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Then women must stop rewarding these behaviors. If you want to actually impose change from on high, your authority has to somehow punish Stacey when she accepts a date with Chad after she turned him down the first time. Just telling men that 'no means never' isn't going to work if they see that guys who get laid are being persistent and guys who aren't persistent don't get laid.
I'm not going to deny that lying, manipulation, and harassing women get men laid. That's been well documented. But if you think that manipulating, lying to, and harassing women is fine as long as it gets you sex, maybe... just maybe... you're the reason Australia is considering this
lawregulation.I'm going to take a step back here: Earlier today, I listened to a podcast on the Free Press, Bari Weiss' site. It was called Are we living through end times?, and was about the signs of social unrest that precede revolution. Our time has many of them. One of the primary signs of impending revolution is “emmiseration of the masses”. One of the things that happens during this emisseration is that people start to see that although their ancestors were able to achieve success playing by the rules, they can't anymore. They come to believe they now have to cheat their way to the top. And indeed, the cheaters win. They win in politics, they win in college admissions, they win at tests, and although the podcast did not address this... they now win in the bedroom too.
But a society cannot function if only cheaters can win. The entire system breaks down. And indeed, our whole sexual system is breaking down. 25% of 40 year olds have never been married, and 6/10 men in their 20s are single. Our birth rate is the lowest it's ever been. The situation is not better for women. I can't find the articles I wanted to cite here, so instead I'll link to an account by a university professor of the confusion she and her students feel when they are told they ought to feel happy about sexual encounters they found exploitative and upsetting. Note that it often takes women years to figure out why they felt used. Do you think Stacy likes it when Chad pushes her boundaries until she has sex with him?
The only winners in today's sexual culture are the small percentage of men who can have dozens of sex partners while an increasing number of men have none at all. We are in the middle of a sexual apocalypse, and we have got to find a way to reverse it.
This bill is an attempt to get men to play by the rules again. There have always been cheaters, but the costs of hurting women were too high for most men when the women they dated were their friends' sisters or people who were going to be in their social circles for years. Now that men can date women none of their friends know, whom they can arrange to never see again, and have a society gaslighting women into thinking casual sex is empowering, men can use underhanded tactics like these to gain an unfair advantage over other men. This is bad for women, it's bad for honest men, it's bad for men who resort to them to compete, and it's really really bad for society. When liars and manipulators win, it corrodes our culture's soul.
We can't function like this. This
lawregulation isn't the answer. Other posters are right that the worst offenders will find ways to slip through. This law is a bandaid slapped on a hemorrhaging amputated arm. Our sex culture needs a deeper culture change in order to work for most people again, but we have to find a way to fix this! Our whole future is riding on it.I'm behind you on "manipulating" and "lying". On "harassing"... I think you may be looking at the problem backwards. I think the stigmatisation of deep love is part of what you correctly decry here, and I think rolling that back in law but also in culture is a necessary part of any reversal. Say what you will about stalkers, they're about the least-likely people to cheat on you.
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I agree with most everything you say but the way you phrase certain things, as exemplified by the 'triggered' @Folamh3 reply you got, undermines it and makes it seem like you are coming from a point that completely misunderstands why these problems arise to begin with. At least as far as it relates to what I assume is a popular opinion here; that society changed in this way to a large extent because of women's empowerment.
Now, I think it would behoove us, instead of blaming some vague thing like 'society', to recognize just what happened. Why were things allowed to change to begin with? Why didn't the men, who then had power, stop it?
The verbiage in your post is steeped in the sort of meaning that feels similar to what one would hear from a lone brave professor who decided to teach the first woman who attended his lectures despite all the men in the class leaving in protest. Or the rhetoric of a universalist 'egalitarian'.
"Fairness."
"Our future"
There are no 'fair' solutions to this problem. The very idea of 'fairness' and 'equality' between men and women was part of what created it. There is no 'us'. The only 'working' societies in the world subjugate women. The universe does not owe anyone who wanders outside of that dynamic a solution to their self inflicted problems.
To that end, regardless of how highly you think of your post, I don't think you are saying a lot. The impression I get from reading it, for whatever that is worth, is that the drowning mans salvation lies at the bottom of the ocean.
Outside of that I am all ears to an actual solution to this problem that doesn't come from Catholic neo-reactionaries and the like.
Wow I can't remember the last time someone accused me of being "triggered" by something.
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Nice way to pass the buck there, blaming this on "society" rather than "feminist media".
This is antagonistic and a bit low effort. Do less of this please.
Understood, apologies.
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It's not a law! No one is considering a law!
"You do this thing we want you to do 'voluntarily' or we'll do it for you" is the most transparent of fig leaves. That it's regulation by threat rather than code doesn't make it less de facto required.
I mean, I wouldn't even call it a fig leaf. There's no pretense the government isn't driving this. They had an announcement and everything.
But it remains the fact that there is no law being proposed and this remains an important distinction! The government is saying "hey we think this is a problem, come up with some ways to address it". So yes, it is compelling action. But it is allowing the apps to decide themselves on the specific action, it is not imposing penalties for breaches, and it is not putting legislation in place that will endure beyond the term of the current Minister. This is the lightest of light touches.
I agree with you that this is currently not actually a law, but I think you are being slightly dishonest when you claim that "No one is considering a law!" - this is the sort of action which frequently precedes legislation on the topic, as the problems the code is meant to address remain unaddressed. I find it hard to believe that even the most ardent supporter of a code like this actually believes that it will do anything at all to fix the problem of men continuing to propose alternatives when their first data idea gets shot down.
No, it isn't. I challenge you to provide me with even one example.
The New Media bargaining code is what I was thinking of specifically.
How is that similar? In that case the government tasked the ACCC with developing a mandatory code. They didn't ask Facebook and Google to develop a voluntary one.
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right-o. regulation. So law by a non-lawmaking agency. I'll update my post accordingly.
(Despite the sarcasm, genuine thanks)
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I entirely agree. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone is willing to make the compromises that are necessary to solve this problem, because even suggesting most of them is taboo. There will need to be a technological solution or natural selection will eventually solve us for it.
What does natural selection solving it for us look? An Amish and Muslim future?
Don't forget the Quiverfull evangelicals!
I absolutelt endorse this future
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Laws catch the little sharks while the big ones just bull through. Maybe this is a feature designed to catch horny persistent careless-at-best individuals that aren't Chad.
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I'm not Australian, so it's not likely. But "lying" and manipulation and "harassment" (that is to say, not taking 'no' or even just evasiveness as 'never') have been part of the human mating dance at least since language was invented. Probably before.
That is correct. But what these rules do is empower cheaters more. The normal guy who is just trying to respond to an intentionally ambiguous situation is discouraged or punished. Chad, being Chad, doesn't care and does what he always does. And usually gets away with it.
Yes she does. Perhaps years later after Chad #5 or #10 or more she realizes that chasing that feeling was unwise, but at the time she loved it. And she put up barriers specifically to filter out men who wouldn't push them.
It can't fix the incentive structure. It can punish men who do things likely to get them sex, but all that does is empower even more the most brazen ones who for whatever reason can get away with it (i.e. Chad). It can force men out of the game, but the only way to get men to play by "the rules" is if playing by "the rules" can actually result in success.
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