site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 9, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Not sure what's up with the bizarre censorship of God to make it look like a swear word.

Lol, you're going to like the reason. Hint: Early Life

I feel like I've seen plenty of Christians do this too: see gosh or geez for long-standing examples of the practice.

Yeah, but there's a difference between being sanctimonious (or perhaps more charitably, intentionally interpreting 'in vain' so broadly that it covers even the 'positive' expressions, to the point that I'd consider "may gosh bless the United States" to be swearing in reverse, as it were) and noticing that there's a very specific thing/feeling/emotion using "Jesus Christ" (and to a point, "God/oh my God") as an invective or an incredulity uniquely communicates. "Hell" and "goddamn" have the same thing going on to varying lesser degrees but this one's pretty unambiguous.

So if you want to invoke the same expression without doing that directly, you want to use something that sounds like, but isn't, the word everyone else would use to do that. Hence the substitutions in that case.

This is because using the name of God for shock value is a sin. A Christian would not say 'may gosh bless the United States'.

Yes. My parents weren't hardasses. But it was strictly forbidden to use the Lord's name in vain. Discussing God is one thing. Using God's name in a profane manner to call down damnation is something quite different. My parents also forbid "gosh darn" type talk because that's a direct reference to using the Lord's name in vain but pronouncing the words wrong.

I've never seen this when actually talking about God, it's usually for figures of speech that nonseriously invoke God, so as to avoid using the name of God "in vain", which violates one of the Ten Commandments

Can't believe I didn't know that!

I didn't know he was Jewish either, although I suppose I should never be surprised.

-off name implies Slavic country ancestry, as -ov is probably the equivalent of-son but Benioff doesn't sound Slavic.

Also he is a major businessman and Jews are overrepresentated there by more than 10x.

Also…. just look at the guy.