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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   3357 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for October 22, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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You need to work on yourself until you're attractive to women. Get into a long-term committed, monogamous relationship with a woman who can stand being in the same room as you. Your mindset will improve.

For that - as I am - I need to decide where I want the ambulances, more or less; I hope that this can happen without doing things that are considered predatory such as trawling homeless shelters for girlfriends. That being said - and it's gross and nasty as hell, as well as at best morally murky - maybe relationships for the unattractive are just straight up hell and fucking suck, and part of the whole point is being able to bear the opprobrium of society AND whatever shit your girlfriend is slinging. For what it's worth, I know guys that have been attacked by knife wielding girlfriends; one of whom nearly died to blood loss. This is reasonable to expect from people, in my opinion: who cares if you die to blood loss at age 29 because your crazy girlfriend stabbed you, you've been in a relationship and she probably goes to jail or some shit, meaning that your betters are better off and you serve as an example and warning to others.

This is part of why I am going on the Hock on February 13, 2024, in the Alaskan wilderness somewhere north of the Arctic Circle: because I sincerely believe that this is a kind of preparation for a kind of struggle that is considered idiotic and stupid by the standards of my society. Also, the Hock will expose me to life and death struggle, which I think makes men more attractive. It is also going to make me more used to enduring pain, misery, privation, fear, cold, and hunger for no good reason. That's valuable when you wake up in the ICU thirteen days after being very nearly killed by your crazy girlfriend, one leg laying useless and crippled for life, rasping out statements about how you loved her and it was worth it.

Dulce et decorum est, boyos.

Also, the Hock will expose me to life and death struggle, which I think makes men more attractive.

No, it does not. It makes you impressive to men, in some respect, but the fact that it’s completely pointless just makes them think you are stupid.

Son, when I was a young lad, my grandfather as he was wont to do sat me down at his feet while watching a documentary on natural disasters and gave snippets to be reflected on as life advice. Only this time instead of using anecdotes from the life of Hitler- this was in the days before the history channel transitioned to full time alien content, you see- he told me of arctic wildlife, that the polar bear hunts for walrus by barging into the herd and going straight for the one it wants, and that this attitude would be relevant to me later on. As he had learned to enjoy accounting, it is worth listening to him speak about attitude.

Imitate polar bears in your dating life in ways other than wandering about in northern Alaska in February, is my point. You are probably less likely to get stabbed this way than you are to be gored by a musk ox in ‘the hock’. You might want to try being normal(which certainly sounds like it would entail being like 50% more aggressive and 50% less neurotic than you currently are) because the grizzly man Schtick won’t fix your problems- ordinary problems require ordinary solutions. Like just asking a girl out, consequences be damned. You’re a grad student, you must know at least a few in person.

Last Christmas I watched the film Wild (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_(2014_film)) with my family, based on the memoir of the same name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_(memoir)) by Cheryl Strayed. The film concerns Strayed's successful attempt to hike 1,100 miles of the Pacific Crest Trail, solo. I didn't like the film for many reasons: its narrative structure (hiking interspersed with flashbacks) was monotonous; the dialogue was overwritten and stagey; the performances were of greatly varying quality; and what little CGI it used was unconvincing and distracting.

But the biggest reason I didn't like it was because I really disliked the protagonist. The death of Strayed's mother caused her to spiral into a deep depression, which she coped with by using heroin and having unprotected sex with strange men, despite being married. After one of these illicit trysts she gets pregnant, she decides to terminate the pregnancy, her husband (finally!) realises he's had enough and divorces her. At this point she realises she's hit rock bottom, prompting her to embark on her hike as a therapeutic exercise (explaining to an exasperated friend: "I'm going to walk myself back to the person my mother thought I was!").

And I just found her motivation and conception of herself so grandiose and narcissistic - the idea that her personal problems are of such profound import that the only way she can address them is by walking 1,100 miles, alone - that I couldn't stand her. Even when she correctly recognises that she's a piece of shit, she still thinks she's a piece of shit in a rather grand, exceptional way - a Mary Sue who's a villain is still a Mary Sue. Like, if you've (finally!) realised that it's wrong to cheat on your husband with strange men (and grief over your mother's death does absolutely nothing to exculpate you) - sure, you absolutely could try to address this by hiking 1,100 miles alone with little to no expertise, and potentially endangering other people who may have to come looking for you if you injure yourself.

Or you could, I dunno, not cheat on your husband, you stupid bitch.

Most of us go through our lives quietly toiling away at doing the right thing, not expecting or receiving any special praise for doing so. When we realise we've fucked up, we quietly toil away at trying to put things right. Most of us have the self-awareness to recognise that our personal problems are not huge, all-encompassing things which require extraordinary, dramatic efforts to rectify; for most people, their personal problems are ordinary and mundane, and can (must) be resolved or managed with ordinary, mundane graft. Cheryl Strayed can't even claim that the root of her personal problems is a traumatic event outside the realm of normal human experience (like being raped or horribly maimed; even having a miscarriage or a cot death would have been more sympathetic) - the death of one's mother is deeply upsetting, but unfortunately, it's something that the vast majority of people in the world will go through at one time or another. If everyone dealt with the death of their mother by abandoning their duties and embarking on a hike for three months - why, the Pacific Crest Trail would be clogged with people denser than Times Square and society would collapse. Strayed dealt with the grief over her mother's death by i) ruining her husband's life; ii) conceiving a child and then aborting it; iii) going on a long hike; iv) writing a book about her experience which made her millions (and she still had the nerve to complain that the film adaptation wasn't nominated for Best Picture and accusing the Academy of sexism). Most people take a few weeks off work and deal with their bereavement privately, with dignity. "But you don't understand, I had a really close bond with my mother!" - well, so did the Hispanic binman who collects your rubbish, Cheryl, who can't afford to take three months off work, because he has to put food on the table for his (un-aborted) children and (un-cuckqueaned) wife. It's the height of narcissism and self-absorption, perhaps even clinically significant delusions of grandeur.

I imagine you can guess where I'm going with this. You've been talking about this "hock" thing for at least a few weeks. You seem to expect us to be impressed by your plan to do this - well, I'm no more impressed by hearing about people's plans to complete punishing physical ordeals than I am by hearing about the idea someone has for a novel: the execution is the thing. ("Oh my God, you're thinking about running a marathon?! That's amazing! You're so disciplined and dedicated for thinking about doing one! And here I am actually running one like a sucker!") But more than anything I just find your motivation for doing it contemptible in exactly the same way as Strayed. You think you're the first guy in history to ever feel lonely or romantically frustrated? You think the only way you can deal with your personal problems is to embark on some punishing attention-seeking voyage? In your circumstances, most people just practise their people skills, improve their diet, go to the gym and perhaps attend a therapist if applicable - and they (we) do so quietly, with dignity, without any expectation of praise or commendation.

If you're lonely and romantically frustrated, I'm sorry to hear that, I've been there and it sucks. But whining about it on a forum is not going to help you, especially not when you rubbish all of the well-meaning and practical advice offered in reply (all of which that I've seen is more sensible and likely to help the issue than "go to Alaska alone"). If you want to do your "hock" thing, go for it, but don't delude yourself into thinking that it will magically resolve all of your personal problems in one fell swoop - wherever you go, there you are. And for God's sake, stop telling us about how you're going to do it and expecting us to be impressed in advance by your resolve and determination. Prepare for it in your own time, complete it, then you can feel proud of your accomplishment, and perhaps even write a postmortem about what you got out of the experience.

Counterargument: if every lonely individual chucked themselves in the Alaskan wilderness - leaving instructions to not look for the body or attempt rescue - there would be a lot more determined people in the world and a lot less lonely people. Yeah, it's nuts. Yes, it's dumb as hell; the risible idiocy fundamental to the Hock is, in my opinion, part of the whole fucking point of the Hock.

I don't even know how to talk to you. It's like you're not even reading anything anyone is saying to you, just using their responses as opportunities to whine and pontificate.

The pontification is an ad Hock commentary for posterity if I don't make it. Could just be the writings of a dumb jackass, but whatever. Am probably going to write a blog about this whole hock crap. I have been training and preparing in good faith for this journey.

Congratulations on your epic roast making the Quality Contributions list, though.

I would greatly appreciate if you would stop being a dumb jackass for five minutes and respond to my sincere request of a couple of days ago. Feel free to respond in DM if you're embarrassed.

Congratulations on your epic roast making the Quality Contributions list, though.

Thank you, although it was intended as well-meaning criticism borne of concern.

I look forward to reading about your story in next-year's newspapers.

I gather that you are not terribly optimistic about my chances of surviving the Hock.

I'm sorry: that joke was in bad taste. I don't want you to die. But in all seriousness your odds are less than 100%. People have died doing this. Is that the point of your hock?

I think you're just rationalizing reasons to run away. The real Hock is trying to meet women and getting turned down seemingly-endlessly. It's torture, and I can understand why you'd flinch away from that prospect to construct elaborate fantasies that involve becoming a wilderness mountain man.

But please work on yourself. Find some resources for how to attract women. And please don't post about here until you've found yourself a good woman.

But in all seriousness your odds are less than 100%. People have died doing this. Is that the point of your hock?

yeschad.jpg; the Hock is basically my homebrew substitute for war with far less potential for moral injury and far less potential to live as a horribly maimed cripple; the Hock provideth through victory or death. Like Everest or even K2: most people that attempt it either come back more or less in one piece, or not at all.

The real Hock is trying to meet women and getting turned down seemingly-endlessly. It's torture

Probably a good deal less torturous than a 100-mile solo ski journey through the Alaskan wilderness in temperatures that may be colder than 40 below zero, staring your own death in the face.

elaborate fantasies

Elaborate fantasies, my left foot. If all goes according to plan, I'll start the Hock at dawn on February 13, 2024. If you do not hear back from me by April 1, I have most likely died in the Alaskan wilderness; I will have left instructions for my next of kin and anyone that would search for or attempt to rescue me to NOT endanger themselves and expend resources by attempting to recover me, dead or alive. These writings are at least partially something that would explain or describe for posterity the thought processes of Skookum, the First Hockmaxxer, if he dies on his most excellent adventure. I know I'm maybe three parts Chris McCandless to one Don Quixote, but hey, what the hell...

Do I need to post proof that I am in possession of a one-way plane ticket to Fairbanks?

Do I need to post proof that I am in possession of a one-way plane ticket to Fairbanks?

Yes. Tix or GTFO.

These writings are at least partially something that would explain or describe for posterity the thought processes of Skookum, the First Hockmaxxer, if he dies on his most excellent adventure. I know I'm maybe three parts Chris McCandless to one Don Quixote, but hey, what the hell...

Well, for posterity's sake: I'd love to talk this guy out of it, but my best effort was going to be something like "do you realize you're maybe three parts Chris McCandless and one part Don Quixote", and if that's a dud I really don't know where to go from here.

I still miss trhurler's comments.

Try ‘have you considered that actually trying to date women you know would be a big improvement on this incel Ted k knockoff schizo larping’

larp

I suppose it's a LARP until and unless skis touch snow north of the Arctic Circle?

Oh dear, the motte is going to be subjected to media scrutiny as part of the fallout.

I mean...several things need to happen.

  1. I need to die on the Hock.

  2. They need to connect my frozen corpse to the Motte.

  3. There needs to be at least a small media circus around the dumbass that thought this was a good idea and that he could survive.

Some dumbass dies trying to climb a mountain or something without proper equipment, and it's basically local news.

Fantasy doesn't mean you won't do it. It's just that you're getting all worked up about about a 7-week(?) trek in the woods and somehow that will define your personality. Spare me.

I don't know. I feel as if the process of training in earnest for the Hock is already paying dividends in the form of better and healthier habits. It's still early days yet, but I am working out more and being more organized, which is something I've often struggled with. I'm more conscientious, I think, and maybe slightly less neurotic, too. Seriously considering the prospect that you may be a frozen corpse in four months' time seems to have that effect.

On whether or not Hocks work: I have heard it said that if Hocks worked, Hocking would be normal; my counterargument is that Hocks work reasonably often, but they're expensive as hell in blood and treasure and so not usually worth it. For me...I feel deep down in my bones that if I survive this, I'll finally be average in terms of grit, determination, and willpower. Also, I might still be disgusting, unattractive, etc. after this, but one thing I won't be is a hypocrite. My father was a peacetime military officer, and he always told me that an officer should never ask his men to do something that he is not willing to do himself. If I'm asking someone to endure a bunch of pain and shit for a basically pointless reason - even if I do my very best, no matter how much lipstick you put on a hog it's still a hog - then I damn well ought to be able and willing to do the same.

Will define?

Do I need to post proof that I am in possession of a one-way plane ticket to Fairbanks?

I am also still waiting for a picture that proves your irrecoverable unattractiveness.

I am also still waiting for a picture that proves your irrecoverable unattractiveness.

While I'm solidly below average physically, I'm no Quasimodo. The unattractiveness isn't the kind that can be readily captured in still photos.

For an extreme example, consider Elliot Rodger. Was it his physical appearance that was the problem?

Was it his physical appearance that was the problem?

No, it was his social awkwardness, introversion, lack of people skills and narcissistic entitlement - his physical appearance had essentially nothing to do with his loneliness. I very much doubt going to Alaska for however long would have helped him with any of the above.

If he cooked up anything that was hock like, he would definitely not have the same type of narcissistic entitlement. Supreme Gentlemen are already Supreme and so don't need to fucking Hockmaxx.

More comments

The unattractiveness isn't the kind that can be readily captured in still photos.

https://www.themotte.org/post/485/wellness-wednesday-for-may-10-2023/100343?context=8#context

I talk about being unattractive. My physical appearance is...20th percentile, I'd say. Not Quasimodo, but not at all good. Add autism to that, and it's not looking good at all. I will contend that autism functions in more or less the same way as physical deformity or ugliness. Someone could watch me talking with my friends and form a durable opinion on my awkwardness after just a couple seconds. A single still photo would be enough.

Okay, it's not unattractiveness, but awkwardness leading to unattractiveness.

Still, pics or it didn't happen.

Do I need to post proof that I am in possession of a one-way plane ticket to Fairbanks?

I think that would be best.

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