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PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   37971 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 8, 2024

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What’s the big actual object level disagreement between the reds and the blues here? In the 1800s the country was divided over slavery. Now it really seems like a bunch of tiny object level issues plus a big aesthetic one, and nobody is going to have a civil war over aesthetics.

What’s the big actual object level disagreement between the reds and the blues here?

The proper way to live and the ordering of society.

(More practically, most Americans are way too comfortable (and in many cases, literally too fat) for anything like an actual civil war. Something like the Troubles is more likely, though even that I find doubtful, if for no other reason than the most dedicated Reds and Blues live in different places)

The troubles came about in large part because of incomplete state control due to marginalization of the Catholic population. We don't have that, and not only because Catholics are just normies and not an identifiable tribe.

The red tribe isn't welcome in the higher academy, but generally considers itself to be treated fairly by the police and mostly in the labor market. The red tribe mostly has a higher standard of living than the blue tribe at the same point at the socioeconomic ladder(granted there are proportionately more red tribers at a lower spot on the socioeconomic ladder- but the red tribe mostly understands full well that the blues kick their lowest performing members out of good standing and the reds don't. You basically need a college degree to be a full member of the blue tribe and you just need to 'want to work' to be accepted in the red tribe). These are not the conditions that result in actual or perceived marginalization which pares back state control, even if we leave out who the cops are.

As a general principle, if enough people consider the "aesthetics" important, it is becomes a cause, which is important for recruitment. Causes attract the real object-level issues, and object-level questions (economic or otherwise) may attach themselves to aesthetic causes. Or find themselves attached; sometimes the aesthetics may take the driver's seat.

I agree chances of classical civil war is quite low. There is still possibility of other forms of super-unfun-bad-times, though. (The Troubles. Italian years of lead.)

Takers versus Makers, and ethnic conflict. The blues are really more like the browns and yellows.

Certainly by the time the civil war goes got, it will be an ethnic conflict between all the foreigners imported in the last half century against those already present.

Who are the "takers"? Both tribes would contend that their own are valuable hard workers and the other side are parasites taking more value than they contribute.

The takers are public sector unions, HR and DEI, management and bureaucracy in general.

Would they? They talk a lot about being the ones to "equitably distribute" value to people according to their needs, not producing it. Like I worked in the nonprofit sector for years, nobody ever talked proudly about creating value.

Working in academia, the predominant perspective is closer to saying that everything of value is produced by the blue tribe anyway, so they should have the right to choose how the surplus is redistributed as well.

Yes, that's the sort of thing, but in our case nobody even thought about where all the grant money came from. It was just "our due"

Couldn't that just be because "creating value" is not a general blue-tribe value? They could believe that all value is produced by their tribe without particularly feeling compelled to brag about it or try to claim personal credit for part of the process.

I don't see any indication that this is the case, however. Even though I'm sure that we've ended up importing more gang members than I feel comfortable with, overall violence and law-abidingness among immigrants is still way at least a good chunk lower than for born-Americans. I just don't see the ingredients right now or for the next two decades in place for this kind of large-scale ethnic violence to happen.

And speaking as someone who lived in Miami for a while... man, the United States cultural assimilation process is fucking fast, it's insane. At least for most immigrants. I saw kids who spent all of 4 years in country and they already were hardly distinguishable on their own from kids who grew up in the same city the whole time and actively despised and avoided speaking Spanish (which was a shame, in my opinion).

Even though I'm sure that we've ended up importing more gang members than I feel comfortable with, overall violence and law-abidingness among immigrants is still way at least a good chunk lower than for born-Americans.

There is no way at all this is true if you control for race. Certain segments of our population commit a ton of violent crime. Most do not.

Which ones are the Makers, though? Quick googling shows there's no clear mapping of donor and recipient states to their political affiliation.

Quick googling shows there's no clear mapping of donor and recipient states to their political affiliation.

This is partly because of things like counting retirees and government contractors the same as welfare recipients.

Retirees are welfare recipients.

Depends on your perspective. If you NPV their fica payments and benefits, maybe it’s just a small tax refund.

And significant black, Hispanic, and Native American populations in otherwise red states like the deep south, the Dakotas, Alaska, etc.

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