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I presume this is the type of observation I will be hearing about until the day I die.
Most people seem to have no idea what a trans person is or what trans rights are. So when even the slightest personal inconvenience arises, the good folk will balk at the notion and do their best to shield themselves and their immediate environment from the thing they've been advocating for most of their lives. You could make the same observation for nigh every policy.
I think the squeamishness is less about trans people themselves and more about the physical danger of biological males in a women’s restroom or changing room. The current state of trans is that it’s basically on the say so of the male — if a man is in the women’s restroom, he is allowed to be there unless he’s very obviously and blatantly doing something creepy. He’d basically have to openly masterbate, attempt to take pictures, or attempt a rape. Until them, all he has to do is claim to be trans — no supporting documentation required— and nobody can do anything about it. In fact, it’s much more likely that the woman who objects will face punishment for “transphobia” than tge male will.
But in all seriousness - as far as I can tell, the usual arguments for sex-segregated spaces (and anti-trans policies in general) apply pretty much verbatim to race-segregated spaces. Specifically, the idea that if group X is much more likely to do [bad thing] than group Y, society should segregate the 2 groups (and in practice, just prevent group X from interacting with group Y, and have "X spaces" just be for everyone) And even though such a policy hurts the majority of group X who are totally innocent, the physical safety of group Y outweight their wounded ego.
You can just yeschad.jpg and say you want Jim Crow again (and there are probably users on the forum who would), but this does not seem to be the position of the majority of those who oppose transgender ideology (even on this forum) - so I ask, how do you explain such radically different stances on these (seemingly similar to me) issues?
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But that's what a trans person is and that's what trans rights are in practice. Anyone who is squeamish about these things is by definition transphobic. As well as being, pardon my French, hysterical and ridiculous. As if your male coworkers suddenly turn into a physical danger as soon as you have to share a porcelain bowl...
There's an entire progressive dialect invented to get past these hurdles. Followed by a ruleset that should allow any well-meaning actor, who is concerned with the rights of trans people, to get along with their day without allowing their transphobia to negatively affect trans people as they try to exist.
Unisex toilets exist all over the world. This is transphobia masquerading as misandry. It should not be allowed to stand in any case if we are holding ourselves to any egalitarian modern standard.
There have always been pervy guys. Even Japan has to have separate cars for women on their trains. And the reason that the cameras on all phones make noise when you take a picture is because of up skirting (taking pictures under the skirts of women without them knowing). It’s a very small subset, and to my knowledge probably even rarer among true-trans people. But on the other hand, restrooms and changing are very private areas where women are vulnerable. I don’t think it’s reasonable to say “this guy just said he was a woman two minutes ago for the first time, so sorry granny, he gets to be in your changing room and see you naked.” With a process that involves time and effort, I get it.
If you think your coworker is a weird pervert then you need to take that issue up with your supervisor. Not wave it around as a hypothetical at the expense of human rights for trans people.
Restrooms aren't just a place of vulnerability for women. They are also a place of vulnerability for trans people. There need to be some pretty strong material arguments made for why trans people should be barred from the bathrooms of their experienced sex that go beyond TERF'ist misandry. That is, if we want to ground our position in reality rather than phobia.
Gender dysphoria and being trans is not treated with 'two minute' levity anywhere I know of.
If no documentation of actually being diagnosed with gender disphoria is required, then they don’t need to actually bother with the time or expense. They just go in the women’s room and if challenged, claim that they’re trans. This is rarely challenged, and in fact the few times I know of women complaining were either kicked out or shamed for transphobia.
I'm not seeing the problem.
You don’t see a problem when a man who is physically bigger and stronger can — just based on saying that he’s trans — get full access to women’s intimate spaces over the objections of the women themselves? I’m perfectly fine with doing so with a real process — requiring proof of an actual diagnosis and ongoing treatment, for example. But basically letting any man who wants to to simply walk into women’s restroom or changing room and if challenged, the magic words of “im trans” mean that not only is he allowed to do this, but women are not allowed to complain about it. So basically until such a man is seen by multiple women attempting to photograph women’s bodies, or worse attempting to rape them, there’s nothing to be done. I don’t blame such women from just not going into known “inclusive” restrooms because they are not protected.
In the cases of prisoners, sure, there's a potential problem, though not trans specific. With bathrooms? No. I've used womens restrooms as a man. Nothing happened. The bathroom debate is hysterical nonsense from top to bottom.
If you as a woman are at risk of being raped in a bathroom I can only ask where in the third world you take your dumps. The notion of rape in a public space by a stranger is extremely rare. I'm not even sure I've ever seen a bathroom in a public space that was ever outside shouting distance of someone else. On top of that, research has been done in places that are gender conforming and the stats find no evidence of any trans person engaging in such activity. In fact, gender non-conforming youth are much more likely to experience sexual assault, if sexual assault is the big problem for you.
As for general perverts, they don't need to be trans to put hidden cameras in the toilet. I'm sure there's plenty of evidence of that on the internet if one is interested.
The Lady sign on the bathroom door doesn't protect anyone from anything. Women who refuse to enter unisex restrooms do so for either hysterical or transphobic reasons, not rational ones.
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I like gender conforming women, I do not like trannies, one interest takes precedence. It’s that simple.
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The entire question was turned into a terrifying minefield for employers. This will not be investigated and taken care of in an objective matter, the employer will just give in to the side with the scariest lobby and the most influence on its HR department at the moment (women or trans).
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The ur-example that kicked off all the trouble in Scotland, a violent rapist who suddenly decided after being convicted that in fact he was a she and that's why she had committed those rapes, it was all the dysphoria and psychic distress you see.
Jonathan/Jessica Yaniv making a nice little earner out of suing immigrant-owned/workers small businesses for transphobia because brown women didn't want to wax a feminine penis and testicles.
The Wi Spa guy (yes, guy) who casually admitted he got his gender notification changed easily but did absolutely nothing else to transition:
The ACLU brought a case the decision of which compelled the prison system to send trans prisoners to the prison of their "experienced sex" (to use your phrasing). Now, that may indeed be a good thing for the human rights of trans people. Except this grifter then took advantage of it, forced his (and I am saying "his" because if you've still got all your working male parts and can get cis women pregnant, I don't believe you are genuinely trans) removal to a female prison, and there we go, two new babies came into the world.
Those cases are out there. The defence of them, along with legitimate trans people, is what causes the trouble. Discard the liars and nutcases, then ordinary people will be more willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Men who, when faced with going to prison, suddenly discover their inner womanhood - they don't get to go to women's prisons (and it is remarkable how many, out of the small transgender prison population, are serving terms for sexual offences). Make it legally enforceable that "guy with working male genitals can too come into a female space just by saying he is now she" and then don't be surprised when people object.
Cases of criminals raping their fellow inmates is not an argument against trans rights any more than interracial rape is an argument against civil rights.
If you want to argue that being raped by penis is worse than something else, you should start by looking at men's prisons. If you want to argue rape in general is the problem, female inmates rape eachother more than male inmates.
Individual cases are irrelevant to the scope of the discussion, which is human rights for trans people. When we are talking about prison populations and criminals the discussion will get dragged into an unsavory quagmire with a lot of negative connotations that transphobic people try to associate with the concept of trans rights. This is a dishonest guilt by association tactic that's not relevant to the actual discussion of the topic. Proven by the fact that people refuse to engage in similar rhetoric regarding race.
I'm not surprised people object when they don't know what trans rights are, nor what transphobia is. The modern prison system is a crime against humanity. It places people in terrible conditions that facilitate further suffering and strife to no one's benefit. Those who choose to argue against trans rights rather than argue in favor of a better prison system betray their transphobic bias and abdicate any moral highground they may have pretended to occupy.
Sure, though I disagree that any rights are being violated by not letting a male go to a women's prison.
I'll have to read it, but doesn't pass the smell test given the difference in sex drives.
It's not dishonest. Trans activists were originally promising none of this situations will ever happen.
You seem to be assuming that the case for trans rights requires no justification, and any disagreement must stem from lack of knowledge. I disagree, and believe the case for "trans rights" is simply unsupportable.
Again, I completely disagree, and believe this renders the concept of "crimes against humanity" meaningless.
You have to look no further than what happened with El Salvador's crime rates to see that the benefit to the rest of society is quite obvious.
And a racist would disagree that any rights are being violated by not letting a colored go to a white only bathroom.
It's a dishonest association regardless of what some trans activists said or not. If a criminal who happens to be trans further commits crimes in prison then they can be dealt with like other criminals who do the same.
Then we have an obvious disagreement. I would argue you could much more readily say the same for civil rights in America. The cost and scale is far greater, yet it's easily glossed over by the proponents of civil rights and desegregation. Doing the same for trans people is trivial in comparison.
Reading first hand accounts followed up by official definitions of crimes against humanity, you don't have a rational leg to stand on when you say this.
What exactly about the prisoners suffering makes the streets they no longer occupy safer?
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With apologies to Conquest, everyone wants to conserve the things they know best.
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