daguerrean
11hr ago
I still don’t understand what mean girl behavior is other than policies you disagree with. I could easily frame any leftist figure as engaging in equally mean girl behaviors from my POV. Obviously ii understand your broader point, if he were literally advocating for the government to start throwing trannies into gas chambers then I agree, the distinction between this and doing violence directly would arguably be quite thin, but I don’t think he was doing this any more than pro-immigration activists are doing White genocide to me, even if I disagree with then
daguerrean
11hr ago
Right, but I think we have a carve out where advocating for harms through government action is acceptable. If my friend advocates the government raise taxes on me by $1000, I should tolerate this civilly, but them advocating for a criminal to mug me and steal $1000 is very different, even if the end result to me is the same.
daguerrean
12hr ago
You started all this by saying “Devil’s Advocate”, so do you really believe it was fair to kill Kirk or is this still just a provocation to prove a point? Because it is sounding like genuine belief
daguerrean
1d ago
Not surprising. If let’s say any physical contact with ICE has a 0.1% chance to turn out deadly by accident, it is most likely that anyone that dies is someone who has rolled those dice many, many times. You see the same with ordinary deaths in police encounters like Floyd
daguerrean
1d ago
I almost always get the exact dead center on these sorts of quizzes, and I did again here. I feel unless you go into the test saying to yourself "I want to get as [BASED/COMMUNIST] as possible!!" it is hard to get anything but centrist. Most of the statements put up for agreement are so absolutist that there is only really one reasonable response.
daguerrean
1d ago
What kind of questions would you be interested in seeing on a survey for Motte users? They can be serious thoughts on political issues, or just any fun random thing you want to know. I will certainly post the results after
Okay, I feel obligated to defend myself. I don't really find anything objectionable in doing things your wife enjoys for the sake of the relationship. It was just that post in particular that gave me a vibe that this man has no agency or convictions while his wife is a shrieking harpy calling the shots in the relationship. The other thing is, he is talking about basically dedicating hours every day of his vacation to standing outside protesting in Minneapolis in January, there is a point where it crosses over from being kind and accommodating to your spouse to being a doormat. You should do things your spouse wants to, but IMO you should also feel comfortable saying "Go by yourself, I don't want to do that." Now granted, my wife doesn't really go out, so the extent of this for me is watching reality shows I don't care for. I usually just go to daguerreotype-related things myself without dragging my wife along. I don't understand why some couple feel the need to do everything together.
I also think protests are a bit different. I think protests are supposed to imply some level of personal conviction that going to a museum doesn't. In that sense a protest is maybe more similar to attending religious services. And going to daily protests in the winter in Minneapolis is like the equivalent of attending years of church services you personally think are BS because your wife likes them.
You know, in one of your linked comments you had a list of 700 questions which I enjoyed, reminds me I've been meaning to make a survey for Motte users which I should post.
daguerrean
2d ago
Democrats seem to get to just ignore immigration laws they don’t like (sanctuary cities), it seems regrettable but reasonable for Republicans to do the same.
daguerrean
2d ago
Venezuelans, some of whom had not been accused of any crime and were in the middle of asylum cases, were deported to El Salvador
I'm not speaking on the legality of this because I don't know and don't care what the current legal situation is. But, this seems perfectly reasonable to me. If their asylum cases had not been resolved in their favor, what makes them entitled to be in the United States? The impression I get from comments like this is that our asylum/refugee system has essentially worked like this: get to the border somehow, say magic words that trigger asylum/refugee case (that you are fed by activist organizations that coach you), get let into the United States with some maybe-in-future court date that might resolve your asylum case years down the line. Until then, you basically have free run of the country and can disappear trivially.
Frankly this system seems absolutely ridiculous. I don't know why we accept asylum seekers at all, there's no reason for it. And the faster we can dismantle this absurd system and start deporting the people abusing it the better.
daguerrean
3d ago
It’s not that egregious IMO, not like you would see Nazi accusations on Reddit. It was just sort of a glib or snarky response to your comment. It didn’t seem overly serious
daguerrean
3d ago
This is a very interesting post as an insight into the protest attending mindset. It is very strange to me, he seems continually befuddled by the extremes of hostility ("To me the yelling and taunting at police was misplaced aggression, and counter productive but it was their town, not mine"/"Somehow capitalism and the general economy have been implicated, although I cannot figure how") but nonetheless attends the protests regardless despite it being not his town. He seems to regard the protesting as mostly a harmless social activity that he groups together with going to record stores and restaurants. I get the sense his wife is basically dragging him to this ("I am not as brave as my wife, who acts from a strain of moral clarity that can sometimes be daunting") and he is playing the role of an agreeable husband that regards this like his wife dragging him to a museum or board game night, so he is happy to go there and shout obscenities for a few hours in between other tourist activities. I know it sounds cliche, but there is just such beta energy radiating off the entire post.
daguerrean
3d ago
Calling the left cucks is an extremely common sexualized insult from the right.
Well a couple of things.
First you listed a number of false positives, people being wrongfully arrested/deported. Any sufficiently large scale operation will have mistakes. If you tried to crack down on disability fraud surely you would end up mistakenly depriving some genuinely deserving people. As you said, the optimal level of crime is not zero, similarly, the optimal level of wrongful convictions/arrests/deportations isn't zero. If you could demonstrate that it was egregiously error-prone then there would be cause for concern. But at the moment I don't trust the media to be objective. Surely the Obama administration occasionally wrongfully detained a legal immigrant but the media wasn't shouting it from the rooftops when it happened.
Regarding the theatricality. Of course there is an element of theater to it, as there is with the protesting. What good does blowing a whistle or shouting "fuck you Nazis" actually do to impede their activities? Basically nothing, it is entirely theater. The theatricality of ICE and the focus on Minneapolis is largely about sending a message loudly, publicly and clearly that "no, blue states do not get to veto federal laws whenever the choose as they have a history of doing." The protestors do theater and ICE does counter theater. We can argue that their theatricality is losing in the court of public opinion, but I appreciated it at least.
daguerrean
3d ago
The amusing thing to me is that there is an unwritten seventh role on which the whole operation depends, "retard who gets shot." If the operation proceeded as written with everyone playing their roles perfectly, nothing would happen. So some women stand on the opposite side of the street from ICE and blow whistles for a while, so what? This whole system only functions when somebody is stupid enough to get shot. Of course, none of the participants know that, least of all the people that get shot, but it is how it works nonetheless.
daguerrean
4d ago
All this is true, but this doesn't excuse the shooting. An analogy would be the classic one feminists hate, woman walks down the street in a bad neighborhood alone at 2AM drunk in a skimpy outfit, gets raped. She was stupid and this was a predictable outcome of her decisions, but that doesn't mean the rapist is suddenly a good person and his actions are excused and he should get off scot-free. Here, the guy was stupid and his actions predictably resulted in his death. However, the evidence certainly seems to point to the ICE agent shooting him in the back when he was already subdued by about 5 agents, his gun was taken and the agent with the gun was already well clear of the scuffle. There is just no excuse for that. Additionally the administration is obviously lying by calling him a domestic terrorist that tried to assassinate law enforcement. This situation feels very clearcut and easy to interpret.
daguerrean
4d ago
There's something very David French about this, but I suppose that's just being Christian, and what makes them such frustrating fellow travelers. I think it's the sense that they would rather lose as long as they satisfy their own personal feelings of being a good person first and foremost. It's like a desire for martyrdom or something, they active want to lose while feeling righteous about their own goodness. Because if your goal is "live in a neighborhood without violent drug addicts", handing out free things to violent drug addicts directly undermines that. With allies like these, who needs enemies? Like, one could very easily donate to some kind of cause that aids the homeless without actively undermining one's own neighborhood. If there were actively violent drug addicts congregating outside my house and I found out my neighbor was giving them free shit I would be just about ready to kill my neighbor.
daguerrean
4d ago
The suspect may have been wanted for assault and was known to be illegal which caused DHS to prioritize deporting him. Why do you assume they delegated the arrest for assault to DHS? He may have been wanted by two separate organizations for different reasons. This seems like the plain reading.
daguerrean
4d ago
Your choice, at the margin, increased such situations.
Indeed. The fact he reacted to a homeless guy sleeping in a park within sight of his house with “Won’t someone think of the poor homeless guy and help him” is exactly why we are in this mess in the first place. We need more people whose first thought is “Ew, get that disgusting bum out of my park” if we are ever to have hope of solving this.
daguerrean
4d ago
I have it on good authority this country was founded on White Supremacy so I think we should do away with such racist traditions
We can see the agent has already disarmed him and is holding the gun in his hand and is walking away, he is several feet away by the time the gunshot goes off. In the video, you can see he looks over his left shoulder when the first shot goes off, not down at the gun in his right hand. Even if he wasn't sure where the sound came from, he would've felt the gun discharge. Furthermore, none of the other agents whip around and look at the guy running away with the gun, which would've been the source of the sound. The overwhelming evidence points to the gunshot being from the ICE agent that had pulled out his gun and pointed it at the guy's back immediately before.
daguerrean
4d ago
Exactly, if the gun went off in his hand even if we wasn't sure where the sound came from he would've felt it. The fact he looks over his shoulder is pretty much proof (as far as I'm concerned) it wasn't the gun in his hand that went off.
Two experiences don't need to be identical in every way to be serving the same basic purpose and impulses. And you know there's the whole "you never step in the same river twice" thing, so it's always possible for motivated persons to say "No these two things really have important differences." For example, it is often said that sports games and sports fandom serve the same impulse as actual tribal warfare. You go to a special place, decked out in your tribe's colors, wearing scary facepaint and you scream and shout and exhort your tribe's warriors to smash the warriors from the other tribe. Obviously we could sit here all day and list differences between actual warfare and football, which of course are numerous and significant, but that doesn't mean that there isn't some real deep similarity here. I think the same could be said for confession and therapy. Of course the differences are numerous, but at a very basic level, you go to a special place you don't visit in every day life and you talk to a special person (not your brother, friend, wife or coworker) where you can let out your deepest, darkest secrets without fear of social consequences, and you come away being told that "it's okay to feel how you're feeling and it's all gonna be okay", although the exact path to being okay might be different (saying some number of prayers vs taking medication vs whatever).
daguerrean
4d ago
and tear out pages that he already read. To lessen his baggage load.
This feels performative in some strange way because at most it could save him the weight of a single book (because when he's done he doesn't have to tear any pages out, just give the book away whole), and most of the time he's only saving the weight of about 50% of pages in a single book. In that way it reminds me of people that slice books in half along the spine when they carry them to read on the NYC subway, also very performative.
I think it is attempting to signal what you said above, like an anti-fetishism, and signal a seriousness about the information within as opposed to the object itself. It also reminds me of the masculine fetishizing of optimization as a sort of ascetic ideal. Like you have hikers bragging about micro-optimizations, shaving grams off their pack weight, or bodybuilders eating nothing but plain boiled chicken. All these things strike me as equally performative for the vast majority of partakers.
daguerrean
5d ago
Gun went off accidentally after he was disarmed
Guy reaches for waistband
I really don't think these things are true, there is basically no evidence for an accidental discharge and the first gunshot happens very shortly after the first ICE agent pulls his gun and puts it up against the guy's back. By then, the agent that had disarmed him has already turned and is heading away, so there is no active struggle over the gun. I think the evidence points towards the ICE agent shooting him much more than an accidental discharge.
I don't see any evidence the guy reached for his waistband, and it's kind of irrelevant anyway because at that point his gun had already been taken and the ICE agent was walking away with it. And assuming the first discharge wasn't accidental, at that point he had already been shot in the back once.
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