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PaperclipPerfector  2mo ago (text post)   29337 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 19, 2024

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otherwise you sweep floors or fold boxes at the Gwangyang Steel Works until you die.

I know this is indeed the root of the problem, but if this is indeed the social reality, it's baffling how a society can end up with norms such as this.

This sort of norm can only be sustained when there is plenty of human potential to waste in the first place. So it causing low fertility is probably a feature, not a bug: if success above the very lowest level is a high-cost tournament, there's probably too many people.

I'm not sure that really explains the phenomenon. Singapore has much higher population density than Korea, but parental investment seems much smaller. It's also not clear why there should be so much human potential to waste, especially in the era of globalization.

The TFR in Singapore and South Korea are roughly equal though.

Singapore is like 40% higher.

I've seen worldwide data online 5-10 years ago. Singapore was shown with the lowest TFR in the entire world while S Korea was the 3rd lowest or so, tied with Hongkong and Taiwan, roughly.

That was true 5-10 years ago and is no longer true.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/children-per-woman-un?tab=chart&time=2002..latest&country=SGPKORTWNMACHKG

Thanks. I checked the graphs. Am I supposed to see a big difference between the TFRs of SK and Singapore? Because I don't.

Perhaps Singapore's economic system can just use more people (proportionally) at those higher levels of achievement.

South Korea is very prosperous, though. The competitiveness doesn’t seem to match other developed countries with similar income rates, it’s not like in Britain or Germany people have to win an insane rat race or be Amazon warehouse workers.

All the OK-paying middle class jobs that pay just fine in every developed country exist in South Korea, and wealth inequality is average. It’s not India where life outside the top 5% sucks. The focus on the elite rat race is bizarre. The US has niche credentialist PMC status games for medicine or finance or big law or academia, but they are way outside of the life experience of most Americans.

South Korea is very prosperous, though.

Not compared to Singapore, Britain, or Germany. My thought about Korea (and Japan, which has a somewhat similar system) is it just isn't dynamic enough to accept more people at higher levels. If Samsung/LG/Daewoo/Hyundai can only use N such people each year, persons N+1 on through infinity are going to be sweeping floors.

It just doesn’t track with lower inequality levels compared to most Western countries in Korea and Japan though. There isn’t a tiny elite who pass the meritocracy test and go to elite colleges who are making tons of money while everyone else is poor (like in India with the IIT system), that’s not the distribution in these places.

No, South Korea has a tiny elite which makes lots of money (without passing any test), then a small group which passes the meritocracy test to make upper-ish middle-class income. Inequality levels are lower than the US because there are fewer and poorer rich, not a larger middle class. A Tesla software engineer in the US is proportionally poorer than Elon Musk than a Samsung software engineer in S. Korea is than Lee Jae-yong, but the Tesla software engineer is far better off.

There are no percentiles here so I feel like this is a hard thing to challenge. My point is that there are plenty of people in the 40-80th percentile in South Korea who make enough money to live a comfortable-enough first-world lifestyle that is materially not significantly less comfortable than the middle class in peer nations. It’s not some Slumdog Millionaire thing where you get once chance or you live a life of miserable, grinding poverty digging ditches.

Uh, isn’t South Korea at basically-western-European levels of prosperity? Like there’s no reason life can’t be perfectly decent for people who aren’t 90th percentile.

They have the same GDP per capita as Spain, or 66% of the UK.

In PPP terms they're about equal to the UK though, so I guess it depends on what you think about nominal GDP Vs PPP, as well as maybe GDP per capita per hours worked.

So they’re about at the EU average, which means that barring extreme inequality they’re probably a pretty nice place for the average person to live. They don’t have to have the rat race.

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