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PaperclipPerfector  7d ago (text post)   33507 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 17, 2025

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It’s a legit point. The conservative project relies on an idyllic view of the past and of conservative families, which can be hard to maintain when you’ve seen it from the inside. My grandparents ‘s generation were all very religious, and so it was common for spouses to hate each other all their life.

Plus, a lot of straightforward claims conservatives make like ‘all mothers love their children’, ‘all men feel the need to protect women and children’, ‘all people have a god-shaped hole’, etc, can be refuted through a single anecdote.

The conservative project relies on an idyllic view of the past and of conservative families, which can be hard to maintain when you’ve seen it from the inside. My grandparents ‘s generation were all very religious, and so it was common for spouses to hate each other all their life.

But certainly not all families are like that. I was raised in a happy family, and, to my knowledge, have mostly encountered happy families at church and so forth.

Do conservatives usually say that these things just happen by default? I'm more used to conceptualizing things as natural tendencies or roles, which we then have a responsibility and a duty to actually carry out.

The conservative project relies on an idyllic view of the past and of conservative families

Well, no. I don't know what you mean by "conservative project" but conservatives don't simply register the past as "idyllic" as a rule. There's plenty of bad stuff in there! Communism, Nazism, the origin point of modern conservatism was Burke's response to the French Revolution.

The point is that conservatives point to pro-social behaviors, practices, and traditions that over hundreds and thousands of years have repeatedly shown themselves to be unquestionably beneficial to humanity and society. These are the very concepts, ideas, and traditions we seek to conserve. We don't believe in radical and accelerated experimentation with these. Within living memory, we went from "boys shouldn't hit girls" to arguing that more boys should be allowed to pummel girls for money.

My grandparents ‘s generation were all very religious, and so it was common for spouses to hate each other all their life.

Then I'd argue they weren't people of genuine faith, but scrupulous virtue signalers who used organized religious practices - and voiced adherence of them - to assuage their guilt for being shitbags. This is extremely common in evangelical circles and in the online RadTrad and OrthoBro spaces. It is astonishing how people who truly, deeply live the principles of their faith come across as intensely normal, pleasant, and happy people.

‘all mothers love their children’

This is not a core conservative claim unless you add in "should" between "mothers" and "love"

‘all men feel the need to protect women and children’

See above.

‘all people have a god-shaped hole’

Ah, well, credit where it is due. I think this is probably a core conservative claim and one of the big wedges between conservatives and "libertarians" (although, personally, I find the term "libertarian" to be close to meaningless.) For instance, one can't help but smirk at the fact that the "Rational" community has re-invented the concept of Satan as Moloch....when Moloch is literally a Biblical demon.

I'm not saying those are core claims, just what garden-variety conservatives frequently say at the dinner table. I don't consider anecdotes like justawoman's to be refutations of serious conservative thought. But they are not "trolling".

It is astonishing how people who truly, deeply live the principles of their faith come across as intensely normal, pleasant, and happy people.

I'm trying to avoid debating the entirety of conservatism, but that's obviously a No True Christian fallacy.

Other ideologies have their own idealizations of an imagined past or an imagined future, of course. And simplistic stuff they say at the dinner table.

I'm trying to avoid debating the entirety of conservatism, but that's obviously a No True Christian fallacy.

What's the sample that you're drawing from? Since I mostly have experience from churches and similar, and those tend to have pretty good families as far as I can tell.

I'm trying to avoid debating the entirety of conservatism, but that's obviously a No True Christian fallacy.

Aren’t weekly church attendees doing much better, and doing better for others? Doesn’t seem ridiculous or fallacious to note that people who actually practice Christianity tend to become better people, while those who just occasionally talk about it don’t.

Its legit to the extent to which you agree with the complainer that it was the family rather than them that was at fault. Obviously, it is hard to provide evidence for this without doxxing yourself, but that comment didnt even make an attempt, it doesnt even describe any concrete event, only how she feels about things generally.

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