreciate the suggestion, and I'll take a look at what me feasible for me!
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Can the UK act as a stepping stone to the US? Invest a decade there, get credentials that are valid in the US, then hop on over?
Your success in the rest of the world has very little relevance to your career in the US, as in (barring vaguely remembered exceptions for pioneering doctors and the like), they don't give two hoots what degrees you accumulated outside, at most they care enough to check if you have a basic medical degree, which if accredited, entitles you to give the USMLE and do a residency program. So even a relatively experienced doctor, native to the UK or not, is largely shit out of luck even if they've reached the highest level of certification outside.
This seems to be true after I looked it up, but either way, the reason I am screwed is because my base medical qualification (MBBS) is the issue (since my med school didn't bother to do the ECFMG thing, which is a proactive step and not something they'll just hand out without asking). This won't change unless the former does, even if I rack up an entire alphabet of additional degrees outside. My dad, nationally famous in his line of work, or the even more famous Director of my Oncology Department (widely recognized as the best in the country, or tied for it) would be in the same boat, as would almost any other doctor who didn't study in the US. You might have 30 years of experience and be at the peak of your niche, but in their eyes, you're required to jump through the same hoops as a wet behind the years grad from a US med school. And do another 3-7 years of training, even if your supervising doctor isn't qualified to teach you to suck eggs, you invented them.
If there are any exceptions, they're not worth noting, or at least not relevant in my case.
If it was just the US, I could moan and bear it, but quite a few of the countries that are better than the UK still rely on that US body I mentioned, in much the same manner most small countries are content to follow FDA regulations without really bothering to set up their own equivalents, or at least accept them uncritically. The UK just happens to be too proud to do that.
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Please do not listen to English people talk about England. Particularly online.
I'm not english but lived in London for a while and concur with what he writes. London is allegedly one of the best places in the UK but still sucks for long-term living unless you're either a well-earning childless professional or among the super rich, also doctors afaik objectively earn very bad by western standards in the UK.
I suppose it depends on what you are looking for. London, as visualised by this rather excellent FT graphic is somewhere that is stereotypically inhabited by those in their twenties to early thirties. When it comes to having children, many professional couples chose to move to one of innumerable picturesque towns or villages that encircle the capital.
Sure, I have personal friends who have chosen exactly this path. And I'd maintain that unless you're elite enough to go to oxbridge or similar, you're better off going to another country altogether. The apartments/houses are lower quality while also being more expensive than comparable places on the mainland, parental money/day care subsidies suck in the UK while income isn't as high as the US to make up for it, and the areas are also generally more decayed.
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Who else am I supposed to listen to? I've been following along for years, and I know they've got a point.
There's a difference between earnest bitching like on /r/Residency, and seething discontent and rage, including regular striking, and I have heard much the same from people I personally know.
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Have you considered Singapore? Developed, English-speaking, short flight to India for visiting relatives, great food.
I have considered it, and it's for all practical purposes outright impossible. They take only the top 0.1% of doctors, imagine just taking the Harvard Med Graduates from the US.
Otherwise I would have happily taken it up, it's a pretty cool place.
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How hard is it to get the credentials now?
So far, the ECFMG has been less than helpful, including when my med school reached out to them, but in my personal correspondence, they told me that it was possible, including retroactively certifying me and the other graduates if there was conclusive evidence we met the same standards.
I have been busy with work and studying for the UK, but the moment I get a time to breathe, I'll try and corral a bunch of my juniors and pressure the Admin, though I have tried before, it was only just a handful of us, and I've heard the kids are far more keen on getting the fuck out of here than my complacent peers.
All hope is not lost. I just don't know how much remains.
Is there any way to get a degree with another medical school within a reasonable amount of time?
Is it possible? With enormous difficulty, maybe.
Most people don't end up in the peculiar situation I find myself in, so there's no streamlined route for it. "I'm dissatisfied with the med school I went to, I want to do the whole thing again at a better one" is an extremely weird thing to do, so nobody does it, at most people might end up transferred while in their course. Or study extra hard to get into a good training program, which I am doing, but it doesn't solve the root problem.
I believe even having a medical degree makes you ineligible to apply again, at least in India. Because why would you do that?? And in the US, well, getting into med school is tough enough, I doubt my rationale would convince the committees.
The closest is say, someone who is a refugee. Maybe your med school in Ukraine/Syria/Gaza got blown up, so you plead your case directly and potentially have some requirements waived. My med school is sadly very much intact, it just hasn't done something that is simultaneously expected and also optional.
But even if I could, I don't think it's a good idea. First of all, repeating med school would suck. More importantly, at the bare minimum that's 4 years gone, maybe 5 or 6. I'm already worried about being made obsolete before I finish my full training! There's no way to just fast track med school, and even alternative/parallel careers like nursing/PAs take time, and while I bitched about PAs before, I don't think becoming one is a net positive.
In a very different universe, say if I was to jump back in time a decade, that might be something I could begrudgingly consider, but right now? I'm sure you see why it's a bad idea, at least if you agree with the issue of AI and unemployment.
You could go for a masters or something and do research?
I have considered that, but thank you for suggesting it. The main issue is that a Masters would take about 2 years, and research doesn't pay well, be it in the UK or US.
In a vaccum, I don't think it would have been a bad idea, but for example, I think a Masters in Data Science probably needs more in the way of previous experience, so does something like ML/CS.
They all cost money, they all take time, and while I can grudgingly handle the former, I can feel the clock ticking.
Something like stats or CS could help, maybe in me making a lateral move from medicine to pharmaceuticals, in some kind of advisory or managerial role, but even then the competition is getting stiff.
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