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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   2731 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for December 27, 2024

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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This is not a fun post, but I need to rant. Fuck you, Apple, and fuck you, Meta.

My wife decided she needed a bigger iPhone and as usual I was the designated data migrator. Given that Apple doesn't want it ever to be as simple as "copy a bunch of stuff from the first phone to the PC, copy the stuff from the PC to the new iPhone" and iTunes backup doesn't actually back up all the data on the Phone I was happy to learn a few phones ago that you can just switch the new iPhone on and painlessly transfer everything via Bluetooth.

Almost everything.

WhatsApp loves the idea of privacy and that's why (unlike Telegram), it doesn't store any of your chat history on its servers. Apple can't or won't transfer it to the new device and you have to do it yourself. And of course, there's no nice buttons like "back everything up into a zip archive" and "restore my chats from a zip archive".

No, you have to either use iCloud (not an option for us, because you can't pay for iCloud in Russia, and it's currently 900% full) or use WhatsApp's built-in transfer option that is fucking hidden in Settings -> Chats and not in Settings -> Data or something sensible like that.

And god forbid you try to log into the account on the new phone first, because that's not how it works, and you have to log out and log in on the old phone again. You have to start the process there, wait until it asks you to log in on the new phone, then scan the QR code on the new phone with the old phone to theoretically start the transfer progress.

I say theoretically because it didn't work for me. I had VPN on on my router, so WhatsApp would freak out and fight me all the way. Wife has VPN on on her old phone for some reason, so I couldn't understand why switching it off on my router didn't work. And there obviously was only one SIM shared between the two phones, so I could use mobile internet to do this.

At one moment I had a bright idea (when we were logged in into WhatsApp on the new phone and couldn't log back in on the old one) to link the old phone as a secondary device on the account. This worked, and I could log back into the account on the old phone, could see the chat history but couldn't transfer it to the new phone. At this moment, I had already fucked up, but didn't know it yet. Because, as I learned 20 minutes later when I managed to log back in on the old phone the proper way, as soon as you unlink a secondary device, WhatsApp erases all its data on it, even if it was there when you linked it. So, without remorse or regret, it erased all chat history on the old phone.

Finally, as the cherry on top, WhatsApp decided the whole logging in and out in two different countries thing was quite fishy and locked the account for 8 hours. I guess we'll try copying one night worth of chat histories tomorrow.

Fuck you, Apple, fuck you, Meta, and fuck your terrible UX.

You forgot "fuck people who made you do use WhatsApp" I remember you writing you had moved out of Russia?

No, I haven't moved out of Russia.

it says "privacy" but as same time on installing asks for permissions to read sms, call history and contacts to "save" user from labor of entering single use token...

It is remarkable how broken all of this really is, here in India you just pay people for this and android is seamless, android to iphone only works if you are willing to pay for it. I have all of my chats backed up on google drive which I bought for my entire family and apple even charges you money for buying that from a fucking iphone. The amount of cocksucking for apple and meta by tech normies is indicative of us being in the ashes.

Well, I can't charge my wife for that, can I?

And yes, Android makes this much easier, if only because the settings menu there is not as braindead as on iOS.

For the future I do hope you can use Google for your backup, being in Russia isn't ideal given the payment issues now.

People making closed-source software that requires connecting to their server (rather than yours or one you choose) hate you and hold you in contempt. Minimize your contact with these parasites as much as possible because they will always eventually try to fuck you. I've gone through that same process with my Matrix/Element chat app and it works a lot better than what you're describing.

Like, how? Some jobs straight require to use whatsapp, and maybe more social media.

Disregard the old man yelling at clouds.

People making closed-source software that requires connecting to their server (rather than yours or one you choose) hate you and hold you in contempt.

Tbf, a lot of apple users deserve to be held in contempt, technology wise. I think it's fine to have a phone that's designed around minimizing user-agency so they can't fuck themselves. All the smart people should just use a different phone.

I like Apple because I pay the manufacturer directly for the product. All the android phones are full of spyware, aren't they? I've never liked the idea of giving Google access to my personal life - I only have an account for work. Even then, I logged into Youtube on my phone once, and Google has never forgotten it. Are there android systems without heavy google integration?

There are still ads and tracking in MacOS and iOS. The only claim is that it's less than Microsoft's and Google's. A difference of degree, not kind. To your other point, GrapheneOS and CalyxOS are options.

I knew that but I hoped the difference would be a large degree since Apple doesn’t make their primary revenue from ads AFAIK. I’ll look into the options you mentioned.

Well, the best chat app or social network is the one with the people you want to communicate with. I tried to switch all my contacts to my Matrix server to mixed results. The upside is that it's a great filter on the people who really want to communicate with me. ;)

because you can't pay for iCloud in Russia

Here's the source of the problem. If you live in an anti-civilization country, don't be surprised some Western civilization things are not working for you. It may be not your personal fault and you may not have another choice, but that's the problem and everything else is downstream from it. Apple and Meta products aren't built to cater for users that live in anti-civilization countries and never will be, and it's not reasonable to expect them to. Your choice is using R-Fon and Vkontakte or suffer what you must.

Amazing, imagine believing the West as it stands is “pro-civilization” at the same time Russia is engaged in the process of actually constructing a civilization-state.

I am not sure what exactly Russia is constructing (a fascist empire would be a good general description but it lacks specific details) but it has very little to do with what we understand as Western civilization, and it is ideologically opposed to it. You can call it "civilization-state" in the meaning of its own, peculiar to that state, civilization which is built on the principles alien to the Western one, and that's exactly my point.

Here's the source of the problem. If you live in an anti-civilization country, don't be surprised some Western civilization things are not working for you.

I don't think this is true at all. The problem here is that Apple doesn't have a reasonable option to transfer everything to a new device locally.

The last few times I've gotten a new Android phone (Pixel), it's come with a USB-C to USB-C cable (with a C-to-A adapter for chargers) and simple instructions to connect 'em directly, unlock the old one, and agree to transfer everything. Admittedly it missed quite a few apps the first time, but the most recent time things almost entirely Just Worked. I think they may have wireless or cloud options there too, but the cable was simple.

Although the security-minded have complained about some of the changes in, specifically, Google Authenticator over the last few years to support this.

Yep, I've had the same thing. There's no reason Apple can't do this, they just choose not to.

Samsung uses the same method.

And the reason they don't because it's only needed when you can't use iCloud, and you can't use iCloud when your country is debanked for starting a war. I don't know how Apple's internal project management works, but I suspect a task "make data migration work if my country is under sanctions" is not very high on the list.

Yes, single player games requiring online connection is just another part of sanctions against Russia. And by the way, if Apple does not have something, this means no sane person would need it at all.

No, the reason they don't is because Apple is a shitty company who tries to lock you into their walled garden as hard as they can. It is mind-bogglingly stupid to use the Internet to transfer data between two physical devices which you have right in front of you. Any sensible person would default to using local wireless (if you insist on no wires), or just connecting a USB cable. This is 100% Apple's fault for doing data transfer in the stupidest way possible.

I bet they work fine in Saudi Arabia, Rwanda and Zimbabwe. America leverages its technology and its economy to destroy its perceived enemies. And it doesn’t give much of a damn what the rest of us in ‘Western civilisation’ think. Although I agree with you that some level of autarky is probably the way forward.

Saudi Arabia (I mean the royal family) are huge friends of Western civilization. That's like their entire survival strategy, has been for decades. They took major part in US-USSR proxy war if Afghanistan, for example (on the US side), and many other projects too. They may have very distinct customs internally, but they never positioned themselves as being in active existential opposition, quite the reverse. As for Rwanda and Zimbabwe, I have no idea what works there and probably nobody cares either.

America leverages its technology and its economy to destroy those it disapproves of.

"Disapproves of" is the big lie here. America may disapprove of a lot of things, but the problems with Russia are way, way beyond "disapproval". That's the country that a) started a hot war in Europe and b) pretty much declared itself as an the eternal strategic enemy of the Western civilization. I think they don't have much platform to complain some Western things are working less than smoothly there. And no, not being able to easily copy information from one American iphone (which you can still buy) to another American iphone (which you can still buy) so that you can use an application created by American company, is not properly described as "being destroyed by America". In no world, in no universe, in no circumstance it is.

it doesn’t give much of a damn what the rest of us in ‘Western civilisation’ think.

Most of Europe, except some folks being directly paid by Russia and some folks who proclaim their love of Russia out of stupid contrarianism, aren't exactly in love with Russia either. Those who border it very much aren't. And, the position in existential opposition to the West is the official Russian doctrine, so there's no matter what Luxembourg really thinks about it, it's what it is.

What puts a big bee in my bonnet is the way American right-wingers casually throw around terms like "anti-civilisation" and "Western civilisation", using them apparently interchangeably with "anti/pro American strategic interests". "Western civilisation" insofar as it means anything was a product of Greek/Roman paganism, Byzantine/European Christendom, German universities, French, Russian, and British thinkers, with America coming in very late in the game.

Saudi Arabia are certainly American allies (and Britain, probably other European countries). That's not the same thing really as being 'pro Western civilisation'. As you note, their internal customs are very different.

[Russia] started a hot war in Europe

That is Western civilisation! In practically its purest form! I'm not just being flippant here: the idea that going to war in Europe is incompatible with being a western civilisation dates exclusively from the end of the second world war and is therefore inseparable from the time when America was undisputed ruler of the globe. Disputing this principle doesn't make you "anti-civilisation" but it does make you an enemy of the American-led global order.

pretty much declared itself as an the eternal strategic enemy of the Western civilization

As above. Putin actually leans into a lot of Christian elements and mythologising about Russia's place in old Europe (and therefore implicitly Russia's place in "Western Civilisation"). It has declared itself an enemy of American-led alliances and global institutions because it feels (correctly in my opinion) that those alliances and institutions were created and maintained with an eye to permanently upholding American global supremacy.

So if we rewrite from "Russia is the enemy of Western civilisation" to "Russia is the enemy of American-led global supremacy", then the question becomes "how much should iPhone, Github etc. functionality be tied to American strategic interests"? And "they shouldn't, they're consumer products or global infrastructure" seems like a perfectly valid answer to me.

Most of Europe, except some folks being directly paid by Russia and some folks who proclaim their love of Russia out of stupid contrarianism, aren't exactly in love with Russia either.

No, and quite rightly. I'm not actually keen on Russia's behaviour myself, all contrarianism aside. But I don't for a moment believe it would make a difference if we were. America is never going to shrug and say, "well, I guess the majority of Western civilisation is okay with this, we're not anti-civilisation so we'll follow your lead". The relationship between America and "Western civilisation" is strictly one way. When Germany didn't commit sufficiently to the anti-Russian alliance by continuing to buy the gas that was maintaining their economy (and thus, again, "Western civilisation") America expressed its disapproval in no uncertain terms. I personally believe they assisted or overlooked Ukraine in destroying the Nord stream pipelines and therefore participated directly in crippling "western civilisation" for the foreseeable future.

using them apparently interchangeably with "anti/pro American strategic interests"

That's nonsense. Having war in the middle of Europe is not German or Polish or British or Spanish or Greek or any other European interest. Russian imperial plans is not "American" problem, it's the problem for everybody who is part of what we call "Western civilization".

That's not the same thing really as being 'pro Western civilisation'.

True. They are allies. That was my point.

Putin actually leans into a lot of Christian elements

Of course, Russia's ideology has always been that they are the "true" Christians and all the non-eastern-orthodox Christians are heretics, and thus taking over Byzantine inheritance and serving as sole protector of the Christian faith is the Russian destiny, thus it's called the "third Rome". Putin invented nothing here, he just reheated the policies of Russian Empire. Of course, this implies inherent conflict with the West, who also considers itself the continuation of Greko-Roman civilization - they are the fakes, and Russia is the true heir, so until they recognize this fact, there can be no peace (though there could be some temporary tactic armistices and alliances, of course).

"Russia is the enemy of American-led global supremacy"

Again, nonsense. Russia is the enemy of the EU as much - likely more - as America. Of course, if you want to go back to the Holy Roman Empire, maybe Russia isn't the enemy of that, but it's the enemy of everything the Western civilization is now, and not just tactically, but strategically - at least until it abandons the "third Rome" ideology, which definitely won't happen while Putin is alive.

I personally believe they assisted or overlooked Ukraine in destroying the Nord stream pipelines and therefore participated directly in crippling "western civilisation" for the foreseeable future.

You can believe whatever you like, but some German politicos being bought by Putin is not really a sign that Europe wants to submit to the glorious Russian empire. Some politicians, sure, would like a share of Gazprom billions, no doubt about it. But those politicians don't represent much beyond their own greed.

Being friendly with Russia is hardly a niche position in Germany. After 3 years of non-stop concerted media propaganda that even US mainstream anti-Trump consensus pales before, current polling still puts parties that are explicitly for leaving the American-led consensus on supporting Ukraine (AfD, BSW) at around 24%; and 41% say financial and weaponry support and 19% say sanctions against Russia are "going too far". Before the war and attendant propaganda, in early 2020, in response to US sanctions, 55% said that Nord Stream 2 should enter operation "no matter what, despite current conflicts with Russia". It looks less like German politicos were bought by Putin and more like Uncle Sam was being too stingy to buy them for once.

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