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PaperclipPerfector  14d ago (text post)   28696 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 16, 2024

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I don't think I mind the mythologizing all that much. There were a lot of brave people who helped slaves before and during the civil war, they deserve credit. As long as it's directionally true (Harriet Tubman did actually help slaves), I don't mind her being a stand-in for the credit that they deserve.

What I do object to is attempts to elevate her beyond that, especially in the role of a political leader, which she was not. Andrew Jackson was the President of the United States. He's on our money because we put Presidents on money (And Benjamin Franklin, because he was important in founding the nation). All of the leaders in Civ games are Presidents, Kings, Chiefs, etc: actual historical rulers, because you as the player are making the decisions controlling your nation. Harriet Tubman was not. Every single thing she said could be true and she still wouldn't belong on money or in Civ because, despite being a good person, she wasn't actually a political leader. It's a category error.

All of the leaders in Civ games are Presidents, Kings, Chiefs, etc: actual historical rulers

This used to be true but wasn't for VI. They had more than one leader who was not a ruler, nor even a real leader of their people (like Gandhi could be argued). Catherine de Medici was the leader for France, for example, which was very controversial at the time (and I still think was bullshit that they made her a leader).

He's on our money because we put Presidents on money (And Benjamin Franklin, because he was important in founding the nation).

And Alexander Hamilton, who was also never president.

He was first Secretary of the Treasury, among his other accomplishments, so the connection with US money is clear.

Right, obviously. Just pointing out that Franklin isn’t the only non-president on U.S. currency.

All of the leaders in Civ games are Presidents, Kings, Chiefs, etc: actual historical rulers

Gandhi (Indian leader as far back as Civ 1) wasn't, and as said elsewhere, Civ 2 included a lot of optional leaders that didn't actually lead their countries or actually even exist.

Ultimately the leaders as representation fails to accommodate their specific (a?)historical perculiarities, instead treating the leaders as avatars of national aspects.

In that vein, I still long for a true age of mythology style approach to a 4X game. Use regional gods and regional aspects as socionational representations, and go ham with it. I want Arminius channeling Wodans +10 Black Forest ambush rolls in his rebellion against Bismarck seizing the +6 cultural stability bonus of King Of Franks from Charlemange who needs that bonus in the campaign against Nelsons +4 global naval bonus. That'll be absolute tits and be much richer than the giggles of seeing Gandhi roflstomp Elizabeth.

100% up for this. Preferably with a small lore button on the tooltips so you can read more if interested.

Well, neither was Stalin until 1946.

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