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PaperclipPerfector  3d ago (text post)   15250 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 6, 2025

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Fires in California seem really bad - Mandate of Heaven in danger?

California has been forsaken by God for longer than I've been alive.

Some fun word play with your title aside, it feels like at this point if you are stilling living in California, you deserve it. Once upon a time I would have looked at the devastation Democrats have wrought and felt bad for the state, which in my youth was still regarded a purplish state. The home of Ronald Reagan. Now I just can't feel anything. Everyone there voted for this for at least a decade. They voted for it again quite recently in a recall election. They are literally willing to die in a fire than vote for someone who might say something that offends a chosen minority.

I mean they literally refuse to hire white male firefighters. People voted for that. Like this isn't their first wild fire. Their priorities are unfathomable.

It's like hearing about the Heaven's Gate Cult in the 90's. What? They all dressed, talked and acted the same? Some of them chopped their dicks off?! And then they all killed themselves over a prophesy? Some people were able to feel sympathy for the cult members. Maybe they'd lost someone to a cult, or felt they had a close brush with one at a vulnerable time in their life. For most people it was entertainment. They were a laughing stock. And so California is to me now.

The suffering of a Californian is as the suffering of a Flagellate to me. A spectacle of suffering coming from a place of otherworldly confidence that it cleanses. I can't feel bad for them, because they so willfully chose it, and would actually probably hurt me if I tried to save them from themselves. It's best to just leave them to it until they kill themselves.

Edit: Your right, I forgot who I was talking to. Go ahead Californian Rationalist. Keep doing you. This isn't on you at all. Don't change a thing.

Everyone there voted for this for at least a decade.

What in the world are you talking about? 38% of California voted for Trump in the last election. More than 40% voted for the Republican in the most recent gubernatorial election. California is only about 60% Democrat. Very very far from "everyone".

I disagree with this in the strongest possible terms. The flagellate was more than a spectacle of suffering. The flagellate truly confessed and remembered his sin before his self-punishment. There’s psychological research to support both this practice and the medieval “mechanical” treatment of repentance generally. When a memory is reactivated (retrieved) it becomes labile (malleable) immediately and for up to six hours, in which period the valence and instinctual response regarding the memory can be modified. Provided that the flagellate has reactivated the memory of his commission of sin before his punishment, this would act as powerful counterconditioning which will (unconsciously) make him averse to the sin in the future (this may take a month to fully occur neurologically). This has been studied for instance in respect to alcoholism: “Disruption of relapse to alcohol seeking by aversive counterconditioning following memory retrieval”, “Long-term behavioural rewriting of maladaptive drinking memories via reconsolidation-update mechanisms”, etc. (The opposite can occur as well, which supports the mechanical way that gratitude was “practiced” (reactivating prosocial cues before the enjoyment of, say, a succulent Chinese meal)). If there were flagellates in California, perhaps things would be different.

Let us consider the California Question with special attention to what our Psalmists have to say —

Fret for your figure and fret for your latte and

Fret for your lawsuit and fret for your hairpiece and

Fret for your Prozac and fret for your pilot and

Fret for your contract and fret for your car

It's a bullshit three ring circus sideshow

The archetypical LA mindset is characterized by distraction and consumerism. It is not characterized by the recognition or repentance of sins (errors); it’s questionable whether the local leaders even believe in those. The fire is the Divine Mandate, contrary to the OP, at least symbolically speaking. The fire is “improbable but longterm-certain threat that has gone unrecognized”, and “failure to plan longterm”, and “failure to elect strong-minded leaders who care”, and then “failure to prioritize changing politicians”, which involves “failure to prioritize changing culture”, and descending to the relevant individuals with wealth and time there is “failure to sacrifice status in order to grow the right culture”, reaching to those who fretted figure and latte and contract and sideshow more than than what is actually Good. A ton of innocent people are going to suffer from this, too, which makes their sins so much worse.

Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation

And tidal waves couldn't save the world from Californication

Someone who whips themselves for religious reasons is a flagellant. Flagellates are micro-organisms with whip-like tails.

I mean they literally refuse to hire white male firefighters. People voted for that. Like this isn't their first wild fire. Their priorities are unfathomable.

People vote for all sorts of reasons. When Californians had a direct vote on things like AA they rejected it

Write like everyone is reading, and you want to include them in the conversation. As you've been reminded somewhat recently.

Yes, even Californians. Yes, even your outgroup. While your comment is not entirely devoid of substance, it brings far, far more heat than light. Let's see, last time I wrote:

You do your substantive position no favors by cranking the rhetoric to 11. Your occasional AAQCs only get you so much lenience. It has been a while since your last ban, after which you became a quality-content machine for a bit! But recently your warnings have been arriving with increasing frequency. Let's try another week-long ban.

Two weeks this time, I guess.

Everyone there voted for this for at least a decade.

In fact, not all Californians are members of your outgroup.

I mean they literally refuse to hire white male firefighters.

Are you sure there is a literal refusal to hire white male fighters? The small story from the LibsofTiktok outrage slop -- slop you chose to share -- reports on this organization which facilitates recruitment of minorities. If wildfire firefighters are primarily white, male, and have shit wages why would it not make sense to target other demographics to fill the ranks?

Maybe Californian disasters would be better managed and mitigated by voting Republican. Makes sense to me that competition has a better chance at breeding competence. They might have less damage from fires if they paid firefighters $30/hr instead of 15-20. I'm not sold it's because of bait from LibsofTikTok for one organization doing recruitment in one area targeting one demographic.

If wildfire firefighters are primarily white, male, and have shit wages why would it not make sense to target other demographics to fill the ranks?

Why would it?

Being a janitor is a job with shit wages. Do you have to go target minorities to take the position?

It seems like a pointless discussion anyway: the fact that it's too white and male implies that it's just the usual thing. I can see racial diversity but some jobs probably should be have gender skews.

I mean janitors work a shit job with shit wages that is also heavy on brown women.

Why would it?

Because minorities can probably adequately haul water to flames for 15/hr too.

Being a janitor is a job with shit wages. Do you have to go target minorities to take the position?

You don't have to, but many janitors do happen to be minorities.

In 2021 this Marin County Fire Dept. unit looks pretty white and male. Maybe they need communication operators and support staff. They think they can make quota by getting some girls. I don't know what goes into firefighting. Yes, yes, it could be the woke mind virus and probably is to some degree. I don't think Marin County Fire Dept's program is burning LA at the moment. This was my main objection to the framing in the parent.

Let's not slam down LibsofTikTok slop-bait as if it is authoritative.

You don't have to, but many janitors do happen to be minorities.

The point is we didn't need a diversity programs to make this happen.

Maybe they need communication operators and support staff. They think they can make quota by getting some girls. I don't know what goes into firefighting. Yes, yes, it could be the woke mind virus and probably is to some degree. I don't think Marin County Fire Dept's program is burning LA at the moment. This was my main objection to the framing in the parent.

I mean...sure. If your argument is that they did not categorically refuse to hire while male workers but instead showed a preference for non-whites,to the point of quotas (what happens when they don't fill their quotas and have more white men than they can use? They're not going to "literally refuse to hire" those excess wypipo?) and that it probably was driven by wokism...then I guess we have no disagreement.

I won't defend WhiningCoil's maximally uncharitable statements, but that's really the only set of charges this sort of argument is a defense again.

Yeah, the devil's in the details. Firefighting, like all fighting, should probably continue to be mostly male. There are a lot of ponytails on that website, suggesting they would really like more women, which seems unlikely for physical reasons. Who's the girl in the overalls and headband supposed to be? The local police force here hired a woman with beautiful long hair and her bouvier or some such animal to give presentations, such as at elementary schools. She starter out as a vet tech, and now brings the dog around and lets the children pet it while teaching them a bit about safety. That's fine, sure, but not very central.

Of course there doesn't seem to be a reason English speaking mestizo men wouldn't be firefighters. In a heavily hispanic state like California, I'm surprised they're not, and I suppose worth reaching out to?

I’m pretty sure there’s an under representation of mestizos in wilderness firefighting because wilderness firefighters come from rural communities which value wilderness firefighting- ONCOR in Texas is similarly very white for the same reason.

It's anecdotal, but Seattle attempted to solve its "white male firefighter" problem by testing recruits on "memoirs of a transgender firefighter." Applying to this "fire foundry" program requires you to write a Diversity Statement just like applying to the UC system, and we already know how that process works to commit racial employment discrimination.

After so many years of the same pattern repeating over and over in "the unbearable white maleness of X" campaigns, I would need significant evidence to assume something different. And I don't trust that anyone who gleefully supports it isn't trolling.

Claim: the majority of California, or even area, firefighters aren't recruited through organizations such as this one. Which is most likely an ineffectual, tax skimming grift via state grants. It could also be a genuine, if misguided, attempt to scoop bodies for the Marin County Fire Department as it claims.

I wouldn't implement it. If they have a dearth in recruitment and need bodies they should either open parallel grifty grant programs for anyone likely to be qualified, or make one big one and take whoever qualifies as they apply.

I'd be open to the idea that, like the military, we see firefighter recruitment issues that may be worsened by poor propaganda or DEI preference. Which I don't consider a top 3 factor, but do consider a top 10 one. I would not require much evidence to update this way. Even a credible enough looking firefighting forum post could do it for me. I won't update off of Libsoftiktok bait though.

Yep, if anything I’d expect the headline shared to work to increase the number of firefighters not decrease it?

Trying to target new demographics who typically don’t go for those jobs, sounds pretty cool.

This argument is outdated by about a decade. SocJus outreach programs are always originally justified through "we don't want to discriminate, it's just to tap in to new demographics" and they've descended into attacking straight/cis/white/males enough times, that you have at least an equal burden of proof to show that it didn't happen this time.

we don't want to discriminate, it's just to tap in to new demographics"

And then, when the untapped population of gay hijabi prodigies who were clearly being held back by racism don't show up when the barriers are pulled down, the finger has to be put on the scale.

Sometimes, even if they do:

Blind auditions, as they became known, proved transformative. The percentage of women in orchestras, which hovered under 6 percent in 1970, grew. Today, women make up a third of the Boston Symphony Orchestra, and they are half the New York Philharmonic. Blind auditions changed the face of American orchestras.

But not enough.

American orchestras remain among the nation’s least racially diverse institutions, especially in regard to Black and Latino artists. In a 2014 study, only 1.8 percent of the players in top ensembles were Black; just 2.5 percent were Latino. At the time of the Philharmonic’s 1969 discrimination case, it had one Black player, the first it ever hired: Sanford Allen, a violinist. Today, in a city that is a quarter Black, just one out of 106 full-time players is Black: Anthony McGill, the principal clarinet.

The status quo is not working. If things are to change, ensembles must be able to take proactive steps to address the appalling racial imbalance that remains in their ranks. Blind auditions are no longer tenable.

I thought that article looked immediately familiar.

Has it worked that way in any other "there are too many white men" cases? At all? From air force pilot recruiting to air traffic control recruiting to electricians to engineering students to orchestra players to academic jobs?

Can’t speak to the rest of those things, but if you are a white male and want to become an electrician there will be no one attempting to stop you.

Oh right, I never finished that post about the new WA electrician apprenticeship program requirements. They all need to be licensed by the state now, and the license renewal is contingent on not training too many white men.

Things are worse than most people know.

This sneering is completely unsupported by the reality that in 2020 there were more Trump voters in California than there were in Texas.

And more Biden voters in Texas than there were in New York. (xkcd #2399)

That doesn't change the way the state is managed though. It's a one-party regime, and no number of Republicans showing up to the polls has done anything to even slow down the insanity.

Sure, but it does mean that WhiningCoil's argument that Californians have only themselves to blame is ridiculous.

The insanity has certainly slowed down but it remains to be seen if it's the start of a trend or merely a speedbump.

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