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My sister-in-law is a PA, and I'm friends with several others. I have no idea what you mean from the suggestion that PA's have lower status than any of these other people. Maybe because some people confuse them with medical assistants, but people who don't know the difference aren't among those whose opinions I care about. A lot of them end up being PAs not because they couldn't cut it as doctors, but because doctors themselves warned them against med school. The option is going to school for 4 years after college, spend another 4 years working ridiculous hours for poverty wages, and finally get to be a real doctor some time in your 30s. At this point you're in so much debt that the higher salary only allows for the kind of lifestyle a normal college grad would have, not that it matters anyway, because you're still spending all your time at work.
And who is exactly looking down on PAs anyway? I'm a lawyer. I don't know what you do exactly, except that it's in finance, but unless you're in senior management I'm going to go ahead and pull rank here. I don't sit in some sad fucking cubicle or worse, some trendy-looking open office. I have a private office—an actual private one, not one of those manager offices with the window or frosted glass door that's expected to be open unless you're on the phone or discussing something sensitive—that's almost large enough to include a sofa and has sports memorabilia and custom photo prints on the walls and a large picture window with a view of a forest. I have my own secretary, and an army of paralegals will stop what they're doing if they're needed. If I need something printed I call someone else and have them bring it to me. I get printouts of most things because my work space cannot be limited to two screens. I have a bookshelf full of binders I prepare for each case (I'd have someone do this for me, but I don't trust them to not fuck it up). I have people send emails on my behalf, and people stop by my office with stuff for me to sign. I don't do anything that could be conceivably described as "real work". 90% of my job is drafting informal memos that aren't assigned by a superior or even directed to anyone in particular but are simply placed in the file for my own edification and so there's a record of my thoughts in case another attorney needs to look at the case. Most of my actual time is spent looking through documents and pacing my office thinking about things so I can make a decision. The only supervision I deal with is case assignments and who is covering depositions and court appearances, if there's a scheduling issue there. I don't deal with project managers assigning me work and emailing me every five minutes.
Beyond work, I live in a 3-bedroom house in an upscale area that's filled with toys I use on the weekends pursuing expensive hobbies. So please tell me who exactly I'm supposed to be looking down on. A guy who runs a crane in a steel mill? A video editor? The owner of a dog grooming business? A low-level financial analyst for a large company? A schoolteacher? A mechanical engineer? An audiologist? A registered nurse? A college professor? An accountant who does asset valuations? The guy you call before you dig? A middle manager for the IRS? The guy who works for a large bank who's described his job to me several times and I still don't know what he does? These are all friends of mine, and I could go on, but this gives you an idea of what my social circle looks like. There are no doctors or lawyers I regularly see socially, though my cousin is a Worker's Compensation attorney. I don't know anyone, even among lawyers, who engages in the kind of ostentatious spending that's meant to signal status. I know people who are really into things like craft beer, but that doesn't correlate with income. I personally drink High Life and Coors Banquet as my regular quash. I don't think PAs are below me. And I'm not one of those unrealistic egalitarians who think that I'm everyone's equal; I wouldn't date a girl who worked at McDonalds (or, realistically, one who didn't have a professional job), but that's about as far as it goes for most people. I don't ask what people do for a living before I decide if I'm going to be friends with them.
There are no gradations of lawyers in the US. Once you pass the bar you're allowed to handle anything any client is willing to give you. You might not exactly be qualified to do so, but all the ethical canons say about that is that you have to familiarize yourself with the relevant law. Medicine, by contrast, has actual board certified specialties that require specific training.
you can, and maybe should, purchase more than two large monitors
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It would be easier and better for your psyche if, instead of getting upset at the idea of PAs having less status than doctors, you just dropped the stigma you currently associate with the working class.
The anonymity of the internet equalises the doctor, the cashier and the executive - online all their opinions are considered equally merited. And this has mostly wonderful effects imo, but one negative is that the wealthy express their opinions on working class jobs the way they think about them - calling them worthless jobs or saying the only people fit to push a broom or work at a supermarket are 70 iq or they're jobs for drug addicts - and they're right to an extent, they aren't as skilled as professional work, and don't require as much discipline or intelligence, and can indeed be performed by drug addicts (just like medicine and corpo blah blah blah).
But this has given the zeitgeist the impression that these jobs are worthless and as a result nobody wants to do them any more. They don't take pride in doing them and resent them. And so you get passive aggression at the deli and half missing fast food delivered cold, and people getting ticked off when their respectable friends are labelled working class. But there is plenty of pride in doing any job well and more importantly there is no shame in it. A janitor who takes pride in doing his job well is infinitely more respectable than a doctor who reads webmd at people in between smoke breaks.
Who cares if Rafa or I think your sister in law isn't in the same league as a doctor? You know her, is she the kind of person to fuck over someone's life through ignorance or is she going to do her best at all times? It's that spirit that is admirable, not her position in the pecking order.
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You are in Pittsburgh, right?
It’s different in NYC in that my social circle is much more lawyer heavy. With that said, a lot of them don’t look down on other professions as much complain about the lawyer profession.
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I mean we (being doctors) mostly hate NPs and PAs unless we are benefiting from them financially.
They have very limited training (in the case of NPs excruciatingly limited) and yet think they have the same level of knowledge and expertise.
All of us have lost patients are seen catastrophic avoidable outcomes.
And they can't be sued in the way we can.
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I definitely agree that people don't, as a rule, look down on PAs/RNs/NPs. I seem to recall @2rafa lives in the UK, maybe this is a British thing? British people do have a reputation for being incredible snobs.
I am genuinely envious. Once upon a time such a thing was able to be found in the tech industry, but sadly those days are long gone. The only private office I'll ever have is when full time WFH.
Status is a thing outside of the UK, perhaps 2rafa was guilty of miswording it. Think about it like this, if you're introducing a potential spouse to your family, what would come off better? "He/She is a doctor" or "He/She is a nurse practitioner"? I don't think it's building consensus to state that everyone would agree on the first option.
I don't personally know anyone in the US who would care.
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Right, and this is crucially true even if they do the same work for the same pay.
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My only experience with a NP was getting misdiagnosed with asthma when I had whooping cough. The actual doctor (when I did see her) diagnosed me correctly in about a second. Prior to that I didn't really know what a nurse practitioner was.
I certainly agree that the doctors' cartel (the British Medical Association) are a gang of scoundrels though. The UK has a chronic shortage of doctors and a chronic oversupply of students who want to be, and are smart enough to be doctors. But the BMA artificially limits places at medical schools to keep their wages up, leaving the UK reliant on imported doctors who are objectively worse (with no disrespect to @selfmadehuman, I'm sure you're great).
The situation in the UK is as bad, indeed worse because of immigration as you say. The native (and 2nd/3rd generation immigrant) doctors who run the BMA and the colleges limit places because they know that almost all senior jobs in hospital trusts and places in elite surgical specialties will go to British-trained doctors because of networking and because they interview better than ESLs, and want to limit their number, forcing the NHS (as you say) to hire incompetents from abroad.
It’s got to the point where literally every elderly relative I have left can tell a horror story about their treatment at the hands of the NHS. I wouldn’t go to the NHS for a serious problem if you paid me.
For some things iirc you have no choice, even in London, because the private capacity just isn’t really there and they’ll just refer you back to the private ward of an NHS hospital.
And I don’t think ambulances will take you to a private hospital, though I might be wrong.
There is no such thing as a private emergency department / A&E in the UK, there are a couple of hospitals like the Princess Grace and St John and Liz that have urgent care (mostly only from 9am to 7pm and not usually on holidays) but it’s only for ‘non life threatening’ stuff and if you rock up and it’s bad they’ll immediately call an ambulance to take you to an NHS A&E.
That said if you need inpatient treatment you can get out on the private wing of an NHS hospital as soon as you’re out of intensive care (if necessary) which is much nicer.
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Cool comment (seriously).
In your opinion what is the area of law that is at the optimization frontier for raw compensation and intellectual gratification? I have friends who do legal advisory work for the big banks, and they make crazy money, but they kind of hate everything. On the other hand, I know a guy from church who does small to medium local business law, fucking LOVES it, and makes more than enough money (though not Christmas-in-Aspen money). I have an older family friend who spent her whole career in family law and is now emotionally broken and sorta-kinda broke financially.
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Oh! Oh! What kind of toys?
Various marital aids, I presume.
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