Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 72
- 5
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I just checked his comment history in disbelief, you haven't heard of the majority of: : jimi hendrix, bob marley, neil young, alice in chains, eric clapton, black sabbath, the commodores, cat stevens, nitty gritty dirt band, nick drake, donald fagen, little feat, traffic, the beach boys, cat stevens, yes, beck, the orb, dungen, neutral milk hotel, fleetwood, wilco, pure prairie league, jade warrior, black crowes, hot tuna, bon iver, peter gabriel, blood sweat and tears, james brown, jurassic 5, madlib, bob dylan, sam cooke, grizzly bear?
Not trying to be aggressive, but if someone told me they haven't heard of most of these, (6-12 seems totally normal) I would assume they're under 15 years old or a pop-culture disconnected old person who only listens to beethoven and wagner
To be fair, the complete list is: Lynyrd Skynyrd, Strawbs, Organized Konfusion, Thievery Corporation, The Byrds, Bob Seger, Roy Harper, Boards of Canada, Donovan, Fleetwood Mac, Big Star, Heart, Rush, Bad Company, Stevie Wonder, Bloomfield Kooper & Stills, The Pretty Things, Aretha Franklin, The Meters, Wishbone Ash, Talking Heads, Psyche Origami, Nick Drake, BS&T, Peter Gabriel, Phil Spector (Sort of), Bon Iver, James Brown, Jurassic 5, MAdlib, Bob Dylan, Sam Cooke, Prefuse 73, Grizzly Bear, The Beach Boys, Traffic, Cat Stevens, Dungen, The Orb, Yes, Beck, Neutral Milk Hotel, Wilco, Pure Prairie League, Jade Warrior, The Black Crowes, Hot Tuna, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, Commodores, Tom Waits, Neil Young, Black Sabbath, Eric Clapton, Alice in Chains, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Marley, Little Feat, Donald Fagen.
For those of you who claim to know classic rock but think you haven't heard of these (@SubstantialFrivolity @FiveHourMarathon), some of them have put out classic rock staples, though not necessarily on the albums listed. Donald Fagen was half of Steely Dan and "IGY" from the album here is pretty well-known, though doesn't get the airplay it used to. Traffic did "Dear Mr. Fantasy", the original "Feelin' Alright", and "The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys". Pure Prairie League had "Aimee". Peter Gabriel did "Solisbury Hill", "Games Without Frontiers", "Shock the Monkey", "Sledgehammer", "Big Time", "In Your Eyes", among others, and was also in Genesis for a while. I'm honestly surprised you haven't heard of him. BS&T is best-known "Spinning Wheel" but that's played more on oldies stations than classic rock stations. Nitty Gritty did "Mr. Bojangles", which is also more of an oldies thing. Commodores did "Brick House", "Sail On", and "Three Times a Lady", among others, which are also oldies, though "Brick House" is pretty ubiquitous. Sam Cooke did a number of old soul songs that you're probably familiar with. And I don't know what to say to someone who hasn't heard of James Brown, who's made too many stone classics to even begin mentioning them, though I guess "I Got You (I Feel Good)" is a good start.
More options
Context Copy link
I'd consider myself modestly into rock music, and a native born American to boot so grew up on oldies rock stations on jobsite boom boxes, I'd never heard of the bolded group, a decent number of the remainder you could tell me more or less anything about I only know that they exist. Only 19 would be bands I actually "know" and have listened to.
Same boat, but I was familiar with Peter Gabriel and not Jurassic 5 or Wilco. Sam Cooke, the Commodores, Traffic: I had to look them up before realizing I knew some of their music. The latter only because "Low Spark of High Heeled Boys" is a title that really sticks with you--I had heard it exactly once on the radio.
I feel comfortable in calling it a pretty eclectic combination.
More options
Context Copy link
jimi hendrix, bob marley, neil young, alice in chains, eric clapton, black sabbath, the commodores, cat stevens, nitty gritty dirt band, nick drake, donald fagen, little feat, traffic, the beach boys, cat stevens, yes, beck, the orb, dungen, neutral milk hotel, fleetwood, wilco, pure prairie league, jade warrior, black crowes, hot tuna, bon iver, peter gabriel, blood sweat and tears, james brown, jurassic 5, madlib, bob dylan, sam cooke, grizzly bear
The ones I haven't heard of.
Nearly identical for me until I found out donald fagen is the guy from steely dan. well below half, and fits my "not knowing 6-12 of the 40 seems most expected"
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I haven't heard of: the commodores, Nick Drake, Donald fagen, little feat, tracks, the orb, dungen, neutral milk hotel, wilco, pure prairie league, jade warrior, hot tuna, bon iver, Peter Gabriel, blood sweat and tears, James brown, Jurassic 5, madlib, Sam Cooke, or grizzly bear. So... Yeah, most of your list there.
And no I'm not a kid or disconnected from pop culture. In fact I spend most of my music time listening to classic rock, so this is arguably my area that I listen to music in. But yeah he's naming a ton of artists I've never even heard of. And even for those who I do know of, I don't know the albums in most cases.
You might not have heard of him, but you have definitely heard James Brown if you are not disconnected from pop culture - Funky Drummer has been sampled to death, Sex Machine is almost synonymous with the seventies, and I Got You is in every ad ever made (slight hyperbole).
I'd also guess as cultural touchstones, that you would have heard In Your Eyes by Peter Gabriel in at least one tv show or movie, and same for Bon Iver's Skinny Love, although you might have heard that covered.
More options
Context Copy link
If your preference is classic rock (Led Zeppelin, the Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Pink Floyd, Queen, Aerosmith, U2, The Eagles, Kiss etc) you may enjoy some of the list
Wilco - https://youtube.com/watch?v=wl3u-rcVgVs
Nick Drake - https://youtube.com/watch?v=j14PgxHghjQ
Grizzly Bear - https://youtube.com/watch?v=tjecYugTbIQ
Peter Gabriel - https://youtube.com/watch?v=OJWJE0x7T4Q
The Commodores - https://youtube.com/watch?v=7XcTyEKSnYg
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link