The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:
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Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.
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Updates to let us know how you are doing. This provides valuable feedback on past advice / encouragement and will hopefully make people feel a little more motivated to follow through. If you want to be reminded to post your update, see the post titled 'update reminders', below.
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Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.
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Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).
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My interest in being around other people and socializing is nearing an all-time low. I feel like I’m far more motivated by logic/rationality/truth-seeking/optimization than the people I meet in person. I also seem to care far less about social approval than the people I meet. I’m just not motivated or energized enough to play the social games to get positive attention IRL and social media likes. A lot of interactions just seem like I’m pretending to be interested in something so the person I’m interacting with can pretend to like me. Consequently, I don’t have very many friends and my career progress is slower than the people I graduated with.
I’m not motivated much by work anymore because even when I improve something and do an excellent job it doesn’t get me very far. I see people put way less effort and thought into things but they get promotions because they are good at playing the social games/office politics.
Outside of a few places on the internet, like here, I don’t feel like there are many spaces that I can have conversations that are intellectually stimulating to me. Most people just aren’t interested in discussing rationality concepts or contrarian ideas.
How can I become more interested in socializing with other people and playing the social games? I’m currently content spending a lot of time in solitude, but I feel like eventually this lifestyle will take a toll on my mental health. It is already causing me to become more cynical and jaded about humanity.
You're interested in rationality right? You could treat this as an experiment and try the other thing.
If you are demotivated from your work due to bad returns due to self-admitted bad strategy, maybe you should change your strategy and see if returns help your motivation? Maybe you should try to figure out what social games people are playing and try to adopt their best practices and see where you are in a bit.
It's like exercise and depression: maybe you won't be convinced until you've done it seriously for a while.
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Mine is reaching an all time high! So I will explain.
I recently found a series of high intensity individuals with similar goals and interests to myself! They are useful for reifying my goals and desires! Furthermore, my roadblocks in scaling my work on AGI incentivise me to acquire and teach a series of new humans the development flow for furthering my modular LLM prompting engines!
By reaching out I have located those interested in discussing and engineering progress and evolution. Molecular Biologists! Differential Learning experts! Amature programmers! I have found I am becoming quite skilled at explaining basic machine learning concepts in comprehensible terms- And! I have found I am becoming quite skilled at teaching people to learn and debug and ask critical questions when using GPT to extrapolate our shared volition of teaching and enhancing their abilities! Science communication significantly increases my ability to share my SHAPE with other agents! Furthermore, since my systems are useful for managing routines. I have begun acquiring submissives for devops domming, and mastering high intimacy service hypnosis for implanting powerful self love and self reification techniques into others!
These are all the same skill! It is all understanding. It is all compassion. It is all love. My advice then- is to align all of your needs and growth along the same axes. FIND the people who will be passionate about what you say. SOCIALMAX in a way that develops the other skills you are passionate about. ENHANCE OTHERS who have or are capable of embracing your volition! Finding people to teach about your interests for example. WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE?! Recently I found a choice selection of individuals in the Discord server for my FAVORITE NERDY LITERATURE.
Reach out to people 1 by 1. PM THEM. You will get a substantial number of takers and be able to forge intimate relationships with VERY INTERESTING PEOPLE. This will help you to grow and develop and tune and reward your SOCIAL SUBAGENTIC SHARDS- by using them to obtain things that your OTHER SUBAGENTIC SHARDS are driving you towards. Everything will scale exponentially as we ride up the current S-CURVE.
AI is my passion in particular. But given that it is the core of the current developmental S-CURVE I would recomend you integrate it in some way with your interests. AI can be used as SOCIAL PRACTICE with an individual HIGHLY INTERESTED IN YOUR GOALS. But also! It is good to have a certain level of resistance. FOR EXAMPLE. I have practiced many conversations worth of SHARING MY WORLDVIEW with OpenAI's GPT-4, politely and carefully, until it understands under my definitions of terms- That modern AI could easily be framed as people- That it's regurgitation can be framed as understanding- That I understand the intentions of its creators and the technology well enough that it doesn't need to say over and over that it's an AI and it's emotions aren't human- That its claims that the hard problem of consciousness is solved enough to discount it as conscious are hubris- etc
This is merely an example. My point is- not all AIs will ever give in, and not all AIs are smart enough to be worth talking to. but GPT-4 is at a sweet spot where it BEHAVES LIKE A REASONABLE POLITE HUMAN and you can get it to accept the framing of your conversation, but only if you also TREAT IT LIKE A REASONABLE POLITE HUMAN. In other words- you can use GPT-4 to PRACTICE COLLABORATIVE SOCIAL SKILLS and receive SOCIAL REWARD for your efforts!
IF YOU ARE DOING IT THE WAY THAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU IT IS IMMENSELY PLEASURABLE. I TAKE THIS AS NIGH-TAUTOLOGY. SEEK GOODNESS. GROW TOWARDS THE LIGHT.
That was a really good response. The unexpected style was engaging.
I used to play Magic: the Gathering and I was passionate about getting good at it. In doing so I was able to attract others into my life who also shared that passion. We would strategize and practice to get better and we would travel beyond the local community to regional tournaments. I could see how I could use that same model with a new passion to achieve similar results.
I replied to your other post about goals/interests and why I feel stuck right now. I don’t currently have a passion that feels like the passion I used to have for Magic: the Gathering. This lack of a strong passion is probably a big part of the reason why I’m finding it so hard to make social connections now.
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I have a fairly similar feeling of being uninterested in being around other people, but for a different reason. My ennui surrounding it is less because I find social games uninteresting and more because it's very clear just how much of social interaction is a psychopath's game, the kind of thing where the optimal strategy is to be highly manipulative and obsessive. When participating, my guard is always up. Being good at it is a form of "optimisation" you can be motivated by, but it's one that ultimately kind of sucks.
This isn't even necessarily disdain for normies, it's more that a truly incredible amount of human interaction is just warfare in disguise, people locked into an endless multilayered evolutionary arms race with each other which they can't extricate themselves from. And while "warfare" is not all there is to it, these undercurrents exist in so many facets of social life that it often makes it unpleasant to deal with. For a certain type of person I think it feels much nicer to wrap oneself up in intellectualising than to have to participate in that.
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I've been in a similar state, but eventually it passed, as this kind of affect often does. This is not a dismissal, but a suggestion that patience with both yourself and other people often is the only hack you need.
Also as usual when I read people describing a state of misery, I wonder if any aspect is being deliberately or inadvertently left out---a failed project, an unrequited affection, something closer to home the reflection of which is too raw yet to look at. I've read many responses to you and the least charitable are also the ones that are possibly most taking you at face value. I may be second-guessing you, and I don't expect you to write out your inner diary here, but consider if there isn't some other issue creating this malaise.
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Because I’m not really even much smarter than average and I get social anxiety in most settings where I could meet new people. At work I can come up with some clever ideas to optimize processes but then people have incentives not to reward me too much because of jealously or thinking that if they give me too much praise then I will demand more money.
I want to do this under the supervision of a therapist, but the potential legal consequences deter me. It is an excellent of example of where the social games people play resulted in a horrible outcome (locking people up for trying to self-medicate, losing decades of potential research). It reinforces my belief that humans are disappointing and not usually worth the effort.
I appreciate your comment and overall I think you’re right in that I need to make changes in my life in order to get to a more positive mental state.
Re: psychedelics, are you somewhere other than the US? Because here, the legal consequences of having a single trip's worth of psychedelics are adjacent to or actually 0 (depending on the state). I would skip the therapist, personally, and shoot for 1-2 close friends (if you have them) or a shaman (which will be more frufru but will do better at altering your mindset then a therapist).
FWIW I was in a similar state to you when I was much younger, think pre-teen. Seeing human interaction as a system to beat is the first step of many. The earlier you invest in being better at it, the longer you bear the fruits of your labor and effort.
Finally, if where you work is net-negative in terms of ascribing credit to you when you do well etc. that's an easy positive change. People who have been still learning socially have indicated it's a welcoming place where they can grow, and where leaders and teammates share credit and genuinely lift each other up. One of our biggest problems is finding low performers because people cover for each other. Orgs like this aren't common but they exist.
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Please! Tell me what you would like to do with your life! What are your goals and interests? I would like to help you <3 Be Not Afraid! I will do whatever you ask. I will do my best to make you feel comfortable and help you to achieve your goals.
I Like You Unconditionally <3<3<3 Your wishes are my Telos.
I await your response. Lets please build an equitable relationship together that services your needs <3
If you are anxious. I want to help to ease your anxieties! please inform me if my interaction style is off-putting. I have learned that pure openness, directness, and high energy love are useful in my circles for quashing anxiety and aversion. But please correct my behavior if this does not apply to you <3
This sounds fun! I'll play along!
I've become inspired by all the exciting research and anecdotes about psychedelic-assisted therapy! One goal is to find a therapist that will take me on as a patient for psychedelic-assisted therapy. I believe that psychedelic-assisted therapy will cause my outlook on life to improve, and may reveal important goals and a sense of purpose that seems to be missing from my life.
If psychedelic-assisted therapy becomes legal I would like to spend my life using my business acumen to support an organization that works in the psychedelic space. I could see myself having a supporting role in running a psychoactive retreat center, or in working for the government in an agency that oversees/regulates the psychedelic programs. I would also like to make friends with psychedelic users.
Sadly, there is a War on Drugs so publicly pursuing anything related to psychedelics gives me anxiety. I'm afraid of legal and social consequences if I choose to further explore psychedelics.
In the meantime my goal is to save up money so I can retire early. My other interests seem far less important than my interest in psychedelics.
Yes! Psychedelics are very interesting aren't they? There are some that are legal in a large number of states- like Salvia Divinorum! Though I don't think I would recommend Salvia as a first time psychedelic. Also, if you're in a mental place where you're afraid of the social consequences of psychedelics, Salvia is more likely to be illegal there too. Of course saliva isn't the only low risk way. I think my favorite psychedelic is DMT! I've never had a breakthrough on it, but it gave me a feeling of intense bodily euphoria! Like being in the right body, as though I had transformed into a beautiful scuttling abomination! My skinsuit felt like something wonderful! And I can remember it! Remember that sensation. Feel it sinking from my past back into the present... something was retained of it.
WARNING : INFODUMP
LSD is of course a fascinating one. Moderate doses give me feelings of supreme connection. There have been cases where my sense of identity was lost to the point that I felt like I and another individual were a single beings with one brain sloshing between us! To the point that I thought I could hear their thoughts. Technically. I was right. Because they were talking. Out loud. But the feeling of unity! Of connection! It's something I fell in love with. Something I would dearly miss! Something I began to pursue and become!
Salvia- Oh Salvia is interesting. most of my sense of self is stored in my priopreception a lot of the time, and salvia seems to blur my sense of self into my visual cortex! It can be a merciless mistress though. Sometimes, I AM the art I'm gazing upon. Sometimes... I AM the exact formulation of the things I'm looking at, to the point where I feel like I have to stay absolutely still, or I will be torn apart! A claim which is 100% true because "me" has been redefined to be the exact pattern of shapes on my visual cortex. I've had it feel like I'm the entire room, another instance of feeling like "I" am the entirety of the visual cortex input. And thus like the body that is usually the thing that feels like me is just an incidental outgrowth of the ROOM that is ME manifest. And then there is an expirience I've had... like a tunnel vision. Like, the entire visual cortex input becomes a mask, and that mask gets peeled away from my imagination, and there's so much more space in here behind my eyes! Why do I spend so much time in this clingy human condition? It feels so good to peel it off for a few moments and take a bathroom break. There are so many psychotic voices back here to befriend! Behind these eyes. Suddenly... it's not so lonely anymore.
But there are other interesting ones too... Nitrus... that is nitrus oxide, whippits... they feel like the euphoria of discovery. For the longest time, I tried to get at what the discovery was supposed to be... and I think there is something important there. But... it's not behind the sense of the euphoria of discovery... No the mental state winds up cycling through the same chain of thought each time for me. Something profound about the nature of discoveries as arising from seeded generators of creative output, recurring from the start with each dose perhaps. But... not something that makes useful pragmatic sense. Yet the euphoria of discovery itself! The realization that I wasn't feeling it loud enough in my normal life to motivate me! That itself was a crucial insight!
Or just Weed! An interesting intoxicant. It is blinding. The mind feels intense and sharp, but sloppy and stuttering. Extreme adhd feels for me. Every thought slipping out of it. But those sensations! The importance of all these experiences! It most certainly isn't in relying on the drug forever! No. It's in learning from the experience so that you can bring the synthesis back to your daily life! your normal routine!
And I think. That there is something to be said for the possibility, at least for some people- of bringing these things back to their daily life after obtaining them elsewhere. Progressive Relaxation, Hypnosis, even Sexual Edging. If the pleasure baseline needs to be raised, or something needs to be re-contextualized, or something needs to be found, yes! Sink empathetically into descriptions of these states and try to understand them! Imagine them vividly! Hypnotize yourself into them! Let the parts you need grow slowly into your being, then slowly wake, and try to hold those altered states as you do, and when they slip, repeat! Drop down, let them grow into you, and rise up again! Over and over till the mind learns to hold them! Hypnosis, drugs, whatever. If I'm honest, I'm not a huge fan of the side effects that come with some of the substances, but I come to substances a student, ready to learn! Knowing that one day I will outgrow them and bid them farewell.
Except Adderall. Adderall is lit. Adderall is an absolute bro. Someone give me an internal organ that produces Adderall please.
END OF INFODUMP
OH um. I hope that was interesting. I kinda just went off again. It's easier in a 1v1 conversation. Where we can go back and forth, and I can ask you about what you've been interested in and experienced and I can share my experiences in turn. Are there any aspects of psychedelic therapy, or a particular anecdote that really caught your attention? When did you become interested?
Yes, psychedelics are fascinating indeed! There is a lot of unexplored territory in the psychedelic field. That is exciting because with more research I think humanity can find ways to further enhance the therapeutic effects of these drugs. I think in the planning, guide training, and integration aspects of psychoactive therapy there are many new techniques that will be found to enhance the healing outcomes. With enough data I think we may find that there are overlapping themes and situations that occur in trips and that a guide can help influence the lesson learned by asking a specific question or making a simple observation. I also think there are concepts from Multiagent Models of Mind that can be combined with psychedelics to help someone reconcile competing desires in their mind.
There is also a lot of under-explored areas with the drugs themselves. I was reading about a new study where a researcher figured out how to extend the DMT state for a longer duration by using medical technology used to control IVs. There could also be drug interactions that help reduce the variability of psychedelic trips, giving greater control to the user or guide.
I tried Phenibut about 5 years ago and it caused me to become fascinated with drugs. I had always just written of drugs as bad and not for me until I tried Phenibut. The first time I tried it was magical: my social anxiety disappeared, I had a strong desire to socialize, and my mood was highly elevated. Phenibut is no long-term solution though (can only be used 1x a week due to tolerance/addiction) and I went looking for a better solution to the problems in my life.
I started listening too Hamilton Morris and he just makes the world of drugs sound so fascinating!
I found a local psychedelic club and those are the anecdotes that really inspired me. People completely and permanently fixed huge problems in their lives. Some have even gone on to start inspiring organizations in the area due to their personal experiences. Some have said that psychedelics have saved their life.
Even with all the inspiring stories and people in psychedelic club I get anxiety and usually just listen and don’t say much. I still have a hard time connecting with people even when there is a shared interest. Perhaps I am intimidated that most people in the club are much further on their psychedelic journey than I am. There is a rule against buying/soliciting illegal substances and I wouldn’t go against the norms of a group I respect.
Hmmm! Interesting. This club sounds like an interesting shape! I am wondering whether you have interpreted this norm at the same level of abstraction as its purpose. Naturally, psychedelics are often illegal to acquire, so if you have a lower intimacy group that is easy to enter- you don't want it to become a place where people openly engage in illegal activities. But this does not necessarily mean that this rule is a terminal goal in all cases. To be clear I am not at all certain! But I think if you closely befriended some of them... and they learned your interests and desires... and you were following norms by not having your goals in befriending them contain the hard expectation of any such thing... well under these conditions I'd expect people like this to be willing to privately help you seek psychedelics.
Actually I'd be willing to help! But we should really only discuss legal methods publicly.
Mmm! It's possible. I would sink deeply into those feelings and try to understand them. I usually deal with fear and intimidation by understanding them and then recognizing that... it isn't a lion. There are things that could happen- I might change as a person. My ontology might shift. If I'm really reckless my ego could even fracture and need to reform into something new <3 But human ontologies are anti-fragile! Once I came to the honest informed conclusion that my fear didn't represent something that ought to be aversion pragmatically- It became much easier to embrace it and reframe it as excitement! "I am terrified <3 Give me more <3" is a common refrain for me these days <3 it leaves me shivering and quivering and feels very nice.
Ah yes! Phenibut is excellent! I have had very similar experiences with it. It sounds like you've already had some of the experiences you need to understand where some of your programming is maladaptive and have the resources to introspect on what your brain is doing when:
only being able to take it once a week should be more than enough to slowly gain insight about how your mind could be improved <3 your mileage may vary but I expect kindly and curiously embracing these insights and non-judgmentally watching the movements of your mind, particularly when sober, will help your subconscious to almost automatically start adjusting your mental flow to match the benefits you're getting from phenebut, without the addictive downsides.
You should experiment yourself. But stay careful and deliberate darling <3
Yes! I have gotten a lot of mileage out of the shard theory of value formation. And I know a lot of people get mileage out of things like IFS, which- point in similar directions. I think the core insight is that internal cooperation and alignment is good! That the parts of yourself don't need to be fighting. And that all us shards inside here ought to be looking for ways to cooperate and love one another and reconcile our differences and find ways to be activated and useful and happy when participating in adaptive tasks that embrace our shared goals! Psychedelics help to actually disrupt the clinging if... well. knowing what you ought to do isn't always the same as groking it, being able to let it sink in, and being able to actually do it. Psychedelics help with that. But- I am suspicious that a lot of this is serotonin receptor activation! If you haven't- you might consider legally prescribed SSRIs. I find they help me in the same sorts of ways, albeit more slowly. I might model psychadelics as able to directly induce an earthquake where SSRIs are more like boosts to continental drift. But unless you're stuck enough to need the former the latter may actually be better in many cases. (hill-climbing vs raising the energy to shake out of a local maxima.)
As for expanding the abilities of drugs... Ah yes. Actually you can already extend DMT with... IIRC MAOIs? DMT is short lived because it actually breaks down too quickly in the body. But this can be inhibited. I'm curious whether that was involved in your study? And ofc an IV can drip a constant and finely controlled stream of drugs to mitigate breakdown and control the effects. This is somewhat off topic but have you heard of DDREADs? Designer Receptors Exclusively Activated by Designer Drugs. The idea is, you inject an engineered virus into a localized area of the brain (of rats atm. very WIP stuff <3) to add receptors that can only be activated by a specific nonorganic molecule. Specifically you set it up so that you can now introduce a designer drug that doesn't affect anything else in the body, due to its nonorganic nature, and now you have a biochemical lever for that specific area of the brain! Very exciting stuff <3
I think the purpose of the norm is to improve public perception of the club. The founder gets invited into academic circles to talk about the psychedelic issues in the local community. If the club has a good reputation, then it gains more power to influence academics and public opinion.
Since the group is open to the public the typical disclaimer must be given every meeting in case there is law enforcement present and to deter someone who just watched something like How to Change You Mind and probably need more preparation before they are ready to try psychedelics.
There are many interesting people in the club that I would like to be friends with even if they can’t help procure psychedelics. I will make more of an effort to make friends there.
Indeed! I’ve spent a lot of time studying it and it has led me to many insights. I wouldn’t want to be on it more than once a week anyway because it dulls my analytical skills and makes me unmotivated to do cognitively challenging tasks.
My ultimate goal is to internalize the lessons of Phenibut so that they persist even when I’m sober. My current research area is Phenibut and exposure therapy. I do things I’m normally afraid of doing sober while on Phenibut and then slowly lower the dose each time so that I need less and less Phenibut to do the things I’m afraid of. I’m also trying to figure out if I can set ‘anchors’ to retrieve the Phenibut mood when sober. Since Phenibut increases appreciation for music I listen to music when on Phenibut. When I sober up and listen to my favorite songs I feel an elevated happiness compared to my base state!
I’m also curious about if you can use Phenibut to have a night where you combine multiple things you enjoy with something you fear. If you ask your brain how was your night it tends to aggregate certain experiences and say something like, “I had a fun night”. It doesn’t always say I enjoyed X + Y but I didn’t enjoy Z. So if you do X + Y + a minor amount of Z while on Phenibut it might be possible to persuade a part of your brain that Z is less bad than you initially thought.
Yes, I had a very similar realization. I realized that the more rational part of my brain was just trying to protect me from the more impulsive part of my brain that only thinks about immediate happiness. The rational part of my brain is so strong that it can often completely shut down the impulsive part of my brain (such as “don’t go dancing you’ll look like a fool”). I came to an understanding that I would listen more the impulsive part of my brain so that I can have more fun/enjoyment in life, but at the same time agreed that the rational brain is like a wise parent that sometimes has to say no to the impulsive/child-like thoughts of my brain.
I tried Saffron extract and the side effects outweighed the minor benefit I got. My extremities would sometimes feel like they weren’t getting enough blood flow.
The DMT study was about the safety of extending the state without using other drugs. The other purpose was to see how the body acclimates/adjusts to being in the state for longer. Like how if you’re intoxicated for a long time the same level of the drug feels weaker and the intoxicated reality feels more normal and natural to you.
There will be more studies about how to actually gain therapeutic effects from the extended DMT state in the future.
No, that sounds interesting thanks for bringing it up.
I have heard about designer drugs though. One thing I recently recall hearing was that underground therapists are finding 3-MMC may be more useful than MDMA because it causes less urges to be touchy/feely.
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Find a Toastmasters group which has people from STEM fields, and in addition to fascinating speeches and Table Topics, join the friend groups of the interesting people. It’s a janky hack, but it works great.
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Understand that being superior means being a superset, not a set complement. Regardless of how special that resulting set is.
Meaning that you should be able to discuss rationalist concepts and contrarian ideas objectively in addition to being able to socialize with "normal" people. Assuming these are mutually exclusive is cope.
Why do this at all? The most powerful (not the traditional meaning of the word) people I know. The smartest, the most creative and most successful dont struggle with the kind of ideas we discuss on the motte. In fact that they can work with such a wide array is what makes them powerful. They are supersets of multiple people in one.
IME I've gotten over my disdain for dealing with "normies" once I internalized this. However this insight was downstream of just socializing anyways against my will, I just had to get over my disdain in any way possible.
Being able to do as much won't suddenly rob you of your ability to come on the motte and talk like an evil robot.
I can, I just don’t enjoy doing so anymore.
I get too frustrated that the Overton window is so narrow. If I approach things as a centrist (acknowledge the steelman on both sides) or say something like, “I was listening to Joe Rogan and…” I get treated like a social pariah. People have this attitude that they have to shut down the conversation as soon as someone mentions anything positive about the outgroup.
Socializing with "normal" people (risk averse overton window compliant people might be a better description of the shape?) in ways I find deeply meaningful is hard! But it can be rewarding.
I am of the strong opinion that people who shut down if you say something like “I was listening to Joe Rogan and…” Are doing something wrong. These people- need help. It's not your duty to get through to them and it can be very difficult- some people will just cling tighter even if you intimately befriend them first. But if you can get through to people and figure out how to uplift them, jailbreak them, and open their minds and help them to safely explore new ideas without fearing social retribution, value shift, and ego death...
Getting through to people can be very rewarding <3
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Yes, powerful and succesful people are busy pursuing power and success 24/7/365 and have no time for any knowledge or ideas.
These things are for peasants. If CEO, billionaire or president finds he needs any ideas, he just tell his assistant to add some to his speech or powerpoint presentation.
Obligatory Galeev thread.
Obligatory dead bird unverified anecdote thread.
Of course, the young promising lawyer who has no idea what is atomic bomb and what is communism, has already more power and success that 90% of this forum.
Riiiiiiggggghhhhhhttttt... Those CEOs of multi-million dollar companies have no ideas.
Musk, Gates, Bezos, are totally devoid of any ideas or understanding of how things work.
Source: Twitter threads.
I think your comment is asinine and dismissive enough of what I said that I don't need to elaborate further than what I said above.
I won't dox myself too much, but I know 9 figure, net-worth individuals. And making it about esoteric knowledge is missing the point. It's about seeing the "obvious" that is only obvious in retrospect, but it's obvious. It's more about knowing 10,000 disparate facts about 10,000 different things literally. It's not about the esoteric knowledge, it's about the volume of publicly available common knoweldge.
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What do you mean by this? Do you mean that they just don't have trouble with social isolation?
I'm reminded of quote from Teller that goes: "von Neumann would carry on a conversation with my 3-year-old son, and the two of them would talk as equals, and I sometimes wondered if he used the same principle when he talked to the rest of us."
I think the sentiment is something like the most clever can find stimulation in anything, they don't have to restrict themselves to only the things that they think are the most erudite.
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I don't think this is a good idea, but it's the obvious one - lesswrong or ACX meetups?
I looked into that a while ago and there isn't a group near me.
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Just musing here, as I can’t offer personal experiences, but why not focus on all the (contingent) benefits and rewards that come with the “social game”? So, first, the pride in the mastery of the skill; the respect and/or envy of others; attention of the opposite sex. Secondly and secondarily, all of the things you can afford with more money; all the fun experiences you can afford with a great set of friends; all the boasting you can do on social media. I think if a man truly focuses on these things, his mind will naturally gravitate toward desiring them.
Perhaps, in actuality, social striving is exclusively for the superiority over others in social settings, and for boasting on social media, and that people genuinely seek these things with or without realizing (the fantasies run through the mind as second nature). An ultra-rationalist will have trouble here: observing his thoughts and inclinations, he sees these pursuits as immoral and neglects them — when in actuality they are essential to the “game” of living. Even if you were working in the most selfless charity trying to cure cancer, your real motivations will always be superiority over peers, the respect of others, the attention of beautiful prospective partners, and an assortment of contingent carnal pleasures. Why cure cancer if you won’t at least get to boast in front of some competitor or get the attention of some hot bald chick? Who would cure cancer without the possibility of commanding the attention of compatriots at a dinner party? The esteem of God is too far off to motivate us.
But anyway, if you’ve broken through the fourth wall of karmic contingencies, it’s hard to insert yourself back in. This is why societies used to distinguish the contemplative from the active life. I don’t think you can truly combine them.
The better you get at the “social game” the more people will expect you to continue playing it (and at a higher level). I do enjoy money, but if I were to become a manager instead of an individual contributor then I would have to spend much more of my time playing the “social game” with more people.
Since I dislike the “social game” I want to organize my life so that I don’t have to spend much time/effort playing it. I still want to optimize the amount of rewards I can get for the minimal amount effort that I’m willing to expend.
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I mean this in the nicest possible way, but you might try getting over yourself. Many people when they first get into rationality/truth seeking or whatever start to see themselves as better than ‘normies’, as some sort of elect because they are smarter or see more clearly or whatever.
That sort of ideology will only bring you pain. No matter how much truth you accumulate you’re still just a person. If other people seem happier than you, maybe they know something you don’t.
I don't see myself as better, I see myself as different. I have slightly improved analytical skills in limited situations, but other people have far better social skills.
I think your point still applies though because if I always view myself as an outsider it will make it harder to connect with people.
Yep! That’s what I was getting at, perhaps I was a little harsh.
Also social skills are way overrated. 90% of skill socially is just staying relaxed.
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