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It has a meaning which does at times resonate quite a bit with Trump though, I’d argue that although he doesn’t fully meet the definition there is a reason it keeps getting applied to him specifically. For example,
Fascists often:
Dismantle the systems of democracy. Trump didn’t do this, I don’t think you can call him a full fascist at this point, but he has tendencies on this point. For many people, including his former vice president, he’s the first US president to try to break the system of transfer of power. Whatever you believe about that situation, he said from the beginning that he’ll consider the electoral process rigged if he loses. And once he did, he loudly and consistently employed a whole host of means to try break the system, trying to get governors to “find votes”, to put up alternative electors, to halt the system of certification, etc. He got his followers so riled up about this that they formed a mob and broke into the US capitol building. These are all definitely tendencies toward the dismantle democracy aspect of fascism, and if you were in a country where someone did try these things, you might pre-emptively call that person a fascist.
Promote ethnonationalism and typically delineate a group of people as an enemy. Trump often takes steps in this directions and then pulls back. Actual ethnonationalists often have a love hate relationship with the guy because he’ll use promising rhetoric and then say something else which is pro x or y ethnicity and which pisses those guys off. But in the end he was elected on the central promise to conduct the greatest mass deportations in American history, and those vibes certainly match what would be expected for historical fascists to say as well.
Use authoritarian state force on internal minority groups. I don’t think he’s done this, kudos. Other people often think he has, “children in cages”, etc. But fascism tends to be crueler than this and less within previously established norms. There are obviously fears around this happening during the mass deportations, but that remains to be seen.
Crush dissent violently. This is often part of the dismantle democracy thing. I don’t think Trump has done this and this would be the biggest American norm to violate in order for a fascist to emerge. I do believe that Trump the man himself has these tendencies that could have emerged in a different context (consider his rhetoric in quotes such as his praise of China’s strength during the Tiananmen massacre, and lamenting that were not strong like that). There are many similar quotes that could be mined to paint a case that he sometimes has somewhat of a fixation on this type of “strength”.
Idealize the military and often use military force in expansionist ways. Trump has sometimes idealized the military in ways that previous American norms have not, e.g. calling for the US to begin doing military parades in the style of China or N Korea. But up until this point he has not shown much tendency to launch any sort of military adventure, much to his credit. (And of course to your point about previous presidents, much to their demerit). Recently he’s been making people edgy on this point, yesterday saying that he would use economic and perhaps military force to annex various territories around the world. Knowing Trump, this is likely his typical “start with the most extreme statement” bluster. But I think it can be pretty clear to understand why for people who think he does have certain fascist tendencies to become concerned when he suddenly starts talking about expansion or annexing territories. We’ll see if he actually is serious about using economic force to try and annex other territories. If so he fits the point about territorial expansionism. If he broke with norms so extremely to threaten Panama with the military in order to take territory from them that would obviously be extremely fascist coded behavior. The whole thing, in the end, shows hints of him breaking with norms that liberal democracies have had in the postwar era. Like in the Helsinki accords, to which the US is signatory; they respect each others sovereignty, they respect territorial boundaries, they do not threaten one another for territory, etc. Breaking these norms is definitely fascist coded, and we’ll see if he continues down that path or if it’s just another passing Trumpism to sit back and enjoy.
Drink water.
Which is to say, that characterizing something that fascists do, even correctly, does that make thing a distinguisher of fascism.
Well there’s not a great definition of fascism, but I do think it’s a valid category that we shouldn’t do away with, nonetheless.
Me too. It should be reserved for believers of "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state".
It should be permissible to use it to say "this movement will lead to a totalitarian state being imposed in which minorities are exterminated in camps."
You, and other leftists, are allowed to make the argument that Trump will impose a totalitarian state in which minorities are exterminated in camps.
You haven't.
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That’s fair.
And do note, I never said Trump was a fascist.
But I get why he gets pattern matched as one.
You might look at what the commenter I responded to said.. “trumps replacement very well could be a fascist.”
You could look at breaking norms in a somewhat fascist coded way while having a cult of personality associated with you as a danger even if the subject himself isn’t likely to declare himself generalissimo.
But to talk about why that might represent a sort of danger you’d need to invoke fascism.
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Do things that have been done in every other system including liberal democracy?
Liberal democracies tend not to do things like for example:
Crush a protest against the leader with authoritarian force, dismantle the system of democratic choice.
If you read my statement, I said that Trump didn’t do either of these things.
But he often does show tendencies toward these things, causing people to pattern match him to them.
Of course, if you are someone who is concerned about fascism, it’s important to pattern match potential fascists before they become actual fascists, so for those people it can be considered a worthwhile exercise.
Point of order: Trudeau and others pretty clearly did the first (crushing the trucker protests) albeit with financial force not physically. I can’t remember if other European countries used water cannons etc.
And moves like Germany constantly flirting with banning the AfD and France’s cordon sanitaire seem like moving in the direction of dismantling democracy, along with the attempted jailing of Trump and the general tendency of lock policy away behind non-democratic quangos, rights and treaties feel quite a lot like dismantling the system of democratic choice.
Growing up, everyone was making a lot of pro-liberalism arguments that basically boil down to the double-edged sword. “If you impinge the liberties of others, what happens when they get into power?” And it feels like in the past decade people have been increasingly willing to test that.
Financial force first, then physical force (trampling them with horses, how Canadian).
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