This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Well, also, certain people come completely unglued if they see an unattended dog. Instantly, they are the hero in a TV drama about a poor abused animal and a diligent, responsible, upstanding citizen who Does Something. There's a sort of sick, compulsive fascination for these people. A sort of thrill at finding themselves in this (generally totally invented) awful dilemma. They crave it. They crave the moral clarity; the excuse to step outside normal boundaries of polite conduct and engage in social or even physical violence (e.g. by breaking a car window).
They enter the situation without context; they address it without wisdom; and when everything has been made much worse they excuse themselves from the consequences by turning responsibility over to the governmental systems which have by this point become involved.
This is probably a metaphor for something.
Ugh. That reminds me of probably the nastiest person I've ever encountered. Back when I owned a dog, I had to stop at the grocery store for an item. I needed only one thing, and it was a cool fall day, so I knew it wouldn't be a problem to leave my dog in the car for a bit. When I came out 5-7 minutes later, I found some lady who started tearing me a new asshole about how stupid I was to leave my dog in the car, how she was just about to call the police, etc. Obviously she was a huge bitch - but the thing which really got under my skin was that she wasn't even right in her assumptions. I truly had been in the store for a short amount of time, and since it was a cool day it wasn't even warm in my car when I got in it. My dog had never been in any sort of danger at all, despite that lady assuming she was.
If nothing else, it was a good lesson in how you don't necessarily know what's going on when you arrive at a scene. I try to remember that lady and her faulty assumptions every time I encounter someone who I feel tempted to judge harshly because I saw them in a situation which looks real bad from the outside.
If I wanted to flirt with dropping inappropriate comments I might suggest that in my experience the people who do this are almost entirely women and male self-identified feminists. It's a type.
What is wrong with being a woman?
Who said anything was?
More options
Context Copy link
The seeming need to render judgement without adequate knowledge of the case. Not sure whether this is actually more prevalent in women, but it does seem that way to me. Assuming that it is the case, have some speculation as to the reason: maybe women suffer less consequences for judging incorrectly, or are better at deflecting when their judgement is pointed out to be false? Or maybe those are just the women I know. They tend to offer wild theories as stone-cold facts when speaking on topics they have barely any information on. When someone points this out, they will either double down on being correct without needing more evidence or escalate into an outright fight because why are you doubting them - or switch the topic immediately, only to get back to the same wild theories sooner or later. These women seem to have no channel for processing disagreement and no capacity whatsoever for epistemic humility, especially once challenged because a challenge can only ever be in bad faith.
Man, have I had some experiences with women lately.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Not actually a warning, but come on man, if you want to say something you think might get modded, prefacing it with "If I wanted to..." is the I'm Not Touching You of forum posting.
Fair enough, though my intent was to be sort of self-effacing by acknowledging that something so offhanded and inflammatory should, legitimately, be expected to have more work put into it. But, also, that additional work didn't actually occur to me as something that would provide additional value, so I went ahead and posted it anyway.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Moral busybodies and savior complexes. Plus, the women know their pussy passes will protect them from getting their shit rocked, and male feminists generally haven’t had experiences in sports or fighting where that has happened so it’s not really in their personal Overton window.
This reminds me of the recent 2XChromosomes thread. The woman OP decided to inject herself into a situation where a drunk guy was (while presumably being insufficiently attractive and sufficiently unattractive) chatting up some chick and then accidentally got into the chick’s Uber before she did, including shoving the guy, then got big mad and the ick because her boyfriend declined to intercede as their white-knight and meatshield. One comment on PurplePillDebate summarized the story something along the lines of “she’s angry that her Pokemon didn’t want to fight.” Naturally, most of the comments side with the woman OP in denouncing the boyfriend, but making sure to clarify it’s not a gendered thing, that it’s because he failed to do the Bare Minimum in being a Decent Human Being.
More options
Context Copy link
There seems to be something to that, yeah. I've noticed that in general, feminists tend to be people who desperately want a righteous cause they can stand up for. The sort of person who deeply admires those who participated in the civil rights movement (or other similar social changes), and wishes that they themselves could be a part of something so grand and heroic. Unfortunately, we're all out of causes like that lately, so instead people often fall into the trap of fighting that hard over insignificant things. Thus, modern feminism. It's plausible to me that you might find such people overrepresented among other types of moral busybodies.
Weirdly enough though, they also seem to be cat people, not dog people.
Yes, but that's true of all ideologues. It's true of me; it's true of rightist militias. It's not the urge that's wrong; it's where you channel it that might be.
(My causes at the moment are civil defence and stopping AI.)
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link