If he had just walked up and said "ma'am, can you please get out of the car" none of this would have happened
There is literally no reason to believe this. These lesbians were there specifically to obstruct ICE, there is no reason to think a little politeness will suddenly make them compliant.
I think this was an insanely stressful situation, and she is completely blameless for the actions she took in this video.
She was there specifically to obstruct law enforcement. She ignored their orders to get out of the car. She tried to flee straight through an ICE agent walking directly in front of her car. On what dishonest leftist planet is ANY of this blameless?
It is shocking to me that even on the sacred Motte, of all places, even in the face of incontrovertible video evidence we still have to deal with insane leftist sophistry and blatant lies.
One is reminded of a certain relevant quote:
The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day. Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck. I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying. Gradually I began to hate them.
daguerrean
3hr ago
He obviously didn’t feel she was a threat until she rammed him with her car. Why do you pretend not to understand this? Who do you think you’re convincing with this act?
daguerrean
4hr ago
I don't think the right should be holding the dude up as a hero or anything, either, but the lefty impulse to make martyrs out of their people seems to be irresistible to them.
Personally I don’t think guy is a hero and if I knew him I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he was a violent asshole. However, I think the right has learned something they didn’t know in 2020 with Chauvin. As you said, the left will always defend their own and will happily make heroes out of murderers. They will make sure Weather Underground terrorists get sinecures and support. This woman’s partner will get a massive gofundme. It is time the right does the same, even if the people don’t deserve it. Like the gofundme for that n-word lady (both of them). I expect we will see the right much more vigorously defending this guy, they won’t just let the left destroy him like they did Chauvin, there will probably be a highly successful gofundme as well
daguerrean
6hr ago
Come on, it’s obviously not a troll and he’s linking a video that’s extremely relevant to our discussion. In the rush to post he got one detail wrong, stop the retarded paranoia.
daguerrean
6hr ago
Come on man, surely you’ve seen leftists presenting a story like this: “Lady and her partner were on the way home from dropping off their kid at school. They make a wrong turn and completely accidentally end up in the middle of an ICE operation. Agents begin shouting confusing orders including “turn around.” Lady is panicked, tries to comply and do a 3 point turn, agent deliberately positions himself in front of her car and murders her.”
This is an extraordinarily popular narrative online and this convincingly debunks every one of those points. This isn’t some “two screens” rationalist bullshit, this is like Nicholas Sandmann, there is a straightforward lie and there is the truth.
You can still accept this video and say the shot was unjustified, but to say this doesn’t clarify anything just isn’t true
daguerrean
7hr ago
He doesn’t appear to go down, just the hand holding his phone gets knocked down. This is clearly his phone footage, not bodycam (reflection shows him holding a phone)
daguerrean
7hr ago
It’s a bit confusing, so he is holding the phone in one hand and shoots with the other?
Regardless this completely debunks a few of the more shameful leftist lies I’ve seen.
- She was obviously not just lost on the way home from dropping off her kid, she was there to obstruct.
- There were no conflicting or confusing orders and she wasn’t scared. There was one clear order “get out of the car” before she drives off.
- She wasn’t panicked or scared, she seems cocky.
- She could clearly see the agent in fromt of her car when she drives into him.
- He was not deliberately using his body to block her car, just circling it.
IMO this basically exonerates him 100%
daguerrean
22hr ago
Why is this so complex to people? Would anyone disagree with the following summary?
- She appears to have been trying to hinder/block ICE activities.
- She appears to have been trying to flee when she was shot, not kill ICE agents
- The front of her car contacted the agent that shot her.
- His shots were fired at a point where he personally was not in danger.
- He could have simply stepped out of the way of the car unharmed, as he eventually did.
- Legally the shooting seems defensible if not exactly ironclad given who knows how the politics plays out (see: Chauvin).
Open Questions:
- If he could have stepped out of the way of the car without shooting, is he morally (not legally) obligated to?
- Is it reasonable to expect him to recognize the danger has passed and to stop shooting in the fraction of a second this transpired and her car turned away?
Overall I don’t see the great significance of this case as it seems arguable either way. Even the most ardent anti-ICE types have to admit she was retarded, rammed him with her car and basically is a classic case of FAFO, not some random uninvolved innocent.
Even the most loyal police-supporter must recognize he could’ve easily avoided shooting her with no harm done and she doesn’t exactly deserve to die, making this in some sense a tragedy.
daguerrean
1d ago
Oral and anal should never be done with a woman you love and respect. It is degrading and wrong. If you want your wife to be a whore then you do you, but I wouldn’t want that.
daguerrean
1d ago
my concern is with the inordinate amount of suffering involved in grabbing someone from their home without letting them pack their bags, say goodbye to their neighbors and coworkers, figure out what to do about pets, take a last stroll around the neighborhood that was their home for [X] years, etc. It's the difference between having to move, and having your house burn down.
I seriously do not comprehend this level of bleeding heart. If you sneak into a country illegally it comes with the territory that the life you build there will be precarious and liable to be snatched away at a moment’s notice. If we let people pack up all their possessions and move at their leisure then we are imposing no penalty on them, there would be no deterrence. There should be a degree of fear associated with living in a country illegally, ideally this will make some number self deport.
daguerrean
1d ago
Hypothesis: Some portion of men we (and they themselves) would call gay are not so much gay as hypersexual. If you want to have anonymous bathhouse group sex and gloryholes, men are just your only option. They are more accurately bathhouse-sexual than anything else and the gender of their partners more or less just follows as a consequence.
daguerrean
1d ago
I understand this point of view but this seems to amount to “Just let people flee.” If a cop were trying to arrest someone located in a room, it would seem logical to stand in the doorway blocking exit even though this would mean a charge towards the doorway becomes the same as a charge towards the cop. The alternative seems absurd, that cops are obligated to never corner a suspect and always leave an easy and unobstructed path of escape. In my example, is a cop obligated to politely stand aside from the door so as to not escalate? That seems absurd.
Kind of shocking, how does a young mother decide to try to use her car to block ICE? Do these people have no sense these are dangerous activities?
It’s kind of interesting to me that the last story I remember hearing about an ICE shooting was also a woman (who survived). Why are women doing this? Do they have some sense of invincibility?
daguerrean
2d ago
I think it may be significant this follows so closely on the Somali daycare scandal. Minnesota Democrats have every incentive to blow this up as big as possible to distract from that, so I see major incentives for escalation here.
daguerrean
2d ago
This rule is consistently the most confusing one to me. Everything sulla says comes with the implicit qualifier “so thinks sulla.” Why is using “we” so offensive, obviously sulla is referring to those that agree with him. He never said anything like “All of the motte agrees leftists are retarded.”
daguerrean
2d ago
The claim that the victim was trying to run an agent over is not only not true, video footage clearly shows that it isn't. That won't stop DHS from lying (again) and claiming that ICE agents were victims instead of perpetrators (again). It's thoroughly unclear why they were trying to stop this woman in the first place
It appears she had parked her car perpendicularly on a small road, presumably to block or otherwise obstruct ICE activity, this being the cause of their apprehending her, which seems legitimate to me.
I will agree she was most likely not specifically trying to run over ICE agents, but rather to flee. However there was an agent on the hood of her car that she certainly did hit.
daguerrean
2d ago
If you tell people that they are traumatized they will feel traumatized. It is a tempting framework with which to interpret the world because it grants unlimited unverifiable victimhood, which is the most coveted status of all for whatever reason.
I remember once I was talking to two nice, young, Mormon missionaries out of curiosity. I asked them what spiritual experiences they had which convinced them of their religion’s truth. One described to me that in high school she was in danger of failing her physics class right before the final exam. She prayed about it and felt an intuition that she should go to the professor and ask him for any extra prep materials, she interpreted this intuition as the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Upon visiting him he supplied her with some additional practice tests which she credited with helping her pass the class.
What she had was a normal human experience, 1) Not doing well in the class 2) Ask the teacher for additional assistance 3) Do better. An atheist would have this exact same experience without the Holy Spirit factoring in at all. But as they say, when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail. When you are given an explanatory framework with which to understand the world, unsurprisingly you find confirming experiences everywhere you go.
Years ago at my first job my manager, an Indian woman, came to me and said in hushed tones “You know Daguerrean, this company has a real problem with recognizing women.” She went on to describe a slate of thoroughly normal complaints that every employee can empathize with, feeling underappreciated, her good ideas and hard work unrecognized, ignored in meetings and so forth. I mumbled something in agreement with her but internally I was thinking, “Uh, don’t you know everyone feels this way?” It’s just that White men aren’t given a framework that says every personal or professional setback is a result of an omnipresent and malicious “ism” seeking to destroy your life.
It reminds me of a TikTok trend, now a few years back, where parents would pretend to bump a baby’s head and fawn over it. Unsurprisingly the babies would often react as if they were experiencing real pain, crying and holding their heads. Adults are no different.
I think we aren’t (collectively) asking ourselves enough if the explanatory frameworks we give people are actually good. Is it better for people to believe that anything good that happens to them is the work of the Holy Spirit? Is it good if every professional setback is interpreted as evidence of racism/sexism? Is it good if people are reinterpreting every negative childhood experience as trauma that has scarred them for life?
daguerrean
2d ago
I’m pretty sure SomethingAwful is still active and has been around for at least 20 years, maybe 25
daguerrean
3d ago
How long do you think The Motte will continue? Will we still be here in thirty years?
daguerrean
3d ago
The number one complaint I hear from women about porn is that it gives men a very confused, one-sided view of sex. You could imagine how irritating it is to hear that men spend 30 minutes a day jerking off to porn for decades and then one of them finally gets to fuck you and has no idea how to bring you to orgasm and you leave the experience totally unsatisfied. Consistently!
Women will complain about porn but these reasons are largely post-hoc fictions. They have a gut-level aversion to their partner experiencing lust towards other women that are typically younger and better-looking than them. But because of their vague sex-positive pop feminist beliefs they don’t know how to articulate that and will backfill a reason that sounds less jealous and more socially acceptable.
You would see the same if they found their partner was having sex with dogs. This would greatly upset them but they would state the reason is something to do with animals being unable to consent, which of course is not the real reason.
daguerrean
3d ago
I think Sabrina Carpenter is an interesting case study here. Her music is ridiculously sexually explicit, she performs in lingerie and a core part of her act is miming heterosexual sex positions. That said, I get the sense her audience/fanbase is approximately 0% heterosexual male. It gives me the same vibe as burlesque, which seems to be a major form of entertainment for blue tribe women in major cities yet has zero sexual currency with hetero men. Burlesque performances will include lingerie and actual nudity from women, but I don’t get the sense any straight men are watching burlesque compilations on pornhub.
This is something I’ve been thinking about lately, but I feel burlesque is sort of spiritually akin to male war reenactors. They are both reenacting the past to give themselves gender valdiating experiences, men getting to pretend to experience heroism and self-sacrifice in combat, frumpy feminists getting to experience a reenactment of sexual desirability
daguerrean
3d ago
What percentage of college-educated middle-class women are on dating apps anyway?
I’m going to guess the vast majority, this is just how people meet now, it’s how I met my wife ten years ago. And every year women become more conditioned to find cold approaches at markets or bookstores more creepy and less acceptable
daguerrean
3d ago
I prefer Rutters, they just seem a bit nicer imo
daguerrean
4d ago
If I wished to try to insult you, off the top of my head there could have been the low hanging fruit of deploying impolite synonyms for “poor” and “overweight”—or, more softly, those words in themselves—for poor and overweight are descriptions of which you’ve recounted yourself
Just beautiful apophasis. You absolutely cooked em here. HereAndGone is not recovering from this any time soon. I’m in awe of your mastery Sloot
Okay, my apologies. I acknowledge my comment was over the top. However, in my defense, I think there is a point where blatant dishonesty is more corrosive to this forum’s norms of charitable good-faith discourse than any number of nasty words. Take LiberalRetvrn downthread spewing stuff like this:
This is such a flagrant and deliberate mischaracterization of video that all of us can see that it degrades the norms of discussion here and is exactly what the Mein Kampf quote was directed at. I will clean up my act but for the sake of discussion I implore you to moderate blatant dishonesty.
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